From: "Bruce Detter" <bruce.detter@lmco.com>
Subject: Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java
Date: 1999/01/18
Date: 1999-01-18T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <780j6i$7522@svlss.lmms.lmco.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 36a32a9d.12623551@news.demon.co.uk
Sorry about that.... I did oversimplify my thoughts and you caught some of
my "gaps". Let me state right up front, PM cannot possibly work (be
anything other than a paperpushing nightmare) without the SW engineers
"buying into" the plan. In my mind (dangerous territory) PM is a tool to
help the engineer focus on the job at hand if properly used. I think my
concept of PM is very close to your 'inverse management hierarchy' idea in
that the management plan is developed and agreed to by the engineers
involved.
There should be some means of keeping the HW/SW engineers on the same page
rather than the engineer developing in isolation only to find out in code
review they were "off base". I believe development tools are now available
to minimize the intrusion to the engineer, let the engineers coopertatively
manage their own project, and permit management to see what the progress and
activities are without bothering the engineers.
Getting a little wordy here, so the upshot is more teamwork/cooperation from
management down, less "us vs. them" attitude.
BCD3
John Birch wrote in message <36a32a9d.12623551@news.demon.co.uk>...
>On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:35:43 -0800, "Bruce Detter"
><bruce.detter@lmco.com> wrote:
>
>>This thread seems to have generated a lot of interest (and a lot of
>>interesting and informative reading).
>
>Indeed
>
>>I think your question misses the real issue for a project such as yours.
>>Project management is far more important than the tool you chose for
>>implementation. Programmers and languages come and go (you may have to
>>integrate current code with new code in some as yet unspecified language
>>with personnel who never worked on the current code). But if the project
is
>>properly managed (all documentation maintained, coding styles enforced,
>>programmers and engineers kept current on training, etc.) then the choice
of
>>languages is of secondary importance.
>
>Well.... <counting to ten>
>
>This is a bit like saying it doesn't matter if you build a bridge from
>wood, steel or glass as long as the project manager is good!
>While project management may be of great importance on a large
>project, the number of good project managers (to bad ones) is probably
>in the same ratio as _you_ put good C++ programmers. Your paragraph
>sounds a bit like an advocation of the 'straight jacket' approach to
>projects, i.e. keep the programmers in their place we'll tell them
>what's good for them.
>
>Whilst documentation is fine, enforcement of coding standards is a
>very emotive issue. If we're simply talking about commenting and
>header blocks then I have little argument, but in many shops - coding
>style is taken a lot further than that.
>
>BTW I'm all for training too.
>
>But... the most critical part to the success of any large project is a
>good design, that is well understood, abstracted into several layers
>so that management, projects and engineering staff can see the level
>of detail they require. Now part of realising a good design is
>choosing the appropriate tools for the job. This includes the
>methodology used, the testing strategy, the design notation, and the
>language (not an exhaustive list by any means). Just having the right
>person to monitor progress and facilitate comunication between client,
>management and workers will not make a damm's worth of difference in a
>project that does not have a sound technological basis.
>
>BTW if you anticipate a high degree of 'churn' amongst the developers,
>perhaps that should tell you something about the development strategy.
>IMHO people leave companies because they disagree with something
>(their managers, the design, the salary or the conditions). It's
>actually quite hard to get rid of a well motivated developer working
>on a project which he believes in!
>
>>That being said, I think your choices are between Ada, C++, and Java.
>
>Wow, insight here, I think this was the original question; which
>langauge should I choose from Ada C++ and Java ;-)
>
><snip>
>
>> C++ has the largest pool of programmers, but 'real' C++ OO programmers
are fairly rare.
>
>Agreed
>
>> Unfortunately, far too many
>>'C++' programmers are just enhanced C coders with minimal OO
understanding.
>
>More accurately, most of them have no knowledge of C and minimal OO
>understanding :-)
>
>>Java, as an embedded system development environment, is still in its
infancy
>>(As is Windows CE, not to be compared to VxWorks).
>>I believe project management and the architecture development tools
>>(Rational Rose, ObjectTime, etc.) you choose are more critical than the
>>language(s) you choose.
>
>You're not by any chance a project manager are you?
>
>>I also believe that one common language is not
>>always the best solution. Determine what your objectives are, then choose
a
>>tool or resource that can best fulfil each objective. A short term cost
hit
>>on more resources and tools up front can mean long term savings (but be
>>smart about it, know why you're spending the extra money/time)
>
>Oh I see from your sig that you're not, so I don't understand why you
>think the language choice is unimportant. In a C++ shop, choosing Ada
>could result in a rapid lack of staff ;-). OTOH choosing Java for a
>mission critical, hard real-time embedded application could be a RW
>disaster too! Or are you saying that by choosing the right project
>manager / methodology this would not happen?
>
>I'm trying (and probably failing miserably) not to be too anti PM, but
>all my experience to date has been that PM's make effective fire
>starters, but are very poor at putting them out (a job they generally
>leave for engineers ;-) Besides from your first paragraph I get the
>impression that the PM should control the project rather than assist
>it. I personally favour the 'inverse management hierarchy' ideas of
>project control. I.e. the Software / Hardware engineers produce the
>goods for the client, everybody else in the company should be working
>to help them!
>
>Forgive me if this posting appears somewhat inflammatory, but your
>first para really got my dander up.
>
>
>
>regards John B.
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1999-01-18 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 450+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1999-01-12 0:00 Ada vs C++ vs Java Leszek Sczaniecki
1999-01-13 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Erik Funkenbusch
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14 0:00 ` John Woodruff
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Marc A. Criley
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Ralph Cook
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Erik Funkenbusch
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Bob Munck
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Dave Whipp
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Peter
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Corvus
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Gerhard Menzl
1999-01-14 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Pat Rogers
1999-01-16 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Pat Rogers
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Ell
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-19 0:00 ` adam
1999-01-18 0:00 ` kevin
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Mike Coffin
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-21 0:00 ` adam
1999-01-23 0:00 ` Simon Wright
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein
1999-01-19 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Lieven Marchand
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-22 0:00 ` adam
1999-01-23 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-24 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-01 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-02-01 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-02-02 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-19 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-21 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-24 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-24 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-25 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-25 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Joe Gwinn
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Instruction Set Semantics Nick Roberts
1999-01-28 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Scott Johnson
1999-01-28 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-17 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-04 0:00 ` mll
1999-02-04 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-04 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-02-04 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-05 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-02-04 0:00 ` Hyman Rosen
1999-02-05 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-05 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-05 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-05 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-06 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-06 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-08 0:00 ` dennison
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-02-08 0:00 ` William Clodius
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Matt Austern
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-06 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-02-06 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-02-08 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09 0:00 ` atomly
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-09 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-10 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-10 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-02-12 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10 0:00 ` nabbasi
1999-02-12 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-10 0:00 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
1999-02-11 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-12 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-13 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-02-15 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-15 0:00 ` P.S. Norby
1999-02-16 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
[not found] ` <79fnce$iv8@drn.newsguy.c <36beecef.70d8ed5e@pwfl.com>
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-07 0:00 ` James S. Rogers
1999-02-07 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-07 0:00 ` James S. Rogers
1999-02-07 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-07 0:00 ` atomly
1999-02-08 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Dan Nagle
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Pascal Obry
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-07 0:00 ` Simon Wright
1999-02-09 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-09 0:00 ` nabbasi
1999-02-08 0:00 ` robert_dewar
[not found] ` <79 <36BF2098.11E0761B@erols.com>
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1999-02-09 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
[not found] ` <79k65l$s0t@drn.news <36c006b8.fc6c187d@acenet.com.au>
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-02-05 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Fredric L. Rice
1999-02-05 0:00 ` Richard D Riehle
1999-02-05 0:00 ` Stephen Leake
1999-02-06 0:00 ` Michael Stark
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Stanley Friesen [Contractor]
1999-02-12 0:00 ` Michael Stark
1999-02-06 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1999-02-08 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-09 0:00 ` dennison
1999-02-09 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-02-06 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-05 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-08 0:00 ` Stanley Friesen [Contractor]
1999-02-08 0:00 ` mike
1999-02-09 0:00 ` P.S. Norby
1999-02-09 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1999-02-05 0:00 ` Andrew Koenig
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1999-01-16 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Wolfgang Denk
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Herman
1999-01-15 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-25 0:00 ` Real-time dyn allctn (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-01-25 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-28 0:00 ` dmitrik
1999-01-29 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-25 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-27 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-25 0:00 ` Niklas Holsti
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java John Birch
1999-01-15 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-16 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-17 0:00 ` phil
1999-01-17 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Dynamic memory? (was Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-18 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` news.oxy.com
1999-01-25 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-26 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Laurent Safa
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1999-01-19 0:00 ` bourguet
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Georg Bauhaus
1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Stanley Friesen [Contractor]
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java James Kanze
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-18 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Gerhard Menzl
1999-01-15 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Draconian coding standards (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-19 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Simon Wright
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Bob Munck
1999-01-19 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Aidan Skinner
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Crazy Pete
1999-01-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Judah Diament
1999-01-16 0:00 ` bill
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Dennis
1999-01-17 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-17 0:00 ` bill
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Enforcement of coding standards (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-01-26 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Judah Diament
1999-01-18 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Crazy Pete
1999-01-19 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Christopher Browne
1999-01-19 0:00 ` bill
1999-01-20 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-20 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-21 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-21 0:00 ` bourguet
1999-01-20 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-21 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
[not found] ` <m3g194bhzh.fsf@fred.muc.de>
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Stephen Leake
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-21 0:00 ` bill_1
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Ada mode requests (Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java) dennison
1999-01-22 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-22 0:00 ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-01-24 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-28 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-29 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-29 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-29 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-30 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-30 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-25 0:00 ` John McCabe
[not found] ` <36afc1ec.20165240@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-26 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-27 0:00 ` dennison
[not found] ` <36b019e5.897220@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-28 0:00 ` John McCabe
[not found] ` <36b170cd.1793333@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-29 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-29 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-29 0:00 ` Samuel Tardieu
1999-01-30 0:00 ` John McCabe
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-22 0:00 ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-01-24 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-22 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java bill_1
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-23 0:00 ` Simon Wright
1999-01-23 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-24 0:00 ` Simon Wright
1999-01-24 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-24 0:00 ` dewar
[not found] ` <36af43e6.7584350@news.geccs.gecm.com>
[not found] ` <36b04b91.9547583@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Ada Mode wish list John McCabe
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Simon Wright
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
1999-01-20 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Peter Hend�n
1999-01-20 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-01-20 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-20 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Martin Dowie
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Peter Hend�n
1999-01-19 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Gerhard Menzl
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Erik Funkenbusch
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Chris Gray
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-13 0:00 ` John Woodruff
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Corvus
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Herman
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Michael Trausch
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Jeff Carter
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-18 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-18 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-24 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Peter Flynn
[not found] ` <01be3f41$c1205ba0$5704fbd1@longslide>
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Thaddeus L. Olczyk
1999-01-17 0:00 ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-20 0:00 ` Gerry Quinn
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Tom Maier
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Vladyslav Kosulin
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Tov Are Jacobsen
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Peter
1999-01-14 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-15 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Peter Sch�ller
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Dave Hansen
1999-01-14 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dewar
1999-01-15 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-13 0:00 ` David Gillon
1999-01-24 0:00 ` Y2.1K (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-02-05 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1999-02-05 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Tucker Taft
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Emil Rojas
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Bob Cousins
1999-01-14 0:00 ` dennison
1999-01-14 0:00 ` jim.hyslop
1999-01-15 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Herman
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15 0:00 ` David R. Conrad
1999-01-15 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Bob Munck
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Al Christians
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Michael J. Tobler
1999-01-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-16 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-24 0:00 ` COBOL/Top-Down prog'g (was: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Nick Roberts
1999-01-25 0:00 ` robert_dewar
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Patrick Wibbeler
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Peter Amey
1999-01-29 0:00 ` P.S. Norby
1999-01-26 0:00 ` Ken
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Robert Garskof
1999-01-27 0:00 ` Jay O'Connor
1999-01-28 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-28 0:00 ` Joshua fit de wall
1999-01-29 0:00 ` Herman
1999-01-31 0:00 ` Ruth Ivimey-Cook
1999-01-31 0:00 ` him/her: was: " robert_dewar
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Peter Amey
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Chris Gray
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Tom Maier
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Brent A Ellingson
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Ola Liljedahl
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Crazy Pete
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Peter
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-15 0:00 ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Pete Becker
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-18 0:00 ` James Kanze
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Scott Johnson
[not found] ` <01be3f5e$26453ca0$5704fbd1@longslide>
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Siamak Kaveh
1999-01-16 0:00 ` Craig Garrett
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Bruce Detter
1999-01-18 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-18 0:00 ` Bruce Detter [this message]
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Thanks everyone! (was Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java) Martijn Lievaart
1999-01-19 0:00 ` John Birch
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Scott Johnson
1999-01-19 0:00 ` Bob Cousins
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Ada vs C++ vs Java Dr. Hubert B. Keller
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Bob Cousins
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Roedy Green
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1999-01-13 0:00 Leszek Sczaniecki
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
1999-01-13 0:00 ` Network
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Ken Keys
1999-01-15 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-01-13 0:00 ` David A. Frantz
1999-01-14 0:00 ` forsyth
1999-01-14 0:00 ` Marin David Condic
1999-01-15 0:00 ` robert_dewar
[not found] ` <369CF2CF.440F413C@hercii.mar.lmco.com>
1999-01-16 0:00 ` bob
[not found] <m3k8yhy6fe.fsf@fred.muc.de>
1999-01-21 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-21 0:00 ` forsyth
1999-01-22 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-01-25 0:00 ` Walter Mallory
replies disabled
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox