Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java

[robert_dewar@my-dejanews.com]

In article <8p64spq5lo5.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM>,
  Mike Coffin <mhc@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:

> When it first appeared, Ada was the
> laughingstock of programmers everywhere for its insane
> complexity and C++ has managed to outdo it.

In my experience, people who think Ada is an unacceptably
complex language are those who simply don't know it and
prefer to find a reason for rejecting a programming
language without having to make the effort to learn it.

Dave Parnas is an example of a well known person who has
made the statement that Ada is too complex. I challenged
him to a debate, and (to my surprise) he accepted! In the
run up discussion to the debate, he commented that he did
not want to debate technical details because he was not
that familiar with the technical details of Ada, I agreed
to this ground rule. Unfortunately, the debate was
cancelled by Dave because of poor health, and he never
rescheduled it despite my offer to reschedule at any time
or place. It would have been interesting!

Of course there are those for whom Ada is too complex, but
then there are those for whom programming itself is far
too complex, and unfortunately far too many of those kind
of people are graduated with computer science degrees and
working on critical software of various kinds!

> Then let me use Eiffel, or ML, or Scheme, or Haskell

Not out of the question, providing that you know the
language well, and that it is suitable for the task. You
do have to worry about non-programming language issues.
For example, lack of standardization, lack of sufficient
diversity of commercially supported tool sets etc.

>  I used them for years. I hate them. I got into this
>  business because I like elegance, not baling wire and
>  duct tape.

If you really think that you cannot write elegant code
in Ada, then you may have used it for years, but you never
learned it. The same is true for C++. You probably just
have never learned some of the really important elements
of elegance such as data abstraction, and separation of
specification and implementations, since they aren't in
C, they are probably foreign to you. Using Ada and C++
does not necessarily cure this gap in knowledge, learning
them properly does!

As for the argument that any programmer can write horrible
code in any language and that therefore language does not
matter, this is a commonly argued point, but in fact it is
a ludicrous non-sequitur.

It is like saying, a bad doctor can kill patients no matter
what tools they are using, therefore tools don't matter,
therefore let's stop wasting money on xray machines and
other expensive tools.

> The programmer is now writing Java for an internet
> startup and has stock options worth $3.6 million.
> He has an occasional mild headache but no ulcers.

To think that making money is evidence of competence or
quality is particularly naive. I guess you think NT must
be the best operating system in the world *simply because*
Microsoft is making lots of money -- an interesting theory
indeed.

Actually suh internet startups are often typical of
companies that indeed are operating at CMM level 1, and
have internal software practices that are the envy of none.

Here is an interesting test. For all people in your
organization, what would happen if they suddenly changed
jobs and disappeared in 3 days (happens all the time in
the valley). How much critical knowledge and know-how would
be lost?

Robert Dewar

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