Re: What ada 83 compiler is *best*

["Pat Rogers" <progers@NOclasswideSPAM.com>]

Rick Thorne wrote in message ...
>In article <74jpk8$p8j$1@remarQ.com>, "Pat Rogers"
><progers@NOclasswideSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>> When answers included concrete facts you invoked aliens and
>> silliness rather than discuss the data.  A killfile for the
answers
>> you don't like seems a strange way to learn.
>
>I'd answer you, but I've killfiled you.  Remember?!?
>
>;-)

I was wondering where it would go.  :-)

>I'm truly sorry about the attitude.  Let me conclude this
discussion as follows.

I apologize for allowing myself to be annoyed.  Life's too short for
acrimony.

>1) You haven't provided concrete facts.  You identified studies on
an
>obscure web page as "hard core" evidence of Ada's greater
productivity.

The sponsor of the web page isn't the issue.  I said "hard data"
because the studies contain data rather than opinion.  If guilt by
location is used, why have the Web?  Why shouldn't an advocacy page
shout out the news?  Considering the source is of course important,
especially when *opinions* are being offered.  But in this case the
source is not the advocacy group, but rather, in most of the studies
cited, external non-governmental entities.  That is especially the
case for the Zeigler Ada/C productity results.


<snip>
>2) I've read many studies touting the productivity of Ada, and I
have to
>say I think they're all a joke?  Why?  Think on your training as an
>engineer.  To properly conduct a comparative study like this, you
need to
>set up the experiment under tightly controlled environments.  To
conduct
>an Ada vs. C++ study, you need identical development environments,
>identical tools, and identical staff in order to proceed.
Additionally,
>you need people who AREN'T advocates of one side over the other
analyzing
>the data.  Finally, you need to have ALL elements of the lifecycle
>identical.
<snip>
>My bottom line here: don't quote productivity studies and expect me
to
>believe them.  For all the reasons I've stated above, I think
they're
>uncontrolled and uncontrollable AND  I think the studies are
aggressively
>skewed by advocates on whatever side.  I've actually read an AFA
study
>that stated up front that the study itself needs to taken with a
grain of
>salt!


That argument can probably be made for one of the studies I cited,
but (IMHO) not both.  That is why I wished you had taken a look at
the Ada/C paper by Steve Zeigler of Rational (when they were
Verdix).  It fits your requirements rather well, as the paper
indicates: not Ada advocates (they were die-hard C programmers),
whole lifecycle, long term, etc.  Why not have a look rather than
dismiss it out-of-hand?  If you find factual fault with it, great --
that would help everybody move forward.

>Respectfully,

Returned in kind,

---
Pat Rogers                          Training & Development in:
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