From: "Larry Elmore" <ljelmore@montana.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: Fortran or Ada?
Date: 1998/10/03
Date: 1998-10-03T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <6v57cq$b5e$1@news.campus.mci.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 19981002.222045.439@yktvmv.watson.ibm.com
jbs@yktvmv.watson.ibm.com wrote in message
<19981002.222045.439@yktvmv.watson.ibm.com>...
>In article <36156677.7566@lanl.gov>,
> on Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:49:11 -0600,
> William Clodius <wclodius@lanl.gov> writes:
>>jbs@yktvmv.watson.ibm.com wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>> The report I have says nothing like this. What report are
>>> you referring to?
>>> James B. Shearer
>>
>>Robert Eachus's comments are "mostly" inferable from the report. He is
>>correct that the report says (in equivalent words) that "the stack was
>>destroyed when the engine deflection exceeded the physical stress limits
>>of the stack (booster and payload)." He is also correct that this
>>implies that the software did not properly check that such an engine
>>deflection was safe at that thrust. I suspect that he infers from
>>presummed best practices that the software would make such a check, and
>>that it failed because the physical parameters were wrong, and that the
>>most likely reason that they were wrong was because the Ariane 4
>>parameters were used. However, the number of steps used in that
>>inference are long and while the individual steps are plausible
>>collectively they are less plausible. Further, whether any other system
>>malfunction could have caused the software to command that that
>>deflection is unknown.
>
> Actually what the report says is:
>
>! f) Approx. 0.05 seconds later the active inertial reference system,
>! identical to the back-up system in hardware and software, failed for
the
>! same reason. Since the back-up inertial system was already
inoperative,
>! correct guidance and attitude information could no longer be obtained
and
>! loss of the mission was inevitable.
>!
>! g) As a result of its failure, the active inertial reference system
>! transmitted essentially diagnostic information to the launcher's main
>! computer, where it was interpreted as flight data and used for flight
>! control calculations.
>!
>! h) On the basis of those calculations the main computer commanded the
>! booster nozzles, and somewhat later the main engine nozzle also, to
make a
>! large correction for an attitude deviation that had not occurred.
>!
>! i) A rapid change of attitude occurred which caused the launcher to
>! disintegrate at 39 seconds after H0 due to aerodynamic forces.
>!
>! j) Destruction was automatically initiated upon disintegration, as
>! designed, at an altitude of 4 km and a distance of 1 km from the
launch
>! pad.
>
> I don't see anything in there about the engine deflection
>being unsafe in itself, it just pointed the rocket in the wrong
>direction. Presumedly a less extreme deflection (error) would just
>have delayed the accident a few seconds.
Well, _of course_ you didn't see anything in there about the engine
deflection being unsafe in itself! That's because no one has suggested
anything so foolish. Mr. Eachus wrote:
"Note later in the report
where it says that the stack was destroyed when the engine deflection
exceeded the physical stress limits of the stack (booster and
payload). "
The failure was due to a management decision to use unchanged the Ariane 4
sub-system without any testing, or even adequate review.
LArry
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1998-10-03 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <36068E73.F0398C54@meca.polymtl.ca>
1998-09-22 0:00 ` Fortran or Ada? Gisle S{lensminde
1998-09-22 0:00 ` Jeff Templon
1998-09-22 0:00 ` Rakesh Malhotra
1998-09-22 0:00 ` Corey Minyard
1998-09-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1998-09-22 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-23 0:00 ` Jeff Templon
1998-09-23 0:00 ` Corey Minyard
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Craig Burley
1998-09-25 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-25 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1998-09-26 0:00 ` Craig Burley
1998-09-26 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-26 0:00 ` Craig Burley
1998-09-26 0:00 ` Robert B. Love
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Joel Seidman
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Marc A. Criley
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Jeff Templon
1998-09-25 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-25 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
1998-09-30 0:00 ` Daniel Barker
1998-09-30 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1998-10-01 0:00 ` Aaron Crane
1998-10-02 0:00 ` Fortran or Ada or gobbledygook? Wes Groleau
1998-10-05 0:00 ` Fortran or Ada? Terry Devine
1998-09-24 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-24 0:00 ` William Clodius
1998-09-25 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-25 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-25 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-25 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-25 0:00 ` jbs
1998-09-26 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-28 0:00 ` jbs
1998-09-29 0:00 ` Dean F. Sutherland
1998-09-29 0:00 ` William B. Clodius
1998-09-30 0:00 ` jbs
1998-09-30 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-30 0:00 ` jbs
1998-09-30 0:00 ` William Clodius
1998-09-30 0:00 ` William Clodius
1998-10-03 0:00 ` Niklas Holsti
1998-10-03 0:00 ` Toon Moene
1998-10-03 0:00 ` Niklas Holsti
1998-10-03 0:00 ` Toon Moene
1998-10-04 0:00 ` Niklas Holsti
1998-10-05 0:00 ` Michel OLAGNON
1998-10-05 0:00 ` Ian St. John
1998-10-05 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-10-05 0:00 ` Ian St. John
1998-10-06 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-10-06 0:00 ` James Giles
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Mark A Biggar
1998-10-06 0:00 ` James Giles
1998-10-07 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-10-07 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Ian St. John
1998-10-08 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1998-10-08 0:00 ` Offtopic Airport Diversion (Was: Fortran or Ada?) Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **
1998-10-08 0:00 ` Ian St. John
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Fortran or Ada? Toon Moene
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1998-10-05 0:00 ` Richard D Riehle
1998-10-05 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Michel OLAGNON
1998-10-07 0:00 ` Ian St. John
1998-09-29 0:00 ` Gautier.DeMontmollin
1998-09-29 0:00 ` Dean F. Sutherland
1998-09-29 0:00 ` Dean F. Sutherland
1998-10-02 0:00 ` Geoff Bull
1998-10-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-10-02 0:00 ` jbs
1998-10-02 0:00 ` William Clodius
1998-10-03 0:00 ` jbs
1998-10-03 0:00 ` Larry Elmore [this message]
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-10-06 0:00 ` Pat Rogers
[not found] ` <6udre0$ha1$1@nnrp1.dejane <6utg60$h6l$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
1998-10-01 0:00 ` robin_v
1998-09-23 0:00 ` Frank Ecke
1998-09-23 0:00 ` bglbv
1998-09-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Richard D Riehle
1998-09-23 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1998-09-23 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1998-09-23 0:00 ` Gisle S{lensminde
1998-09-24 0:00 ` John McCabe
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Gisle S{lensminde
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Dean F. Sutherland
1998-09-24 0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1998-09-24 0:00 Walt Brainerd
1998-09-25 0:00 ` dewarr
1998-09-25 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1998-10-05 0:00 Robert I. Eachus
1998-10-05 0:00 robin
1998-10-05 0:00 Condic, Marin D.
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