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From: "Mark A. Biggar" <mark@biggar.org>
Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest?
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:44:50 GMT
Date: 2003-10-15T20:44:50+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <6lijb.140205$%h1.139381@sccrnsc02> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Nwejb.7439$PM2.791437@news20.bellglobal.com>

Warren W. Gay VE3WWG wrote:

> Marin David Condic wrote:
> 
>> It won't work. It hasn't worked.
>>
>> If you can at *minimum* get the vendors to give you a nod that says 
>> "Yes, if such a thing were done under the control of this organization 
>> and with this sort of license and to some level of acceptable quality, 
>> we'd get on board and distribute it...", then you've got something. 
>> They don't have to commit to the library and wouldn't want to until 
>> they saw the net result.
>>
>> But if the answer is "No. We will not now, nor will we ever distribute 
>> a library built by this organization with that license, etc., - not 
>> unless it is totally rammed down our throats by the end users...", 
>> then the game is over.
> 
> 
> IFF you get this kind of answer from some, most or all of the vendors,
> then I would agree that you have a "point". But IMHO, this is unlikely
> first of all (its not in their interest to go against what the user
> base wants), and certainly not a foregone conclusion. Note the "FF"
> in "IFF".
> 
> What drives the vendors, is what the "users want". Get them using
> your stuff. Get them wanting more of your stuff. IOW, get the users
> hooked first (a very time honoured principle). The vendors will
> fall in line from there. Demand usually drives business. Only in
> creative things like the Segway (sp?) where people didn't know they
> wanted one, does it work the other way. But I don't think the
> vendors are going to have any kind of a surprise for anyone on
> this front. ;-)

The other issue that the vendors will have is the support issue.  If
they distribute it, then they will have to provide some level of support 
for it, if only training their support people on how to say "distributed
as is, we don't support it".  And vendor don't like to do that, as it
causes "Good Will" problems with their customers.

So even if you have the best thing sense Turing machines, some vendors
may not distribute it, because they don't see any benefit in the
increase in support costs.

Anything that isn't in the standard can have this problem.

-- 
mark@biggar.org
mark.a.biggar@comcast.net




  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-10-15 20:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-10-05  0:09 Standard Library Interest? chris
2003-10-05  1:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 11:44   ` chris
2003-10-05 15:16   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:40     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 19:22     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:12       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:09         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:34           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  0:23             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 12:42               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 13:17                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 17:17                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 17:42                     ` Larry Hazel
2003-10-07 19:36                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:31                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-07 21:56                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:11                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:07                               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10  4:38                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:37                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:24                                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-11 14:16                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:30                                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-12  2:46                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 14:07                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 14:20                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-14 19:14                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 19:27                                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-15 12:27                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 12:42                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:46                                   ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10 18:00                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12 11:19                                       ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-12 14:48                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 14:22                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 10:50                               ` Ching Bon Lam
2003-10-09 12:11                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 17:16                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 18:30                                     ` tmoran
2003-10-10  1:29                                   ` Frank
2003-10-10  8:19                                     ` chris
2003-10-10  2:53                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 15:55                             ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 16:49                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 17:18                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  2:59                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-08 19:54                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 21:40                               ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 12:28                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 15:18                                 ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-09 16:10                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 16:57                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  4:58                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  9:28                                     ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-10 14:59                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:48                                         ` Ed Falis
2003-10-10 16:29                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  7:01                                         ` Simon Wright
2003-10-10 15:51                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10 17:04                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10  3:02                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  5:17                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:38                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11 14:35                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 16:24                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 17:57                                           ` Ed Falis
2003-10-15 20:45                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 20:44                                           ` Mark A. Biggar [this message]
2003-10-16 12:55                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 16:52                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 17:53                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 13:25                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-18 13:50                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 17:14                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 13:04                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22 16:46                                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 17:13                                                             ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:23                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 13:55                                                                 ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:21                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-27 17:37                                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-28  1:53                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 12:38                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 17:16                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 18:02                                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 18:23                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  0:36                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  1:24                                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  1:40                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17  2:34                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17 12:45                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 18:04                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 20:09                                                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-20 17:40                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 20:55                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-21 22:46                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 21:02                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 18:44                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:42                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:10                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:58                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:01                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  0:51                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:17                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:10                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:14                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12 13:39                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:20                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:32                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12 11:14                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 13:18                                                   ` aleistad
2003-10-07 22:12                           ` tmoran
2003-10-07 22:37                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-08 16:03                           ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-09 13:28                           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-28 11:25                         ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 12:52                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:28                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 23:20                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:21                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 16:21                           ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player ACT) Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 23:37                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-29  1:12                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-29 14:35                               ` Marc A. Criley
2003-10-29 23:10                                 ` tmoran
2003-10-29 23:34                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-31 14:42                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-01  3:05                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  3:50                                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-01 13:20                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-02 16:41                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 19:25                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  7:20                                     ` Simon Wright
2003-11-02 17:04                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 15:09                             ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player IRVINE) Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 16:18                               ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-02 16:35                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 22:41                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  1:07                                 ` Standard Library Interest? Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03  1:27                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-03 12:52                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  3:58                                   ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  6:28                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03 12:11                                       ` Jeff C,
2003-11-03 17:07                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:07                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  7:54                                     ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-11-03 21:02                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-04  1:50                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:16                                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-06  2:07                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 15:14                                     ` Robert Spooner
2003-11-03 15:38                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-03 16:52                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 12:36                                   ` Marin David Condic
     [not found]                         ` <1067340353.3441.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
2003-10-28 11:30                           ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-08  1:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08  1:15                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:32                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 15:58                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:24                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 18:19                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-07 19:29                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:30                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-08  1:15                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:56                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 23:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  0:29                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 16:47                             ` POSIX File Structure Conventions for Ada (Was: Standard Library Interest?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 17:17                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-10-11 16:25                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 12:42                           ` Standard Library Interest? Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 13:07                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  3:15                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  8:10                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 12:49                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 13:20                                     ` Jeff C,
2003-10-11 14:48                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:09                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 19:22                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 11:30                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 12:36                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:41                                       ` sk
2003-10-11 17:43                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 18:08                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 18:11                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  1:33                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:16                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-15 16:42                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 16:35                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:59                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 19:54                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                   ` <8d6b51-0u3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-07 23:58                     ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                       ` <f8nc51-gv2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-08 12:45                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:00                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:37                           ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                           ` <hdbf51-523.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-09 14:24                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-10 12:06                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 15:03                                 ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-05 17:41   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 17:48     ` chris
2003-10-05 23:57     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07  1:44       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:44         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  2:05           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-09  5:39             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:06               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-05 14:49 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-05 15:25   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:51     ` sk
2003-10-05 18:23       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:14         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:15           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:35         ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-10-06  9:46           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:16             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:44               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 16:51               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 16:48         ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:38           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:42     ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:39       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:02 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:43   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 18:31     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  1:58       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 12:48         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 20:49           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 17:49   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 18:43     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 23:26       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-06 13:27         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:58           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  9:55             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-15 16:51               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:14                 ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-22 16:48                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-05 19:27   ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:33     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:16       ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:45         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:47     ` chris
2003-10-06 19:03       ` sk
2003-10-06 20:18         ` chris
2003-10-06 21:13           ` sk
2003-10-20  3:22             ` Dave Thompson
2003-10-20 10:29               ` sk
2003-10-07  0:30           ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-10-07  2:13     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 22:49       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:58         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09 12:57           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  3:09             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06  7:02   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 13:37     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:34       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 23:50         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  8:55           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:05             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 19:37       ` tmoran
2003-10-06 23:57         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:46           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  8:10             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-10  2:29               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:20             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-09 13:09             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:44               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:57                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 18:25                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:49                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  3:52                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06 13:50     ` (see below)
2003-10-06 15:28       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 19:37         ` tmoran
2003-10-07  8:59           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-05 23:33 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-10-06  9:02 ` Vadim Godunko
2003-10-07  0:48 ` Matthew Heaney
2003-10-07  8:56   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:08     ` Marin David Condic
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-10-10 13:46 Beard, Frank Randolph CIV
2003-10-11  7:33 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-11 15:04 ` Marin David Condic
     [not found] <mailman.191.1066918723.25614.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>
2003-10-23 14:26 ` Ed Falis
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