Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Christoph Grein]

From: dennison@telepath.com
> Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message 
news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
> > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
> > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
> > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
> 
> Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
> isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
> one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
> politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
> either side of yours.
> 
> I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
> countries asking their views of America.

America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other 
countries on this continent!

US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we 
in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling 
forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Reinert Korsnes]

Christoph Grein wrote:

> From: dennison@telepath.com
>> Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message
> news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
>> > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
>> > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
>> > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
>> 
>> Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
>> isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
>> one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
>> politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
>> either side of yours.
>> 
>> I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
>> countries asking their views of America.
> 
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30
> other countries on this continent!
> 
> US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world.
> Even we in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this
> disease by feeling forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

I am a human - which is another name for Norwegian citizen :-)

reinert

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Ted Dennison]

Christoph Grein <christoph.grein@eurocopter.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016779803.31526.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>...
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other 
> countries on this continent!
2 Continents, you mean.

> US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we 
> in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling 
> forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

Don't read too much into that. "America" in this case is a very
natural shortening of "United States of America". You are right that
some variants on that form could also be taken as referring to the
entire western hemisphere ("The Americas"). But, as I'm sure you are
more aware than most native speakers, English is full of ambiguous
words. Listeners are expected to pick up which sense is meant from
context, and in this case that's rarely difficult. Its indicitive of
our English penchant for short synonyms, not of any ignorance about
our hemispheric neighbors.

Seing as a tremendous proportion of our immigrants come from this
hemisphere, it would be a tough ignorance to maintain. In Texas,
Califonia, and Florida the support of Latinos is crutial for winning
any statewide election. Those happen to also be 3 of our biggest 4
states. It would be exeedingly difficult to get elected president
without winning any of them.

Note that USA isn't a unique designator either. There is a city in
Japan by that name. :-)


-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Pat Rogers]

"Christoph Grein" <christoph.grein@eurocopter.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1016779803.31526.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
> From: dennison@telepath.com
> > Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message
> news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>...
> > > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like
> > > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a
> > > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :)
> >
> > Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America"
> > isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which
> > one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different
> > politicial views in this country.  Many of them are bound to fall on
> > either side of yours.
> >
> > I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern
> > countries asking their views of America.
>
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
> countries on this continent!
>
> US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we
> in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by
feeling
> forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans".

Hang on.  That's much too broad.  Clearly, you must base your conclusion on the
population of US citizens that you have encountered, and just as clearly, that
cannot be all US citizens.

For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
Europe :-).

Now, I admit we Texans do have this view you describe -- not of the US, of
course, but of Texas!  :-)

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Preben Randhol]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> Europe :-).

Huh? What continent is UK part of?

-- 
Preben Randhol         �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Jim Rogers]

Preben Randhol wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> 
>>For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
>>Europe :-).
>>
> 
> Huh? What continent is UK part of?


Politically or geographically?

Last I heard, the UK was a member of the EU.

Many Atlases and geographical texts include Greenland as part of
North America. Similar logic would include the British Isles as
part of Europe.

Jim Rogers

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Pat Rogers]

"Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message
news:slrna9msj3.1r3.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> > Europe :-).
>
> Huh? What continent is UK part of?

The English people that I know (at least some of them) would say that Europe is
"over there", meaning "The Continent".

Hence the smiley.

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Pat Rogers]

"Jim Rogers" <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3C9B7394.3040607@worldnet.att.net...
> Preben Randhol wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote:
> >
> >>For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> >>Europe :-).
> >>
> >
> > Huh? What continent is UK part of?
>
>
> Politically or geographically?
>
> Last I heard, the UK was a member of the EU.
>
> Many Atlases and geographical texts include Greenland as part of
> North America. Similar logic would include the British Isles as
> part of Europe.

I needed more smiley's.  I know people, who are natives of England, who would
say that the UK is not part of Europe.  Europe is "over there".  They would be
grinning when they said it.

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Darren New]

Christoph Grein wrote:
> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
> countries on this continent!

Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you
mean?" After several weeks, I just gave up. :-)

-- 
Darren New 
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand.
      Remember, drive defensively if you drink.

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Preben Randhol]

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:34:37 GMT, Darren New wrote:
> Christoph Grein wrote:
>> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
>> countries on this continent!
> 
> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you

Which United States ? ;-) 


-- 
Preben Randhol         �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Larry Hazel]

Darren New wrote:
> 
> Christoph Grein wrote:
> > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other
> > countries on this continent!
> 
> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you
> mean?" After several weeks, I just gave up. :-)
> 
I just told them I am from Alabama.

Larry

Re: Waay OT - America

[Georg Bauhaus]

Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote:

: Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
: from, I say "I'm from the US." 

Try "United States".  Abreviatitis is not that popular in
some parts of this continent :-.

- georg

Re: Waay OT - America

[Georg Bauhaus]

Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:

:> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
:> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you
: 
: Which United States ? ;-) 

Estados Unidos, EEUU, that's pretty clear isn't it?

Re: Waay OT - America

[Georg Bauhaus]

Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote:

: Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
: from, I say "I'm from the US."

In the light of Preben's question as to which united states
I should add that indeed there is some talk about the united
states of Europe, in these or other words. So wrt my advice in
another post to say "United States" I should probably add that
the expression might profit from a pantomimically accompanied
geographical indication :-) Ah, has it?

It's true: America here (Europe, continent) is easily understood
to mean USA; the US army was present in Europe after WW II, and
they were named Americans, even in scientific books. This seems
to have lasted.

-- georg

Re: Waay OT - America

[Georg Bauhaus]

Pat Rogers <progers@classwide.com> wrote:
: 
: The English people that I know (at least some of them) would say that Europe is
: "over there", meaning "The Continent".

Strong indication of at least England not beeing part
of Europe is the term Continental Breakfast. Which OTOH
isn't always dested.

And how is Europe involved in The Commonwealth?...

-- georg

Re: Waay OT - America

[Darren New]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> Try "United States".  Abreviatitis is not that popular in
> some parts of this continent :-.

Well, I try "United States",  "the states", etc. The europeans *I* run
into want to hear "american". :-)

Not that this is any more OT than anything else going on. :-)

-- 
Darren New 
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand.
      Remember, drive defensively if you drink.

Re: Waay OT - America

[Jeffrey Carter]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> 
> Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:
> 
> :> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> :> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you
> :
> : Which United States ? ;-)
> 
> Estados Unidos, EEUU, that's pretty clear isn't it?

Randhol was probably referring to the many other countries that have
"United States" in their full names, such as the Mexican United States,
the United States of Brazil, and so on. You have to remember that at one
time the USA was actually admired by other countries. Mexico, Brazil,
and Australia all copied the District of Columbia idea and established
federal districts, not part of any state, to house their capital cities.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"I fart in your general direction."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail

Re: Waay OT - America

[Preben Randhol]

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:14:12 +0000 (UTC), Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> Strong indication of at least England not beeing part
> of Europe is the term Continental Breakfast. Which OTOH
> isn't always dested.

Hehe. Well I find that in the countries of Europe with a great food
tradition, breakfasts are usually the worst meal of the day (if they at
all bother with it). This is a bit puzzeling to a Norwegian as breakfast
is recognised by most as a very important meal. However eating a full
English breakfast will last you all day (more or less).

> And how is Europe involved in The Commonwealth?...

Did England colonised any part of Europe?

-- 
Preben Randhol         �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.�

Re: Waay OT - America

[tony]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> 
> Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> : Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> : from, I say "I'm from the US."
> 
> In the light of Preben's question as to which united states
> I should add that indeed there is some talk about the united
> states of Europe, in these or other words. So wrt my advice in
> another post to say "United States" I should probably add that
> the expression might profit from a pantomimically accompanied
> geographical indication :-) Ah, has it?
> 
> It's true: America here (Europe, continent) is easily understood
> to mean USA; the US army was present in Europe after WW II, and
> they were named Americans, even in scientific books. This seems
> to have lasted.
> 
> -- georg


Well whats everybody got to say the Israeli palestinian conflict then
??????????????????????????????????????

Re: Waay OT - America

[Gary Scott]

tony wrote:
> 
> Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> >
> > Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > : Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm
> > : from, I say "I'm from the US."
> >
> > In the light of Preben's question as to which united states
> > I should add that indeed there is some talk about the united
> > states of Europe, in these or other words. So wrt my advice in
> > another post to say "United States" I should probably add that
> > the expression might profit from a pantomimically accompanied
> > geographical indication :-) Ah, has it?
> >
> > It's true: America here (Europe, continent) is easily understood
> > to mean USA; the US army was present in Europe after WW II, and
> > they were named Americans, even in scientific books. This seems
> > to have lasted.
> >
> > -- georg
> 
> Well whats everybody got to say the Israeli palestinian conflict then
> ??????????????????????????????????????

I say that genetically speaking there's very little difference between
Israelis, Palestinians, Irish, Germans, Chinese, Finnish,
Icelanders...so why can't we all just get along.
-- 

Gary Scott
mailto:scottg@flash.net

mailto:webmaster@fortranlib.com
http://www.fortranlib.com

Support the GNU Fortran G95 Project:  http://g95.sourceforge.net

Re: Waay OT - America

[Jean-Pierre Rosen]

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"Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> a �crit dans le message news:
> Did England colonised any part of Europe?
>
Of course. South of France was long occupied by England (in the Middle-ages). That's why most british people *still* prefer Bordeaux
to Bourgogne....

--
---------------------------------------------------------
           J-P. Rosen (rosen@adalog.fr)
Visit Adalog's web site at http://www.adalog.fr

Re: Waay OT - America

[Preben Randhol]

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:03:51 +0100, Jean-Pierre Rosen wrote:
> 
> "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> a �crit dans le message news:
>> Did England colonised any part of Europe?
>>
> Of course. South of France was long occupied by England (in the
> Middle-ages). That's why most british people *still* prefer Bordeaux
> to Bourgogne....

Ah yes, but I think that was pre-Commonwealth.

Preben

Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Kent Paul Dolan]

In comp.lang.ada "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:

> Pat Rogers wrote:
> > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of
> > Europe :-).

> Huh? What continent is UK part of?

Unless you side with John Donne, that no empire is an island, each is a
piece of the continent, a part of the main, I'd suggest that at least
the British Isles are just that.  Since the UK was once globe spanning,
asking of what continent it is a part doesn't make much sense.

xanthian.

Nobody _must_ be a piece of a continent, continents are just
conventions: Europe is firmly attached to Asia, yet they are called
different continents, Britain is in no way attached to Europe, so why
should they be called parts of the same continent?

As well call Hawaii a part of North America, because it is currently
politically a part of the US.  60km from Dover to Normandy, 3000km from
Oahu to San Francisco, the difference is only one of degree.



-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Re: Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Philip Anderson]

Kent Paul Dolan wrote in message
<6f07b246012ce00b048b501ff038bbf8.48257@mygate.mailgate.org>...
>In comp.lang.ada "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote:
>
>> Pat Rogers wrote:
>> > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK
is part of
>> > Europe :-).
>
>> Huh? What continent is UK part of?
>
>Unless you side with John Donne, that no empire is an island, each is a
>piece of the continent, a part of the main, I'd suggest that at least
>the British Isles are just that.  Since the UK was once globe spanning,
>asking of what continent it is a part doesn't make much sense.

The UK [the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland] was
never globe-spanning, though the British Empire was.


>xanthian.
>
>Nobody _must_ be a piece of a continent, continents are just
>conventions: Europe is firmly attached to Asia, yet they are called
>different continents, Britain is in no way attached to Europe, so why
>should they be called parts of the same continent?

It's attached by the Continental Shelf, has been separated by water for
only a few thousand years and is now linked by the Channel Tunnel.  More
to the point, there is no cultural divide (except in the minds of some
Little Englanders).

--
hwyl/cheers
Philip Anderson
Cymru/Wales

Re: Waay OT - America

[Frank]

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> > "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> a �crit dans le message news:
> >> Did England colonised any part of Europe?
> >>
Gibraltar, South-"Spain" (don't know how it was "colonized":-)

Frank

Divide NOT? (sort of still): Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Kent Paul Dolan]

"Philip Anderson" <pjanderson@freeuk.com> wrote:

Umm, on the basis of land bridges, North America is a part of Asia; I
don't think that works.

> More
> to the point, there is no cultural divide (except in the minds of some
> Little Englanders).

France, with the most impoverished language probably on the planet, some
60,000 words, and kept that way by force of law, as it would otherwise
evolve to catch up with the rest of the planet, sits on one end of the
chunnel, and England, with a 2.5 million word language, sits on the
other.  Granted that's more of a cultural _chasm_ than a cultural
divide,  I must beg to disagree that the two sides have much in common
besides joint and cotemperaneous use of battlefields.

xanthian.


-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Re: Divide NOT? (sort of still): Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?)

[Jim Rogers]

Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> "Philip Anderson" <pjanderson@freeuk.com> wrote:
> 
> Umm, on the basis of land bridges, North America is a part of Asia; I
> don't think that works.


For that matter, there is still a very visible land bridge between
North America and South America. I don't think that works either.


> 
> 
>>More
>>to the point, there is no cultural divide (except in the minds of some
>>Little Englanders).
>>
> 
> France, with the most impoverished language probably on the planet, some
> 60,000 words, and kept that way by force of law, as it would otherwise
> evolve to catch up with the rest of the planet, sits on one end of the
> chunnel, and England, with a 2.5 million word language, sits on the
> other.  Granted that's more of a cultural _chasm_ than a cultural
> divide,  I must beg to disagree that the two sides have much in common
> besides joint and cotemperaneous use of battlefields.


Let's see, many English words are derivations of French words.
This seems to be the result of something called the Norman Invasion.

At different time in history both France and the UK have been the
best friend of the United States of America. At other times in history
both countries have been the primary enemies of the United States of
America. Both countries have spent large parts of the 20th century
joining together to fight Germany.

Soon both countries will be joined by a common currency.

Jim Rogers