Re: Ada not wanted

Re: Ada not wanted

[Nick Roberts]

On more than one occasion I have mentioned the 'Ada' programming language
over the phone (to a dealer, a recruitment office, etc.), and had a
(confused) written reply which mentions the 'Aider' programming language!

This is a much debated topic on this newsgroup. It is clear that Ada is, in
the commercial arena at least, a rarely used language, compared to C++, and
others (Visual Basic, Delphi, Powerbuilder, even xBase). Thus, it is hardly
surprising that a lot of programmers feel their bread is buttered on the C++
side.

However, in the commercial arena, I know well that a frequent (almost
persistent) comment from those who have made the move from C++ to Delphi is
how much easier they find it to program in the latter. They invariably
mention the improved readability, facilities such as range-checking, and the
greater number of bugs caught quickly by the compiler (as well as the rich
environment, the great debugger, and many other things).

And, of course, Ada is a much better language (in the same terms) than
Delphi.

Someone suggested on this newsgroup recently that an Ada compiler with the
same rich, slick environment that Delphi comes with would be a 'killer
application'. The response was muted, but it surely would. When people
started using the language, and finding its ease-of-use, they would rejoice.

But, no such thing exists.

It makes me chuckle: I am convinced Borland would again have a product to
make them No.1* programming language vendor in the world (as they used to be
for a short period), if they were to do exactly as the above poster
suggested (Delphi based on Ada). But they won't, because they don't have
anyone there who knows enough about Ada.

Of course, a popular Ada product would spawn a banquet of Ada programmers
(thus, a few competent ones among them ;-).

Finally, ever hopeful, I once again cast forth one of my little pearls:
there's no such thing as a good** Ada programmer; only a good programmer
(who maybe knows a little Ada :-).

-----
*all right then, maybe No. 2
**substitute experienced, competent, senior, most winning, or other
superlative of your choice


------------ Nick Roberts
---------- Croydon, UK
-------- Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com
------ Voicemail & Fax +44 181-405 1124
---- Proprietor, ThoughtWing Software
-- Independent Software Development Consultant


Jerry van Dijk wrote in message <01bd43dc$491dd580$7b2c5c8b@aptiva>...
>I matches my own experience over here: the hardest part of getting an
>Ada project started is finding enough experienced Ada programmers.

Re: Ada not wanted

[Michael F Brenner]

    > ... recruiter ... cannot find qualified Ada candidates ...

    > ... any of you come across this situation?

No. The situation that is most common is offering entry-level salaries
for positions requiring Ada and senior systems engineering experience.

Very few Ada users are doing simple databases like financial applications
or gui generation using automatic gui-generating tools or web pages.

Most Ada users are doing hardware-software integration, realtime systems,
transportation or communications systems, engines or pilot or radar
stations, satellite orbital or ground stations, complex tools, 
military applications, or some form of robotics. 

To ask an entry level programmer, like my nephew, at entry level 
wages, to simply program the orbit of a satellite or make my engine
timing start working, is not necessarily a good plan. 

To expect people to quit their job for entry-level wages is also not
necessarily a good plan. 

The real problem is that the people who have the ability to solve
the problems are not being sought because the seekers have no
intention of paying what they are worth. 

The other half of the problem is that any object Pascal or Turbo Pascal
with objects programmer can be turned into an Ada programmer in a couple 
of hours. A very quick interview can determine if they have ever used
Pascal objects as objects, or actually divided programs into 
interfaces and implementations, and actually encapsulated data.

Again, this points to the fact that Ada is not the problem. The problem
is solving particular types of problems. Ada just happens to be the
best way to solve those problems. 

Entry level salaries does NOT happen to be best way to solve those 
problems.

There are enough Ada programmers to go around, but there are not
enough jobs at their salary levels. 

Mike Brenner

Re: Ada not wanted

[Jon S Anthony]

"Jerry van Dijk" <jvandyk@ibm.net> writes:

> <<someone else wrote>> 
> > We have been recruiting for some open positions here the last 2-3 months
> > and came across an interesting situation yesterday.  One of the
> > recruiters we work with said that it has been very hard for him to find
> > people for us because of our "Ada" requirement.   
> 
> I matches my own experience over here: the hardest part of getting an
> Ada project started is finding enough experienced Ada programmers.

Hmmmm.  From recent experience in trying to get good people, the
problem has not been one of finding Ada "ready" engineers or those
quite willing to come up to speed with it.  We have had quite a lot of
resume's from those with a high degree of Ada expertise.  The real
problem has been in satisfying some of the other requirements/desires.
The intersection of all these things has been the real issue, and I
would like to emphasize that the Ada aspect has been put forth as
simply a "plus".

Now, it is true that one of our recruiters said a similar thing to
what was stated above.  He said something to the effect that the Ada
bit deterred some otherwise interested parties.  I told him that if
that was an issue with these "otherwise interested parties", it would
be _higly_ unlikely that they would be any good anyway.  Anyone
thinking that the language used is somehow the most important part of
a project, is just plain a loser.

BTW, our project is a commercial desk top application...

/Jon

-- 
Jon Anthony
Synquiry Technologies, Ltd., Belmont, MA 02178, 617.484.3383
"Nightmares - Ha!  The way my life's been going lately,
 Who'd notice?"  -- Londo Mollari