* Re: HTML as GNAT source [not found] ` <3.0.3.32.19980204153401.0085a970@mail.4dcomm.com> @ 1998-02-05 0:00 ` Lionel Draghi 1998-02-10 0:00 ` HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web Nick Roberts 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Lionel Draghi @ 1998-02-05 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert C. Leif, Ph.D. wrote: > > To: Robert I. Eachus et al. > From: Bob Leif, Ph.D. > > Using HTML for source text (code) would greatly improve Ada environments. > It would then be possible to create cross-references between the > documentation and the source text (code). Thus if I had a requirement in my > documentation, I could make a link in my source to it. This would permit > the references in both the source and the documentation to be updated. > I agree that it could be (it will be :-) a great improvement. I daily dream that, in my code, some reference to a problem report, appears whit a different color. I click on it, and xemacs open me a new frame containing the problem report. It's only a dream, but reality is not so far. hTML is a simple and widely used technology, so for others tools involved in the developpment process, there is no real problem. No doubt that Robert's initiative regarding Ada code will be successfull, but an immediate first step could be to process html markers in Ada comment. I think this will cause compiler no special problem. What we only need is an elisp gourou to merge Ada and html mode :-) ________________________________________________________________________ Lionel Draghi 01 45 28 88 50 17, rue Simon Dereure 93 110 Rosny-sous-Bois ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web 1998-02-05 0:00 ` HTML as GNAT source Lionel Draghi @ 1998-02-10 0:00 ` Nick Roberts 1998-02-10 0:00 ` Samuel Mize 1998-02-11 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923 0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Nick Roberts @ 1998-02-10 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Who remembers Don Knuth's 'Web'? This was a wonderful idea (IMHO!), in which pieces of the source code (of any programming language) of a program were embedded in a text document (TEX or whatever) which also contained the documentation for the code. The trick was that the pieces were named, and other pieces could be embedded, macro-like, into a piece of code, by name. I tried this idea out myself, in my youth (many moons ago...), and I liked it. Two special programs were needed: one to 'spin' the web document into a file suitable for printing (or browsing or whatever); one to 'tangle' the web document to produce the source code for compilation. Knuth coined the deliberately perjorative phrase "literate programming" for this techinique. Once you got used to it, the results could be very neat! The best thing about it (and I suppose the worst too) was that it practically forced you to properly document your program as you wrote it. In an industry which highly valued the production of good quality software, this idea would have been a breakthrough. Needless to say, in reality it never caught on! -- == Nick Roberts ================================================ == Croydon, UK =========================== == ================ == Proprietor, ThoughtWing Software ========== == Independent Software Development Consultant ====== == Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com ==== == Voicemail & Fax +44 181-405 1124 === == == == I live not in myself, but I become == === Portion of that around me; and to me == ==== High mountains are a feeling, but the hum == ======= Of human cities torture. =========== -- Byron [Childe Harold] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web 1998-02-10 0:00 ` HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web Nick Roberts @ 1998-02-10 0:00 ` Samuel Mize 1998-02-11 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923 1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Samuel Mize @ 1998-02-10 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <01bd3364$2c898c80$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>, Nick Roberts <Nick.Roberts@dial.pipex.com> wrote: >Who remembers Don Knuth's 'Web'? I rememeber it. I read his example program, and found the amount of text surrounding the simplest items excessive and confusing, the style of cross-reference harder to follow, and the program overall harder to read than normal Ada code. In all fairness, I was seeing his program presented as a written document. The programs I work on are large systems, and I do a lot of navigation with cross-reference tables, find and grep. Perhaps his overall tool suite would provide similar help, but it didn't seem to me a particularly better way to organize code. Obviously, other people felt differently: >This was a wonderful idea (IMHO!) Some of his ideas were certainly worth using. For instance: - his format encouraged you to discuss the program and its design; - (if I recall right) his book-like organization included a table of contents and an index; - his format broke the program into subsections in which, as in a well-written technical document, only one subject is covered. >Knuth coined the deliberately perjorative phrase "literate programming" for >this techinique. I assume from your discussion that you mean it was deliberately perjorative toward OTHER techniques. I've actually seen some very good examples of literate programming in Ada. (I HOPE I've created some of them.) Not in terms of using a web/spider tool, but in terms of writing in a literate style. To take the points listed above in the same order: - we don't generally put the design document into the code (or vice versa), but we do follow the design or amend it to reflect the code. Ada code, well written, is fairly self-documenting at the line-of-code level, so my comments tend to be blocks of text that explain blocks of code, as opposed to: N := N + X; -- increment N by X - Various tools provide indexing and cross-referencing to a great degree in Ada. Also, packages can be used not only to control namespaces, but to provide a fairly clear top-level organization (although in all fairness, they too often are not used this way); - the use of packages, contained and child packages, and textual division with formalized comment blocks provides a good way to break the program into cohesive subsections. Ada 95 improves this over Ada 83 by allowing declarations to be freely intermixed, so you can declare all related items together. >The best thing about it (and I suppose the worst too) was that it >practically forced you to properly document your program as you wrote it. Nah. I could write a program using his tools that had virtually no documentation, not even meaningful identifiers. The point to the tool, as I understood it, was to promote the idea of literate programming in WHATEVER tool system YOU were using. It's kind of like Pascal, which was originally intended purely as a way to give students good coding habits. If Mr. Knuth had higher hopes for the specific tool he developed, they didn't pan out -- but I didn't observe any concerted effort to market it, either (maybe I missed it). >In an industry which highly valued the production of good quality software, >this idea would have been a breakthrough. Needless to say, in reality it >never caught on! I think it had an impact, and that it also reflected some trends that were already crystallizing in the industry. Of course, I'm immersed in the Defense/aerospace part of the industry, where (at least some) people already consider reliability and maintainability to be worth paying for, unlike some companies. Not to name any major PC OS vendors. I wouldn't claim that his ideas have suffused the industry, but they haven't gone totally ignored, although the tool he built generally has. Best, Sam Mize -- Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Personal net account - die gedanken sind frei ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web 1998-02-10 0:00 ` HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web Nick Roberts 1998-02-10 0:00 ` Samuel Mize @ 1998-02-11 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923 1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: W. Wesley Groleau x4923 @ 1998-02-11 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) > Who remembers Don Knuth's 'Web'? This was a wonderful idea (IMHO!), > .... > The best thing about it (and I suppose the worst too) was that it > practically forced you to properly document your program as you > wrote it. Correction: It ALLOWED you to document your program as you wrote it. Is there anyone here who has NEVER seen an uncommented program? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Groleau, Raytheon Systems Company, Fort Wayne, IN USA Member of Technical Staff - AFATDS Tool-smith Wanna-be wwgrol AT pseserv3.fw.hac.com Don't send advertisements to this domain unless asked! All disk space on fw.hac.com hosts belongs to either Raytheon Systems Company or the United States government. Using email to store YOUR advertising on them is trespassing! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1998-02-11 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <9802031420.AA16822@nile.gnat.com> [not found] ` <3.0.3.32.19980204153401.0085a970@mail.4dcomm.com> 1998-02-05 0:00 ` HTML as GNAT source Lionel Draghi 1998-02-10 0:00 ` HTML as GNAT source/Knuth's Web Nick Roberts 1998-02-10 0:00 ` Samuel Mize 1998-02-11 0:00 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
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