Re: Unknown government training?

[ntm1063@dsacg1.UUCP (James Haskins)]

From article <37413@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>, by beal@ketch.cis.ohio-state.edu (Alan Beal):
> In article <8902280023.AA20727@rutgers.edu> casado@mdlrth.dnet (Ben x2302) writes:
> 
>    Ok, I worked for the defense department(really Defense Logistics Agency) 
>    for 5 years.  I started out without any degree in CS, ADP, etc but was
>    recruited into a 3 year intern program to train me how to program in
>    COBOL.  One person was trained in ADA the whole time I was there - this
>    is out of about 60-70 programmers.  There was lip service to how the
>    defense department had mandated that all new software be programmed in
>    ADA.  When I left(in Sept), the score was COBOL 3000, ADA 0.
> 
  Why did it surprise you that DLSC showed little enthusiasm for ADA?  If  
things are still as I recall them when I left in 82, well over 90 % of DIDS
and the other subsidiary systems are written in COBOL and the organization
is principally operating in maintenance mode.  DLA as a whole has not
completely ignored the subject.  Here at DSAC (for the rest of the readers
this is the principal design activity for DLA), an ADA task group worked for
nearly two years.  A cadre of folks was trained and did some development work
on various prototype demos.  While it is true that this has not led to a
stampede to get the agency converted to ADA, it is evidence that we have
not taken a totally complacent attitude.  For the rest of the readers, don't
be surprised if ADA is slow to "take over" DoD.  Like everyone else in the
industry, we have a large installed base of software written in other
languages.  There are some here that would argue that a move to C, for 
portability reasons, would make sense in some cases.  If ADA takes over, the
process will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary.


>    It is true that the government invests a lot of money in training, but I
>    question if it is always well spent.  After all, there are those of us
>    who willing accept this training and then leave.  I have seen numerous
>    cases where people claimed they couldn't program in language XYZ, but
>    once they received training in language XYZ, about one month 
>    later it would be hard to get those people to do even the most basic
>    programming in that language.  At this point, they suddenly get a job as
    a systems analyst.
> 
> 

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard this argument about the low
mentality of government workers.  Even government workers often engage in 
this form of "fed bashing".  It is hard to attract job candidates, especially
at the entry level, because we can't offer competitive salaries.  We lost two
coop students, students that we had provided the opportunity to gain 
experience through summer employment while they were completing college, to
IBM and AT&T because we could not match the starting salaries.  However,
in many places, like Battle Creek or Columbus, the journeyman salaries are
generally competitive, at least for most programming jobs.  Folks who complain
about the way the government operates and the people who work for it but who
refuse to work for the government themselves don't have a bitch coming when
the government doesn't act the way they think it should.> 
>  Alan Beal
>  The Ohio State University
>  Department of Computer and Information Science
>  beal@cis.ohio-state.edu      {pyramid,killer}!osu-cis!cis.ohio-state.edu!beal
-- 
Jim Haskins
DLA Systems Automation Center                     | 614 238-9432
DSAC-TMP P.O. Box 1605 Columbus, Ohio 43216       | Autovon 850-
All opinions expressed are mine alone etc., etc.