comp.lang.ada
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From: kaz@latte.cafe.net (Kaz)
Subject: Re: Programming language vote - results
Date: 1997/10/20
Date: 1997-10-20T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <62fau3$fko$1@latte.cafe.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 877355167snz@genesis.demon.co.uk


In article <877355167snz@genesis.demon.co.uk>,
Lawrence Kirby <fred@genesis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <344BCED0.2D51@dynamite.com.au>
>           aebrain@dynamite.com.au "Alan E & Carmel J Brain" writes:
>
>...
>
>>Hence my preference for Ada. When listening to C weenies - er -
>>enthusiasts talking about how their code is so tight, so efficient, and
>>above all so impenetrable that it's obviously superior to another
>>solution (in Ada so clear that "Any Fool could have written that"), I
>>have to take a dried-frog pill and count to 10.
>
>I don't know what sort of C programmers you talk to but that is *not*
>the sort of approach advocated on comp.lang.c. Here we're interested
>in code that is portable and clear. Optimisation is only a secondary
>issue, the most important aspect of that is choosing the right
>algorithm.

In any case, Ada's clarity of expression is extremely overemphasized
by Ada ween^H^H^H^Hadvocates.

Ada source has very little to guide the eye, due to its lack of the use of
concise graphical symbols. Blocks delimited by BEGIN and END simply do not
nest visually.  The comments introduced by -- simply don't stand out very
well. The input character set is excessively restricted, and simple ()
parentheses are too overloaded in meaning because {} and [] aren't available
(is x(y) a function call or an array ref?). Can you say dull? 
As a result, your brain has to do a lot more analysis when reading code,
since you have to subconsciously check the syntax and even some semantics
to glean information that could be lexically determined.

Ada programs tend to be verbose and amorphous looking, qualities which occlude
the meaning. (I'm talking about conventionally formatted programs, too e.g.
GNAT sources. It wouldn't be fair to pick a purposely obfuscated example,
just like it wouldn't be fair to choose an obfuscated C example.)

Although Ada is great, I wouldn't advocate it on grounds of lexical or
syntactic convenience or readability. You'd have to be crazy!
-- 





  reply	other threads:[~1997-10-20  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <343fbb5a.0@news.iprolink.ch>
1997-10-11  0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Gary L. Scott
1997-10-12  0:00   ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13  0:00     ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13  0:00     ` safetran
1997-10-13  0:00       ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-14  0:00         ` Philip Brashear
1997-10-14  0:00           ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13  0:00       ` FRS DES
1997-10-13  0:00     ` Robert Munck
1997-10-13  0:00       ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13  0:00       ` Gary L. Scott
     [not found]     ` <3442B745.5352@lmco.com>
1997-10-15  0:00       ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-16  0:00       ` James Giles
1997-10-16  0:00         ` Andrew Haley
1997-10-13  0:00   ` David Ness
1997-10-14  0:00     ` Jan Karman
1997-10-15  0:00       ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-15  0:00         ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-15  0:00           ` Mark Stephen
1997-10-17  0:00             ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-15  0:00           ` FRS DES
1997-10-16  0:00           ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-16  0:00           ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-16  0:00             ` FRS DES
1997-10-17  0:00               ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-10-16  0:00             ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17  0:00               ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-17  0:00               ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-17  0:00                 ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17  0:00             ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-20  0:00               ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20  0:00                 ` FRS DES
1997-10-21  0:00                   ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20  0:00                 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-10-20  0:00                   ` Kaz [this message]
1997-10-21  0:00                     ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-23  0:00                     ` Ada Readability (Re: Programming language vote - results) Ray Blaak
1997-10-21  0:00                   ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-21  0:00                 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-22  0:00                   ` Don Guinn
     [not found]                     ` <01bce1bf$5c2baaa0$95b66bcf@dkelly.ark.com>
1997-10-29  0:00                       ` FRS DES
1997-10-29  0:00                       ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29  0:00                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-10-31  0:00                         ` Documenting Code (was:Programming language vote - results) Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-30  0:00                           ` Charles Lin
1997-10-30  0:00                             ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31  0:00                               ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31  0:00                             ` Robert Bernecky
1997-11-01  0:00                           ` Randy MacDonald
1997-11-01  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-11-03  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-10-29  0:00                     ` Programming language vote - results Randy MacDonald
1997-10-25  0:00                   ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-26  0:00                     ` functionality of Java (was Re: Programming language vote - results) Randy MacDonald
1997-10-23  0:00                 ` Programming language vote - results Jack Rudd
1997-10-25  0:00                   ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-25  0:00                     ` Kaz
1997-10-26  0:00                       ` FRS DES
1997-10-27  0:00                       ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-27  0:00                         ` APL argument W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-10-28  0:00                           ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-28  0:00                         ` Programming language vote - results Jan Karman
1997-10-28  0:00                           ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-28  0:00                             ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29  0:00                               ` Robert Bernecky
     [not found]                                 ` <bosworth-2910972044300001@access59.accsyst.com>
1997-10-30  0:00                                   ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-30  0:00                                     ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31  0:00                                       ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31  0:00                                         ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29  0:00                     ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-25  0:00                 ` Peter Seebach
1997-11-18  0:00                   ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1997-11-18  0:00                     ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-29  0:00                       ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1998-09-10  0:00                         ` Steven Katz
1997-11-18  0:00                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24  0:00                       ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-25  0:00                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-26  0:00                           ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-02  0:00                           ` ANDREAS LEITNER
1997-12-02  0:00                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-03  0:00                               ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-03  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-02  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-05  0:00                             ` John Sullivan
1997-11-25  0:00                         ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-25  0:00                           ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-26  0:00                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26  0:00                           ` FRS DES
1997-11-18  0:00                     ` firewind
1997-11-18  0:00                       ` Larry Elmore
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
1997-11-18  0:00                       ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-19  0:00                         ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19  0:00                       ` Mike Smith
1997-11-19  0:00                         ` Matt
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
     [not found]                           ` <3474C71B.536B12F6@cgocable.net>
1997-11-21  0:00                             ` CVigue
1997-11-23  0:00                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` FRS DES
1997-11-20  0:00                       ` Terry Richards
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` Andy Knight
1997-11-23  0:00                         ` Alex Krol
1997-11-25  0:00                         ` William Tanksley
1997-11-26  0:00                           ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27  0:00                             ` William Tanksley
1997-11-27  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
     [not found]                                 ` <65keij$mkd$1@nerd.apk.net>
1997-11-27  0:00                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-28  0:00                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-12-01  0:00                                 ` FRS DES
1997-11-20  0:00                       ` Andy Knight
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
1997-11-20  0:00                       ` Coding for Obscurity Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` Stephan Wilms
1997-11-21  0:00                           ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-23  0:00                           ` Alex Krol
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` Jim Johnson
1997-11-24  0:00                               ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-26  0:00                                 ` Robert S. White
1997-11-26  0:00                                   ` Leon Jones
1997-11-26  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26  0:00                                     ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27  0:00                                       ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-11-26  0:00                                   ` Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
1997-12-01  0:00                                     ` ISONE
1997-12-01  0:00                                     ` ISONE
1997-11-26  0:00                                   ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-27  0:00                                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-23  0:00                           ` Al Christians
1997-11-24  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-11-25  0:00                                 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24  0:00                             ` Matt
1997-11-24  0:00                               ` Ed Falis
1997-11-20  0:00                         ` firewind
1997-11-20  0:00                           ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-19  0:00                     ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19  0:00                     ` Peter Seebach
     [not found]           ` <01bcdad2$fa9fdf60$25a43a91@basil.omroep.nl>
1997-10-17  0:00             ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-17  0:00         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-10-14  0:00     ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-13  0:00   ` Robert S. White
1997-10-13  0:00     ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13  0:00   ` Matthew Heaney
1997-10-14  0:00     ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-19  0:00 ` William Rapp
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