From: nospam@somewhere.ia.us (Robert S. White)
Subject: Re: Programming language vote - results
Date: 1997/10/13
Date: 1997-10-13T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <61uc5n$o3i$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 343FD05C.8986A557@flash.net
In article <343FD05C.8986A557@flash.net>, scottg@flash.net says...
>
>Oh the horror stories about Ada just about anyone in the defense
>industry could tell you...(inefficiency, bloat, development delays,
>budget overruns)...I dare you to fit a Jovial application that already
>max's out a computer's capabilities in the same box using OO techniques
>in Ada.
I bounce between Jovial (worse yet J73/I) and Ada all the time at
work. Yes _some_compiler implementations are not as good as others -
but others are just fine. Ever look at the code quality of Tartan Ada?
Don't blame the language when coders go OO beserk. In _real_life_ we
watch our processor utilization carefully and use pragma inline and turn
off runtime checks in the "hot spot" code routines. You _can_ use
Stucture Analysis with Ada to come up with an equivalent software design
just like you used to get with Jovial. But it is so much easier to
maintain and modify software that is designed with an object oriented (or
at least object based) high level structure. You do have to know when to
stop at low level routines, have to watch out for inefficiencies from
virtual dispatching (avoid late binding), heap usage, and subroutine
nesting.
But the problem you describe with an already "max'd out" application
written in Jovial (or C) using older Structure Analysis/(functional
decomposition), would also have problems if you used any other OO
capable language (C++, Eiffel, Delphi, etc.) and OOA/OOD without concern
for processor utilization.
>..In fact, multiply memory and CPU throughput by 10 and try it.
I have seen an Ada implementation take about 10 - 15% more (1.1x to 1.15x)
than a very mature (very efficient code) J73/I compiler on same
processor target when equivalent compiler switches thrown. Never - never
have I seen a 10x case due to the compilers alone. Even way back in 1984
with early immature compilers worse case max was 3x. Did your
compiler that you are complaining about even have peephole optimization?
>You will likely be forced to back off OO quite a bit, making an even
>bigger mess of maintainability/reusability...
And the original Jovial was wonderful in those areas?
_____________________________________________________________________
Robert S. White -- An embedded systems software engineer
e-mail reply to reverse of: ia us lib cedar-rapids crpl shift2 whiter
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-10-13 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <343fbb5a.0@news.iprolink.ch>
1997-10-11 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Gary L. Scott
1997-10-12 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Robert Munck
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` safetran
1997-10-13 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Philip Brashear
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
[not found] ` <3442B745.5352@lmco.com>
1997-10-15 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-16 0:00 ` James Giles
1997-10-16 0:00 ` Andrew Haley
1997-10-13 0:00 ` David Ness
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Jan Karman
1997-10-15 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-15 0:00 ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-15 0:00 ` Mark Stephen
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-15 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-16 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-16 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-16 0:00 ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-17 0:00 ` John Sullivan
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-16 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-20 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-10-20 0:00 ` Kaz
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-23 0:00 ` Ada Readability (Re: Programming language vote - results) Ray Blaak
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-20 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-21 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-22 0:00 ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
[not found] ` <01bce1bf$5c2baaa0$95b66bcf@dkelly.ark.com>
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Don Guinn
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Documenting Code (was:Programming language vote - results) Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-30 0:00 ` Charles Lin
1997-10-30 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-11-01 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-11-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-11-03 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results FRS DES
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-26 0:00 ` functionality of Java (was Re: Programming language vote - results) Randy MacDonald
1997-10-23 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Jack Rudd
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Kaz
1997-10-26 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-10-27 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-27 0:00 ` APL argument W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-10-28 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-28 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Jan Karman
1997-10-28 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-28 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
[not found] ` <bosworth-2910972044300001@access59.accsyst.com>
1997-10-30 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-30 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-31 0:00 ` Robert Bernecky
1997-10-31 0:00 ` James L. Ryan
1997-10-29 0:00 ` Jack Rudd
1997-10-25 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-02 0:00 ` ANDREAS LEITNER
1997-12-02 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-03 0:00 ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-03 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-02 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-05 0:00 ` John Sullivan
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-29 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm
1998-09-10 0:00 ` Steven Katz
1997-11-18 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Larry Elmore
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-18 0:00 ` Kevin Swan
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
[not found] ` <3474C71B.536B12F6@cgocable.net>
1997-11-21 0:00 ` CVigue
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-24 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Coding for Obscurity Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Stephan Wilms
1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Alex Krol
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Jim Johnson
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Leon Jones
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
1997-12-01 0:00 ` ISONE
1997-12-01 0:00 ` ISONE
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Mark Wilden
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Al Christians
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-11-25 0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Matt
1997-11-24 0:00 ` Ed Falis
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Programming language vote - results Andy Knight
1997-11-20 0:00 ` firewind
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Terry Richards
1997-11-20 0:00 ` Andy Knight
1997-11-23 0:00 ` Alex Krol
1997-11-25 0:00 ` William Tanksley
1997-11-26 0:00 ` Ron Natalie
1997-11-27 0:00 ` William Tanksley
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
[not found] ` <65keij$mkd$1@nerd.apk.net>
1997-11-27 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-11-28 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-12-01 0:00 ` FRS DES
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Alan E & Carmel J Brain
1997-11-19 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
[not found] ` <01bcdad2$fa9fdf60$25a43a91@basil.omroep.nl>
1997-10-17 0:00 ` D'Arcy J.M. Cain
1997-10-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Randy MacDonald
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-10-14 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Robert S. White [this message]
1997-10-13 0:00 ` Gary L. Scott
1997-10-19 0:00 ` William Rapp
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