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From: mw@ipx2.rz.uni-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract)
Date: 1997/09/15
Date: 1997-09-15T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5vkfb2$f2p$2@trumpet.uni-mannheim.de> (raw)


Nick <nickle@calfp.co.uk> wrote via Owen Fellows <ofellows@calfp.co.uk>
about supposedly "pure" OO a la Eiffel vs. Ada-like modules and types as
different concepts and non-method procedures:
> But it it more likely that you just inherit MATHEMATICIAN somewhere in
> your heirarchy to save on typing.

I find that totally unacceptable, as it creates much too strong coupling
between library modules and their clients. Adding new features to a library
module shouldn't force even the smallest change in any previously existing
clients. The same applies to unavoidable visibility of every parent feature
in children - to avoid potential clashes, one is forced to revert to using
long_feature_names_saying_they_are_only_for_class_X_and_not_for_children,
which is a shame for a somewhat recent language like Eiffel (even in old
K&R C you had private - aka static - functions/variables), in my view. The
point isn't so much about children touching conceptually private features
of parents where they shouldn't do that (though that does get "interesting"
in large projects with say, 50 to 100 programmers of varying quality, and
I'd rather have that checked, too), but about clean separation of concerns
and minimal coupling.

> Having the same implementation as inherits is a hint that it probably is
> inherits!

No more than the implementation of loops via conditional goto is a hint to
drop explicit loops from the language and only provide conditional goto (and
perhaps call/return) as control structure. I expect most people wouldn't
follow the latter reasoning (nor do I), and likewise I disagree with your
above suggestion. In fact, I'd already use inheritance much less than what
seems to be usual in the Eiffel world (if Bertrand Meyer's books are a hint
about general usage): Even if it means more writing, I prefer having a mere
client for an object via a field over implementation inheritance: As long as
the representation type can be used unchanged via its abstract interface,
I'll do so. If it's mostly right, but still no proper "is-a" relation holds,
I'll also seriously consider a different subclass with some small changes
for the different need, and then using this adaption as client in that new
type which really isn't a proper subtype. I find this to be much better at
decoupling, more explicit about the essential relations between those types,
and more readable for my taste. The counter-argument about inefficiency due
to another indirection doesn't hold, as the above is only about source level
stuff: If performance is critical, make the compiler sufficiently clever to
inline the respective data and operations for such cases, which should be
quite trivial. The counter-argument about needing all the facilities which
are used for inheritance again for import doesn't really work either, since
the usage of library modules with qualified names for feature access doesn't
need things like renaming, redefinition, re-export or hiding; simply write
e.g. Math.Sin(X) and stop worrying about name space pollution. (Well, you
do have to think about module names, which should ideally be a hierarchical
name space, similar to Ada child packages or Java packages, but it reduces
the amount of relevant names dramatically.)

-- Marc Wachowitz <mw@ipx2.rz.uni-mannheim.de>




             reply	other threads:[~1997-09-15  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-09-15  0:00 Marc Wachowitz [this message]
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Libraries in pure OO [was Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract)] Graham Perkins
1997-09-17  0:00   ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-16  0:00 ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Owen Fellows
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-09-12  0:00 Marc Wachowitz
1997-09-12  0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-12  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-15  0:00     ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-12  0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-09  0:00 Marc Wachowitz
1997-09-15  0:00 ` Owen Fellows
1997-10-13  0:00   ` Bill Foote
1997-09-06  0:00 Ell
1997-09-06  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
     [not found] <EForKz.FJ7@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-01  0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00   ` Don Harrison
     [not found] <01bcb389$24f579d0$1c10d30a@ntwneil>
1997-08-28  0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-29  0:00   ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-29  0:00     ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]       ` <EFqDC8.342@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-02  0:00         ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-03  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-03  0:00             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-03  0:00           ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-04  0:00           ` Erik Ernst
     [not found]           ` <EFyrH2.7z2@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-09-04  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-09  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                     ` Richard Kenner
1997-09-10  0:00                     ` Tucker Taft
1997-09-10  0:00                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-10  0:00                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-12  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-11  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Fergus Henderson
1997-09-06  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-08  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-06  0:00                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-05  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-04  0:00             ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-05  0:00               ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                 ` <340fdb9f.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-09-06  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-06  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-05  0:00             ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-06  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-06  0:00                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-06  0:00                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-07  0:00                   ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-07  0:00                     ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                         ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-10  0:00                           ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-11  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-11  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-12  0:00                             ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-13  0:00                               ` Tucker Taft
1997-09-12  0:00                             ` Samuel T. Harris
1997-09-17  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                         ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                         ` Tucker Taft
1997-09-10  0:00                           ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                             ` Lee Webber
1997-09-15  0:00                               ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-12  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-17  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-18  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-18  0:00                               ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-09-20  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-10  0:00                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-16  0:00                       ` Frederic Guerin
1997-09-06  0:00               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-06  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-06  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-08  0:00               ` John G. Volan
1997-09-09  0:00                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-09  0:00                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-09  0:00                   ` John G. Volan
1997-09-10  0:00                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-10  0:00                       ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]               ` <dewar.873826570@merv>
1997-09-09  0:00                 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-11  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-07  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-08  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-16  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-17  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-05  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-01  0:00   ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-02  0:00     ` Nick Leaton
1997-09-03  0:00       ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-08-07  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-25  0:00   ` Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]     ` <3402d123.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
1997-08-26  0:00       ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]         ` <3402e51d.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]           ` <3402E8C9.3384D976@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]             ` <dewar.872631036@merv>
     [not found]               ` <3403F668.F6B57D97@calfp.co.uk>
     [not found]                 ` <34041331.0@news.uni-ulm.de>
     [not found]                   ` <3404696D.4487EB71@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                     ` Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
     [not found]                       ` <34048FDC.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-08-27  0:00                         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-28  0:00                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-28  0:00                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                             ` <EForsv.Fqo@ecf.toronto.edu>
     [not found]                               ` <JSA.97Aug29191413@alexandria.organon.com>
     [not found]                                 ` <EFqDAG.2zn@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-30  0:00                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-02  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-09-02  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-03  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                                     ` <EFwuzD.BxE@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-09-04  0:00                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-09-04  0:00                                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-05  0:00                                           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-06  0:00                                               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-08  0:00                                               ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-06  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-08  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-09  0:00                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                               ` Matthew Heaney
1997-09-10  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-11  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-11  0:00                                                 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-12  0:00                                                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-09-14  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-09-09  0:00                                             ` Robert S. White
1997-09-09  0:00                                           ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-10  0:00                                             ` John Viega
1997-09-10  0:00                                               ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'NOSPAM' to reply)
1997-09-05  0:00                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-05  0:00                                         ` Franck Arnaud
1997-09-04  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-09-05  0:00                                         ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-09  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-09-09  0:00                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-09-10  0:00                                               ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
1997-09-10  0:00                                                 ` Samuel Mize
1997-09-12  0:00                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-09-10  0:00                                             ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-10  0:00                                               ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-09-12  0:00                                                   ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-09-10  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                                   ` Matt Austern
1997-09-12  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                     ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-11  0:00                                               ` Robert S. White
1997-09-11  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-09-12  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-09-13  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-12  0:00                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-13  0:00                                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-09-16  0:00                                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-08-28  0:00                       ` Tucker Taft
1997-08-28  0:00                         ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-28  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-29  0:00                             ` Suzanne Zampella
1997-08-29  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                             ` <EFnK8D.Lsv@ecf.toronto.edu>
1997-08-29  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-30  0:00                                 ` Patrick Doyle
1997-08-30  0:00                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-09-01  0:00                                     ` Patrick Doyle
     [not found]                             ` <340E9BA2.32B3@rbgg252.rbg1.siemens.de>
1997-09-07  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                         ` <3406A707.787D@dmu.ac.uk>
1997-08-29  0:00                           ` Joerg Rodemann
1997-08-29  0:00                             ` Ralph Paul
1997-09-01  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
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