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From: lga@sma.ch (Laurent Gasser)
Subject: Re: Software Engineering is not a hoax...
Date: 1997/05/26
Date: 1997-05-26T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5mc1a2$icf$1@dbs1.sma.ch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: jfbode-ya023380002305972146180001@news.earthlink.net


In article <jfbode-ya023380002305972146180001@news.earthlink.net>, jfbode@nospam.mail.earthlink.net (John Bode) writes:
 
> The problem with using the term "software engineering" is that the practice
> of programming is still more art than science.  Computer programs are not
> like transistors, or gears, or steel I-beams that show up in real-world
> engineering.  We're not dealing with physical principles, but with the
> codification of thought.  Programming (in its current form) is more
> comparable to composing a symphony or writing a novel than building a
> bridge or designing a computer chip.  
> 
> And I feel it will always be that way.  We can attempt to streamline the
> process with OOP, with dynamic languages, with visual programming, but it
> is still a codification of thought, and humans do not tend to think
> logically.
> -- 
> John Bode
> "Paranoia is just reality on a finer scale" -- Strange Days

In the domain of codification of thought, computer scientist have made progress.
In my daily work, I sometimes encounter very old Fortran 77 code, not respecting
the principles of structured programming.  Once, it took me one hour on a 100 LOC
procedure to be sure that they simply were overlapping a IF-THEN block with a 
WHILE-REPEAT block thanks a GOTO.  It looked something like

label_1  CONTINUE
         CALL read_formatted_file(..., istat)
         IF (istat == 0) THEN
           statements
           :
           :
           GOTO label_1
         END IF
         statements

The equivalent code in Ada (or in Fortran 90 in my case) could be

loop
  read_formatted_file(..., istat)
  if (istat /= NoError) then exit; endif;
  statments
  :
  :
end loop


I am pretty sure that in 15 years from now, a programmer looking at code will
immediatly complain if the module is not following the principles of OO or is
not designed as an Abstract Data Type.

Another science (namely mathematics) has been able to codify thinking.  I admit
that production of great works has always been a question of creativity.  But you
rarely see mathematicians fighting against the Aristotelian principles of logic 
(true or false exclusively, no third case; logic of predicates).
-- 
Laurent Gasser (lga@sma.ch)
Computers do not solve problems, they execute solutions.






  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-05-26  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-05-15  0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]   ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00         ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19  0:00           ` NOT about "c above ada" W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-19  0:00         ` Any research putting c above ada? Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21  0:00                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-22  0:00                 ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-22  0:00                   ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-05-22  0:00                     ` Tom Moran
1997-05-25  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                         ` David Ray
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` jason hummel
1997-05-25  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Craig Franck
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                               ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29  0:00                                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Dann Corbit
1997-05-26  0:00                         ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` tstcroix
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-31  0:00                                   ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-02  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-09  0:00                                   ` Ralph Silverman
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` system
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-28  0:00                                 ` Rich Miller
1997-05-28  0:00                                   ` Bryce Bardin
1997-05-28  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-29  0:00                                       ` Nick Leaton
1997-05-29  0:00                                       ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-05-28  0:00                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-28  0:00                               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-28  0:00                             ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-29  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-29  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30  0:00                             ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-30  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Matthew S. Whiting
1997-06-03  0:00                                     ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` John Winters
1997-06-02  0:00                                     ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                       ` Martin C. Carlisle
1997-06-08  0:00                                         ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-17  0:00                                           ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-04  0:00                                       ` John Winters
1997-06-06  0:00                                       ` Volker Hetzer
1997-06-06  0:00                                         ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-08  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-09  0:00                                               ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11  0:00                                                 ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-11  0:00                                                 ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Anonymous
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Off topic: Crocodiles Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-11  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-11  0:00                                                       ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-12  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-06-11  0:00                                                   ` Crocodiles [was: Re: Software Engineering and Dreamers] Spam Hater
1997-06-12  0:00                                                     ` Anonymous
1997-06-17  0:00                                               ` Software Engineering and Dreamers Nick Roberts
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` Craig Franck
1997-06-08  0:00                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-06-09  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-09  0:00                                                   ` SE, Dreamers, and on and on and on W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-09  0:00                                                   ` Software Engineering and Dreamers John G. Volan
1997-06-10  0:00                                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08  0:00                                               ` Jason Shankel
1997-06-09  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                         ` <19970606.49CA70..12B91@ae124.du.pipex.com>
1997-06-07  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-06-09  0:00                                             ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-10  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-10  0:00                                                 ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-06-07  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-08  0:00                                         ` Mathew Hendry
1997-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ed Prochak - Woodland Consultants
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Craig Franck
1997-06-02  0:00                                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-06-07  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-02  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                                 ` <01bc7042$609289e0$cb61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-06-03  0:00                                   ` Off topic response to an off topic message--> was:Re: " H. Blakely Williford
1997-06-04  0:00                                     ` Craig Franck
1997-06-03  0:00                                       ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Ceri Stagg
1997-06-12  0:00                                           ` Philip Brashear
1997-07-21  0:00                                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
1997-06-09  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-10  0:00                                       ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04  0:00                                   ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-06-04  0:00                                     ` �Stephen!
1997-06-05  0:00                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-06  0:00                                         ` Volker Hetzer
     [not found]                                     ` <01bc7a5b$9ccdd900$21320f9b@mindlin>
     [not found]                                       ` <5o7ahj$oos$1@news12.gte.net>
1997-06-18  0:00                                         ` Philip Hindman
1997-06-18  0:00                                         ` Spam Hater
1997-06-18  0:00                                           ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19  0:00                                             ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-20  0:00                                             ` Spam Hater
1997-06-19  0:00                                           ` Mukesh Prasad
1997-06-19  0:00                                         ` Craig Franck
1997-06-18  0:00                                           ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-19  0:00                                             ` Steve Howard
1997-06-19  0:00                                               ` Anonymous
1997-06-20  0:00                                             ` Spam Hater
1997-06-21  0:00                                               ` Spaceman Spiff
1997-06-23  0:00                                               ` root
1997-06-22  0:00                                             ` Alicia Carla Longstreet
1997-06-19  0:00                                           ` Stephan Wilms
1997-06-24  0:00                                           ` David Thornley
1997-06-06  0:00                                 ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-06-06  0:00                                   ` Joe Charlier
1997-06-04  0:00                             ` S. Norby
1997-05-30  0:00                         ` Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` Mark Allen Framness
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-24  0:00                     ` Bill Anderson
1997-05-23  0:00                   ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Jeff Carter
1997-05-23  0:00                     ` William M.Gordon
1997-05-23  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-23  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-23  0:00                         ` John Bode
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Craig Franck
1997-05-25  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-26  0:00                           ` Laurent Gasser [this message]
1997-05-26  0:00                             ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                             ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29  0:00                                 ` Dean Runzel
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-29  0:00                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-30  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-05-30  0:00                                       ` John G. Volan
1997-05-30  0:00                                   ` Lord Shaman
1997-05-27  0:00                               ` Dan Evens
1997-05-27  0:00                                 ` Scott Stanchfield
1997-05-28  0:00                             ` Alan Bowler
1997-05-29  0:00                               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` Software Engineering is not a hoax... (was Re: Any research putting c above ada?) Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-24  0:00                         ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-24  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-06-12  0:00                         ` Software Engineering is not a hoax Keith Shillington
1997-06-12  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-06-17  0:00                           ` brucemo
1997-06-17  0:00                             ` Richard Turner
1997-06-17  0:00                               ` Spam Hater
1997-06-17  0:00                                 ` Richard Turner
1997-06-12  0:00                   ` Ralph Silverman
     [not found]                   ` <33859489.7FB8@spam.inno <5nplh1$276@nntp.seflin.org>
1997-06-13  0:00                     ` Paul Mesken
1997-06-13  0:00                     ` Michael Tippach
1997-05-20  0:00   ` Any research putting c above ada? Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Newsthread integrity Nick Roberts
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Any research putting c above ada? Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21  0:00       ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21  0:00         ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-16  0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
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