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From: kaz@vision.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: Any research putting c above ada?
Date: 1997/04/30
Date: 1997-04-30T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5k7qpi$nb3@bcrkh13.bnr.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: E9F3CF.2KK@research.att.com


In article <E9F3CF.2KK@research.att.com>,
Andrew Koenig <ark@research.att.com> wrote:
>In article <JSA.97Apr28190941@alexandria> jsa@alexandria (Jon S Anthony) writes:
>
>> Well, you rather miss the mark on this particular comment as at least
>> two of the requirements in question ("readability, safety,") are not
>> exactly specific to DoD.  Or do you think Bell Labs (or ATT) doesn't
>> really care about either issue?  Actually, for all I know, maybe they
>> don't and your comment is in fact spot on.
>
>OK ... suppose you're in the DoD and you're in charge of setting
>down preliminary requirements for a DoD standard programming language.
>If a language already exists that will meet those requirements, the
>DoD will use it.  If no such language already exists, the DoD will
>launch a huge project to create one and put you in charge of it.
>
>Under such circumstances, wouldn't you do whatever it took to be sure
>that no existing language could meet the requirements?  If not, you
>would probably not have reached a level in the hierarchy that would
>have allowed you to influence the decision in the first place.
>
>The nature of the decision process GUARANTEED that no existing
>language would qualify.  Therefore, no inference can legitimately
>be drawn from the nonqualification of any existing language.

That has too much of the flavor of a conspiracy theory. Even if it's true, what
does it matter? The tough requirements resulted in a strong language; who cares
where they came from?  The requirements are particularly unreasonable or
arbitrary; most of them are justifiable. Furthermore, a language was
successfully constructed which met most of them, indicating that the
requirements are not impossible to meet.  That language now has a proven track
record in demanding applications.

I think that a heck of a lot inference can be drawn from the nonqualification
of an existing languages to these requirements. It means that the languages
which failed to qualify were designed to weak, compromised requirements, if
any.

If I were in that position to draw those requirements, I would have darn well
made sure that they were tougher than those that underlie any existing
language; that way I would not be reproached for having made a compromise
in favor of something less than excellent.




  parent reply	other threads:[~1997-04-30  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 295+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-04-09  0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Konstantin B. Goldin
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Thomas Aho
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Bob Stout
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1997-04-10  0:00   ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-04-10  0:00   ` Philip Brashear
1997-04-10  0:00     ` CubanPete
1997-04-11  0:00       ` John Thomas Apa
1997-04-10  0:00   ` Tom Wheeley
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1997-04-16  0:00     ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-17  0:00     ` Stephen Leake
1997-04-11  0:00   ` Steve Jones - JON
     [not found]     ` <3359e813.340466234@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-11  0:00       ` James S. Rogers
1997-04-12  0:00         ` Danette & Murray Root
1997-04-12  0:00         ` Steve Summit
1997-04-12  0:00       ` Dave Wood
1997-04-13  0:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]         ` <3373409f.494266577@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-13  0:00           ` Dave Wood
     [not found]             ` <E8pxJ0.I3s@thomsoft.com>
     [not found]               ` <3355E0F2.56E5@aonix.com>
1997-04-18  0:00                 ` David Hanley
1997-04-20  0:00                   ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Stephen Leake
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Robert S. White
1997-04-14  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-15  0:00               ` Robert S. White
     [not found]                 ` <5ivtcu$puv@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-16  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-16  0:00                     ` Byron
1997-04-16  0:00                       ` John Winters
     [not found]                     ` <5j31dt$o3j@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-17  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-18  0:00                       ` David Thornley
     [not found]                         ` <338a1835.439086993@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-25  0:00                           ` Alan Bowler
     [not found]                     ` <01bc4da9$75237100$f4f582c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-04-21  0:00                       ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-21  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-12  0:00       ` David Weller
1997-04-13  0:00       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-27  0:00         ` Richard Riehle
1997-04-29  0:00           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-02  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-03  0:00                   ` Craig Franck
1997-05-03  0:00                 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-03  0:00                   ` Robert S. White
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Roy Grimm
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00                 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-02  0:00                   ` Samuel A. Mize
1997-05-05  0:00                     ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-06  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` Jay Martin
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-08  0:00                             ` Jay Martin
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-09  0:00                             ` Alan Brain
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-09  0:00                             ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-11  0:00                       ` deafen
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-01  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-02  0:00                     ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-02  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-05  0:00                         ` Steve Furlong
1997-05-06  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-06  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-06  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-14  0:00                         ` T Wheeley
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-05-10  0:00                   ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-11  0:00                     ` Wilbur Streett
1997-05-12  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-20  0:00                       ` T Wheeley
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-05  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-05-06  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Kevin Cline
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-03  0:00                   ` Student responsability (Was: Any research putting c above ada?) Laurent Gasser
1997-05-03  0:00                     ` John Bode
1997-05-05  0:00                     ` Steven Huang
1997-05-05  0:00                   ` Any research putting c above ada? John Apa
1997-05-06  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-06  0:00                       ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` John Apa
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-10  0:00                             ` John Apa
1997-05-11  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-14  0:00                                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-07  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-08  0:00                             ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-08  0:00                               ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-08  0:00                                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-09  0:00                                 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-10  0:00                                   ` Dan Shea
1997-05-11  0:00                                     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-08  0:00                       ` Alan Brain
1997-05-07  0:00                     ` Adam Beneschan
1997-05-09  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-05-09  0:00                     ` Larry Weiss
1997-05-11  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-11  0:00                         ` Jay Martin
1997-05-12  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1997-05-12  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-13  0:00                             ` Craig Franck
1997-05-13  0:00                               ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-05-14  0:00                                 ` Mathew Hendry
     [not found]                           ` <F4243E31257E3230.1400B453F19F7D1B.A88AC4B6A31D <5l8gf8$2jp@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>
1997-05-13  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-13  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-14  0:00                               ` T Wheeley
1997-05-15  0:00                               ` Ray Blaak
1997-05-16  0:00                                 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                         ` <5lb2mi$3i2@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-05-14  0:00                             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1997-05-15  0:00                               ` Jonathan Guthrie
     [not found]                             ` <EA8sny.HKJ@thinkage.on.ca>
1997-05-16  0:00                               ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-14  0:00                     ` M. Prasad
     [not found]                     ` <rayEA5A7D.932@netcom.com>
1997-05-14  0:00                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-05-14  0:00                       ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-17  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found]       ` <33508283.56dd@aonix.com>
     [not found]         ` <33526280.62b3@gsfc.nasa.gov>
     [not found]           ` <5ivths$pv2@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
     [not found]               ` <m2ragbrmij.fsf@acm.org>
1997-04-20  0:00                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-12  0:00       ` Tom Wheeley
     [not found]       ` <01bc46be$fb54cae0$3f6700cf@default>
1997-04-13  0:00         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Craig Franck
     [not found]       ` <33526cbf.41c6@cca.rockwell.com>
     [not found]         ` <5iusvd$118e@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com>
1997-04-14  0:00           ` James S. Rogers
     [not found]           ` <33530e22.5940@worldnet.att.net>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-18  0:00               ` Kenneth Almquist
1997-04-20  0:00                 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-22  0:00                   ` Alan Brain
     [not found]                   ` <335d880c.324@dynamite.com.au>
1997-05-04  0:00                     ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-05  0:00                       ` Alan Brain
     [not found]                       ` <336ea9ca.3c92@dynamite.com.au>
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-06  0:00                           ` Tom Moran
1997-05-07  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                           ` <5aedd9b0882ea1bf.69856d7f77cd2ae3.229bf1374681c88b@library-proxy.airnews.net>
1997-05-10  0:00                             ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-10  0:00                               ` Robert S. White
1997-05-11  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-16  0:00                               ` brad.balfour
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` T Wheeley
1997-04-19  0:00               ` Tom Wheeley
     [not found]           ` <33541be1.14961570@news.airmail.net>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-16  0:00               ` Dale Stanbrough
     [not found]           ` <3353a187.1062@bix.com>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-17  0:00               ` Tom Moran
     [not found]               ` <33545F8D.2AF4@worldnet.att.net>
     [not found]                 ` <335569F1.55A0@pratique.fr>
1997-04-20  0:00                   ` Nick Roberts
     [not found]         ` <5j0e5i$qgi@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
1997-04-16  0:00           ` Matthew Givens
     [not found]           ` <5j4ijn$3ta1@news.knox.edu>
1997-04-17  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-18  0:00               ` Tim Behrendsen
     [not found]           ` <33552C53.41C6@cca.rockwell.com>
1997-04-20  0:00             ` Steve Doiel
1997-04-20  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-04-21  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-14  0:00       ` Roy Grimm
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Terry Colligan
1997-04-11  0:00       ` Larry J. Elmore
1997-04-12  0:00         ` Terry Colligan
1997-04-11  0:00   ` James Youngman
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Steve Summit
1997-04-12  0:00       ` Dave Wood
1997-04-14  0:00         ` Chris Lomont
1997-04-16  0:00           ` Dave Wood
1997-04-11  0:00   ` Gary W Smith
1997-04-14  0:00   ` Alan Brain
1997-04-17  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-14  0:00 ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-04-14  0:00   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-15  0:00   ` Matthew Givens
     [not found]     ` <335ae79e.55ed@dynamite.com.au>
1997-04-20  0:00       ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-28  0:00         ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-04-29  0:00           ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-06  0:00             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-05-07  0:00               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07  0:00                 ` Jeff Carter
1997-05-08  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-09  0:00                   ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-09  0:00                     ` John G. Volan
1997-05-11  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` John G. Volan
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` John G. Volan
1997-05-13  0:00                         ` Alan Brain
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-16  0:00                             ` Alan Brain
1997-05-17  0:00                               ` Dale Stanbrough
1997-05-17  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-17  0:00                                 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-18  0:00                                   ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-18  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-19  0:00                                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-19  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-19  0:00                                     ` John G. Volan
1997-05-20  0:00                                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-20  0:00                                         ` Jeff Carter
1997-05-21  0:00                                       ` Alan Brain
1997-05-21  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-21  0:00                                         ` STL in Ada95 [was: Any research putting c above ada?] John G. Volan
1997-05-22  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23  0:00                                             ` Iterator Syntax [was: Re: STL in Ada95] Jeff Carter
1997-05-23  0:00                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23  0:00                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-05-23  0:00                                               ` Michel Gauthier
1997-05-22  0:00                                           ` STL in Ada95 [was: Any research putting c above ada?] Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24  0:00                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-12  0:00                       ` Any research putting c above ada? Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00           ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1997-05-02  0:00               ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-20  0:00     ` Alan Brain
     [not found] ` <5j078b$b25$1@NNTP.MsState.Edu>
1997-04-16  0:00   ` Peter Amey
     [not found]     ` <5j31lj$qnk@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-24  0:00       ` Suzette Norby
1997-04-25  0:00         ` Craig Franck
1997-04-28  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-29  0:00             ` Andrew Koenig
1997-04-29  0:00               ` Tom Moran
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku [this message]
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Alan Brain
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Craig Franck
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00                 ` Pat Rogers
1997-05-02  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-25  0:00         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-26  0:00           ` Larry Wissig
1997-04-26  0:00             ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-26  0:00               ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-04-27  0:00                 ` b-see
1997-04-26  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-28  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-26  0:00           ` Mike Haertel
1997-04-26  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-27  0:00             ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-28  0:00             ` Istvan.Simon
1997-04-27  0:00           ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-04-17  0:00   ` Daniel P Hudson
     [not found]   ` <335458A4.4C1D@worldnet.att.net>
     [not found]     ` <5j416b$hau@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>
1997-04-18  0:00       ` Mark & Zurima McKinney
1997-04-19  0:00         ` Craig Franck
1997-04-21  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found]     ` <5j30oa$ia9@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
     [not found]       ` <3355739E.7B24@pratique.fr>
1997-04-18  0:00         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-23  0:00       ` David Emery
1997-04-17  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-17  0:00 ` Chris Morgan
1997-04-17  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-18  0:00 ` David Emery
1997-04-21  0:00   ` Jim Hyslop
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-04-10  0:00 tmoran
1997-04-11  0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1997-04-17  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-05-03  0:00 tmoran
1997-05-03  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]   ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00         ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19  0:00         ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21  0:00                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00   ` Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21  0:00       ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21  0:00         ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-16  0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-16  0:00 Jon S Anthony
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