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From: matthewg@jtec.com.au (Matthew Gream)
Subject: Re: What is wrong with OO ?
Date: 1996/12/04
Date: 1996-12-04T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <584v8t$fip@pixel.jtec.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 32A4659D.347A@shef.ac.uk


Hi Ahmed,

On Tue, 03 Dec 1996 17:38:37 +0000, Ahmed (ACQ95AA@shef.ac.uk) wrote:

> Object Oriented Technology came with quite promising claims that if
> achieved can benefit the software development companies and
> organisations millions of pounds.

OO is no different from many other technologies. It comes with many
promises, and it can fulfill these if used in the right situations in
the right way. It is not a panacea, which is not a new or surprising
statement.

When you consider "Object Oriented Technology", you must also consider
Domain Analysis, Architecture, Patterns and other lifecycle goodies
which are not inherently Object Oriented, but seem to be a necessary
requirement for successful OO benefits.

> Some of these claims for instance
> 1 - high reusability of objects and frameworks

This can be achieved, but it requires discipline, investment and
experience.  Discpline to work hard towards reusability, and to
maintain that reusability (though evolution). Investment in terms of
the effort involved to establish generic solutions (generic solutions
are generally [:-)] much harder than specific solutions).  Experience
to make the correct decisions when constructing re-usable items (to
have some degree of visibility).

> 2 - Resilience to change, i.e. low software maintenance and evolution cost

How flexible is the software? This has a lot to do with architecture:
"if you don't get the architecture right up front, you may as well pack
up and go home" [quote made by a fellow engineer]. The architecture in
many ways predicts what will happen to the software over its
lifecycle.  If you don't get this right, you will need to change the
architecture: this is usually not a trivial task. This is not exclusively
an OO issue though.

OO includes inheritence. This promotes generalisation -- factoring out
commonalities -- which reduces dependencies. Reduction in dependencies
makes maintenance and evolution more predictable and cheaper. It is
perhaps predictability that is more important than anything, better to
correctly assess that all the costs are high up front, before starting,
rather than finding out later.

There are also CASE tools, which make evolution and maintenance much
easier and achievable (they also keep you focused at a higher level of
logic). Having a CASE tool take care of menial details (file
organisation, includes, class definitions, method stubs, etc) and take
over some of the verification roles (use cases and scenarios) is very
important. Though, CASE tools are not inherently an OO thing.

There are probably many more items you can mention here as well.

> 3 - Easier understanding by the user and Natural transition between the analysis, design, 
> implementation because they all use tangible perceived objects.

The transition is definitely a good thing. Being able to iteratively
build software is much more predictable as well. What you've said seems
to be much easier to say that to do, from the experience I've seen
around me. Getting the right architecture and objects up front requires
experience (and therefore, knowledge). It also requires an appropriate
balance between the actual system requirements, the system domain and
other domains. This requires time and experience. 

> However the reality is not so bright as claimed..if so, then nobody today thought to  develop a
> software on the traditional structural methods...
> My question is what is wrong with OO ? why it did not achieved its targets yet.?
> What are the main obstacles? 

I would say that it is slowely acheiving its targets and that there are
three main inter-related obstacles: time, experience and collaboration.
We need more of these to help the overall feedback loop.

> Is the problem with the immature OO methodologies ( OO analysis and design in specific ) ?
> or is it the deficiency in the development  tools used like C++ or Smalltalk ?
> or is it the steep difference in thinking between the traditional and OO schools ?
> or is it  related with the difficulty of object classification ?
> or is it  because of vast legacy systems done using the traditional methods ?
> or is a combination of many other factors...?

All of these would seem to be problems from my, limited, experience. The
thinking "mindset" is perhaps one of the most important. 

> I know that giving a precise answer is very difficult for such a complex question, but I like to
> hear the comments of people working at the feild and who suffered from many difficulties..

> I would really appreciate any participation, response or even leading to a good reference ,
> and would be very grateful if the opinions are supported by some evidences...

You want evidence ? I need more experience :-). Please excuse my bias
towards architecture in the above as well, I think that architecture
and organisation are very important. Architecture is everywhere, from
the big to the small (in the software, in the process, in the people,
in the organisation, etc). Most of the software problems I have
encountered can be traced back to architectural issues of one form or
another.

Cheers,
Matthew.

--
Email:  Matthew.Gream@Jtec.com.au
Phone:  (02) 390-0194
Fax:    (02) 364-0055
Post:   Jtec (R&D) Pty Ltd. 
        Unit 3, 118-122 Bowden St. 
        Meadowbank NSW 2114.




  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-12-04  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 465+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-12-03  0:00 What is wrong with OO ? Ahmed
1996-12-03  0:00 ` Fred Parker
1996-12-03  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-03  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Ahmed
1996-12-04  0:00     ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Jeff Miller
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-14  0:00         ` Chris
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Ahmed
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Matthew Gream [this message]
1996-12-05  0:00   ` Tim Ottinger
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Joe Winchester
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Russell Corfman
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-04  0:00     ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-06  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00           ` David Bradley
1996-12-08  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-10  0:00             ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-10  0:00             ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-11  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-11  0:00                 ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-12  0:00                 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-11  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00       ` Marnix Klooster
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Carl Weidling
1996-12-06  0:00       ` David B. Shapcott [C]
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Roger Vossler
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-10  0:00           ` Roger Vossler
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-11  0:00           `  Todd Knarr 
1996-12-11  0:00             ` Alan Meyer
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-12  0:00             ` Ell
     [not found]             ` <58mubr$i <58p5ou$dkm@news3.digex.net>
1996-12-13  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-25  0:00                 ` Weiqi Gao
1996-12-25  0:00                   ` Matthew S. Whiting
1996-12-26  0:00                   ` Bob Jarvis
1996-12-26  0:00                     ` Arthur Gold
1996-12-26  0:00                   ` Mike Rubenstein
     [not found]             ` <32aefdb0..406273038@news.nstn.ca>
1996-12-14  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Mukesh Prasad
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-04  0:00   ` Ahmed
1996-12-06  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00       ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-07  0:00         ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-09  0:00           ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-12  0:00             ` David Bradley
1996-12-20  0:00               ` Nigel Tzeng
     [not found]         ` <1996Dec7.151850.877@prim.demon.co.uk>
1996-12-08  0:00           ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-14  0:00             ` Kazimir Majorinc
1996-12-14  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-14  0:00               ` Jeff Miller
1996-12-16  0:00                 ` David Bradley
1996-12-15  0:00               ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-15  0:00                 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-15  0:00                 ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-16  0:00                   ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-16  0:00                   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-20  0:00               ` The Impossible Project: not so funny... (Was: what's wrong) Tim Ottinger
1996-12-20  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-21  0:00                 ` John DiCamillo
1996-12-22  0:00                 ` Guy Rixon
1996-12-22  0:00     ` Chip Richards
1996-12-04  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Roger T.
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Daniel Drasin
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Steve Heller
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-07  0:00     ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-14  0:00       ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-15  0:00         ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-15  0:00           ` Joseph W. Seda
1996-12-16  0:00           ` David Bradley
1996-12-19  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-12-07  0:00     ` Steve Heller
1996-12-07  0:00       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-09  0:00         ` Kenneth Mays
1996-12-14  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-14  0:00           ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-18  0:00             ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Caitlin
1996-12-15  0:00           ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-19  0:00                 ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-19  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-20  0:00                   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-21  0:00                     ` Michael Malak
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Ralph Cook
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-18  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00                 ` clovis
1996-12-27  0:00                   ` Tore Lund
1996-12-28  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-28  0:00                       ` Tore Lund
1996-12-27  0:00                   ` Jacqueline U. Robertson
1996-12-27  0:00                     ` Tore Lund
1996-12-28  0:00                       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-28  0:00                         ` Tore Lund
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Adam Beneschan
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00                             ` Neville Black
1996-12-31  0:00                             ` Tansel Ersavas
1997-01-01  0:00                             ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-10  0:00                             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00                                 ` Assembler most efficient??? (was Re: What is wrong with OO ?) Richie Bielak
1997-01-11  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-11  0:00                                     ` James S. Rogers
1997-01-11  0:00                                     ` Larry Kilgallen
1997-01-12  0:00                                       ` Joel VanLaven
1997-01-13  0:00                                     ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-15  0:00                                 ` What is wrong with OO ? Richard Kenner
1997-01-11  0:00                               ` Randy A. Ynchausti
1997-01-12  0:00                               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-12-29  0:00                       ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-31  0:00                           ` clovis
1997-01-10  0:00                           ` Bart Samwel
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-01  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-12  0:00                       ` Corey Minyard
1997-01-14  0:00                         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-13  0:00                       ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-28  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-30  0:00                       ` John (Max) Skaller
1996-12-29  0:00                         ` Rosimildo da Silva
1996-12-31  0:00                         ` Ian Joyner
1997-01-03  0:00                       ` markj
1997-01-03  0:00                         ` Natan
1996-12-28  0:00                   ` Stephen Pendleton
1996-12-31  0:00                     ` Edward de Jong
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-31  0:00                       ` clovis
1997-01-01  0:00                       ` Tore Lund
1997-01-01  0:00                         ` Tore Lund
1996-12-19  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-24  0:00             ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-26  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-26  0:00                 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-16  0:00           ` Karen A. Morrissey
1996-12-16  0:00             ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00             ` David Bradley
1996-12-09  0:00       ` Todd Hoff
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Snowball queries
1996-12-10  0:00         ` Steve Heller
1996-12-12  0:00         ` Samuel S. Shuster
1996-12-12  0:00           ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-12-13  0:00           ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00             ` Samuel S. Shuster
1996-12-16  0:00               ` Bob Kettig
1996-12-16  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-17  0:00               ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-18  0:00                 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-18  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-18  0:00                     ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-12-20  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` David Bradley
1996-12-20  0:00                       ` Chris Brand
     [not found]                       ` <01bbee11$dcae8460$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1996-12-23  0:00                         ` David Bradley
1996-12-19  0:00                     ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-23  0:00                       ` David Bradley
1996-12-23  0:00                         ` Jeffrey C. Dege
1996-12-19  0:00                   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-27  0:00                     ` clovis
1996-12-15  0:00     ` Damon Feldman
1996-12-06  0:00   ` David Bradley
1996-12-13  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-18  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Risto Lankinen
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-26  0:00     ` What sells IT (was: What is wrong with OO ?) Cameron Laird
1996-12-20  0:00   ` What is wrong with OO ? Jon S Anthony
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-20  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-23  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-23  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-12-26  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-26  0:00   ` drush
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Myles Williams
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Ranjan Bagchi
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Myles Williams
1996-12-07  0:00 ` Kazimir Majorinc
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-12-04  0:00 Ell
1996-12-04  0:00 Ell
1996-12-04  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-05  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-05  0:00 Ell
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Brian Gridley
1996-12-05  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-05  0:00 ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-06  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-09  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-12  0:00     ` Frederick Sickert
1996-12-06  0:00 ` H Brett Bolen
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Prashant Gupta
1996-12-14  0:00   ` Chris
1996-12-06  0:00 Ell
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-07  0:00   ` Steve Heller
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-06  0:00 ` Thomas Gagne
1996-12-06  0:00   ` Bob Crispen
1996-12-14  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-10  0:00   ` Art Schwarz
1996-12-07  0:00 Ell
1996-12-07  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-10  0:00   ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-14  0:00 ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-16  0:00   ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-18  0:00       ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-19  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]   ` <01bbeb6f$e2220c40$371883cc@beast.advancedsw.com>
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-17  0:00       ` Roger T.
1996-12-18  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
     [not found]           ` <01bbed37$23deaa80$371883cc@beast.advancedsw.com>
1996-12-19  0:00             ` Matt Kennel
1996-12-19  0:00         ` Robert C. Martin
1996-12-18  0:00 ` drush
1996-12-11  0:00 Ell
1996-12-11  0:00 Ell
1996-12-13  0:00 ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-13  0:00   ` Ronald Servant
1996-12-13  0:00     ` matt
1996-12-13  0:00       ` Dan Stubbs
1996-12-18  0:00     ` Harry Protoolis
1996-12-13  0:00 Ell
1996-12-13  0:00 ` drush
1996-12-15  0:00   ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Bill Gooch
1996-12-16  0:00     ` Nick Leaton
1996-12-16  0:00       ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-19  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1996-12-14  0:00 Ell
1996-12-14  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00 ` Tom Bushell
1996-12-22  0:00 ` Willy
1996-12-24  0:00   ` Fraser Wilson
1996-12-15  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-15  0:00 Ell
1996-12-15  0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-16  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-12-18  0:00 Ell
1996-12-18  0:00 ` Patrick Ma
1996-12-19  0:00 Ell
1996-12-24  0:00 Ell
1996-12-27  0:00 Ell
1996-12-28  0:00 Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-28  0:00 ` Tansel Ersavas
1996-12-31  0:00 Ell
1996-12-31  0:00 ` clovis
1996-12-31  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-01  0:00     ` Nick Thurn
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00 ` Ian Joyner
1997-01-02  0:00   ` David L. Shang
1996-12-31  0:00 Ell
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-12-31  0:00 ` Ian Joyner
1996-12-31  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-01  0:00     ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-02  0:00     ` Thaddeus L. Olczyk
1997-01-07  0:00   ` drush
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-02  0:00 ` Mike Anderson
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Dale Pontius
1997-01-02  0:00     ` Bill Hunter
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-02  0:00   ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-03  0:00     ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Matt Austern
1997-01-04  0:00   ` Valerie Torres
1997-01-06  0:00     ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-08  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Jay Martin
1997-01-09  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00                   ` Laurent Gasser
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jonas Nygren
1997-01-17  0:00                       ` Tom Bushell
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Michael Malak
1997-01-17  0:00                           ` Kent Budge, sandia, 
1997-01-17  0:00                         ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-15  0:00                     ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-01-10  0:00                 ` Joe Buck
1997-01-11  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Slavik Zorin
1997-01-11  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Thierry Goubier
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-14  0:00             ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Mark Woodruff
1997-01-17  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00         ` William Clodius
1997-01-09  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-09  0:00           ` Richie Bielak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Michael Malak
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-12  0:00               ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-09  0:00       ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-11  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Jay Martin
1997-01-27  0:00               ` Robert C. Martin
1997-01-30  0:00                 ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-20  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-21  0:00               ` John W. Sarkela
1997-01-23  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-25  0:00               ` Damon Feldman
1997-01-26  0:00             ` Sean Case
1997-01-26  0:00               ` William Grosso
1997-01-28  0:00                 ` Paul Keister
1997-01-28  0:00               ` Dann Corbit
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Matt Telles
1997-01-15  0:00           ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-19  0:00             ` Matthew Heaney
1997-01-12  0:00         ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00           ` Bart Samwel
1997-01-14  0:00         ` Vos nom et pr�nom
1997-01-16  0:00           ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00             ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-16  0:00               ` Patrick Doyle
1997-01-16  0:00                 ` Risto Lankinen
1997-01-18  0:00                 ` Robert C. Martin
     [not found]           ` <01bc0269$3fd55b20$ca61e426@DCorbit.solutionsiq.com>
1997-02-10  0:00             ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
     [not found]                 ` <3303A993.759E@pratique.fr>
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-21  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-02-22  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-02-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-20  0:00         ` David Emery
     [not found]       ` <dewar.852772995@mer <dewar.852833957@merv>
1997-01-10  0:00         ` Simon Willcocks
1997-01-10  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-10  0:00             ` Marky Mark
1997-01-10  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00                 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-12  0:00                   ` Josh Stern
1997-01-12  0:00             ` Martin ELLISON
1997-01-14  0:00               ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-17  0:00     ` Lawrence G. Mayka
1997-01-19  0:00       ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Bjarne Stroustrup
1997-01-21  0:00       ` rharlos*cybercomm.net
1997-02-10  0:00       ` richard
1997-02-10  0:00         ` Charles A. Jolley
1997-02-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-17  0:00             ` Sam Inala
1997-02-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-02-15  0:00           ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-02-11  0:00         ` Vlastimil Adamovsky
1997-01-07  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-10  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-01-12  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-11  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Chris Morgan
1997-01-13  0:00   ` Pieter Schoenmakers
1997-01-13  0:00     ` Fergus Henderson
1997-01-13  0:00   ` ak
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-01-26  0:00     ` Piercarlo Grandi
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Ulrich Windl
1997-01-23  0:00   ` Chris Bitmead
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 ` Tim Ottinger
1997-01-08  0:00 ` Paul Eric Menchen
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-01  0:00 Ell
1997-01-03  0:00 Ell
1997-01-03  0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-01-03  0:00   ` Eirik Mangseth
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Bill Gooch
1997-01-06  0:00   ` Steven Perryman
1997-01-08  0:00     ` Russ McClelland
1997-01-06  0:00 John Walker
1997-01-10  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-11  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-12  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-12  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-01-14  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-15  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-01-18  0:00 Ell
1997-02-11  0:00 Ell
1997-02-11  0:00 ` John Brady
1997-02-11  0:00 ` Matt McClellan
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Ketil Z Malde
1997-02-12  0:00   ` David B. Shapcott [C]
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Kevin J. Hopps
     [not found]     ` <33049C7C.41C6@wi.leidenuniv.nl>
1997-02-17  0:00       ` Kevin J. Hopps
1997-02-17  0:00         ` phil
1997-02-18  0:00     ` Simon Willcocks
1997-02-12  0:00   ` Hamilton, Robert Bryan       
1997-02-13  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-13  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-13  0:00     ` Hamilton, Robert Bryan       
1997-02-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Russ McClelland
1997-02-12  0:00 ` Bob Jarvis
1997-02-13  0:00 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen FOU.TD/DELAB
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