* Pre-Ada documents - Green Language @ 2014-05-23 15:41 Pascal Obry 2014-05-23 16:11 ` AdaMagica ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2014-05-23 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw) You may be interested by those PDF: http://pobry.blogspot.fr/2014/05/pre-ada-documents.html -- Pascal Obry / Magny Les Hameaux (78) The best way to travel is by means of imagination http://v2p.fr.eu.org http://www.obry.net gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key F949BD3B ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 15:41 Pre-Ada documents - Green Language Pascal Obry @ 2014-05-23 16:11 ` AdaMagica 2014-05-23 18:45 ` Dan'l Miller ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: AdaMagica @ 2014-05-23 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw) Thanx for sharing :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 15:41 Pre-Ada documents - Green Language Pascal Obry 2014-05-23 16:11 ` AdaMagica @ 2014-05-23 18:45 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-23 21:15 ` Shark8 2014-05-27 16:15 ` Luke A. Guest 3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-23 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw) Thank you very much! I would be interested in reading any Red (or Blue) Language documents that competed with Green Language during the latter 1970s. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 15:41 Pre-Ada documents - Green Language Pascal Obry 2014-05-23 16:11 ` AdaMagica 2014-05-23 18:45 ` Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-23 21:15 ` Shark8 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt 2014-05-23 23:51 ` Jeffrey Carter 2014-05-27 16:15 ` Luke A. Guest 3 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Shark8 @ 2014-05-23 21:15 UTC (permalink / raw) On 23-May-14 09:41, Pascal Obry wrote: > > You may be interested by those PDF: > > http://pobry.blogspot.fr/2014/05/pre-ada-documents.html > Thank you! I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across them. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 21:15 ` Shark8 @ 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt 2014-05-26 20:52 ` Dan'l Miller ` (2 more replies) 2014-05-23 23:51 ` Jeffrey Carter 1 sibling, 3 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Randy Brukardt @ 2014-05-23 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) "Shark8" <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> wrote in message news:kUOfv.434618$l83.312426@fx28.iad... > On 23-May-14 09:41, Pascal Obry wrote: >> >> You may be interested by those PDF: >> >> http://pobry.blogspot.fr/2014/05/pre-ada-documents.html >> > > Thank you! > I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across > them. You have some aversion to Yellow? :-) (There were four original proposals. And I think they all were published in some ACM publication (SIGPlan Notices??) - I remember reading them back when I was still a student. There's only a detailed proposal for Red and Green, of course, Yellow and Blue were chopped early. Randy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt @ 2014-05-26 20:52 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-27 2:40 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-27 5:18 ` Shark8 2 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-26 20:52 UTC (permalink / raw) On Friday, May 23, 2014 4:52:16 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote: > "Shark8" wrote in message > > Thank you! > > I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across > > them. > > You have some aversion to Yellow? :-) Although I cannot speak for Shark8, I would love to see whatever was prepared for Yellow or for Blue. > (There were four original proposals. And I think they all were published in > some ACM publication (SIGPlan Notices??) - I remember reading them back when > I was still a student. There's only a detailed proposal for Red and Green, > of course, Yellow and Blue were chopped early. Even if they were ruled out early, it would still be interesting to take a peek at what Yellow & Blue would have looked like. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt 2014-05-26 20:52 ` Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-27 2:40 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-27 11:46 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-27 5:18 ` Shark8 2 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-27 2:40 UTC (permalink / raw) On Friday, May 23, 2014 4:52:16 PM UTC-5, Randy Brukardt wrote: > (There were four original proposals. And I think they all were published in > some ACM publication (SIGPlan Notices??) - I remember reading them back when > I was still a student. There's only a detailed proposal for Red and Green, > of course, Yellow and Blue were chopped early. Here is a start on such an ACM bibliography. These are Edsger Dijkstra's commentaries on Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green, respectively, although I doubt that these commentaries are proper-supersets of the full specification submitted to the DoD: ["On the BLUE Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):10-15 (Oct 1978)]. ["On the YELLOW Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):22-26, Oct 1978]. ["On the RED Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):27 (Oct 1978)]. ["On the GREEN Language Submitted to the DoD", E.W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices 13(10):16-21 (Oct 1978)]. Wouldn't it be great if someone could motivate ACM to make scans of that historically-valuable issue available as bitmap-PDFs on ACM Digital Library? Is anyone friends with Vinton Cerf or any of the other people of influence in ACM? (ARPAnet-pioneer-&-Internet-luminary Vinton Cerf is the current president of the ACM.) Conversely, Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green went through public comment phases. Hence, they were probably distributed on paper to government-document-depository libraries by the GAO during the 1970s. Of course, Dijkstra's commentary in 1978 needs to be taken with a grain of salt because of Dijkstra's apparent general disdain of the entire DoD language-cultivation procurement process. Apparently as witnessed at the link below, Dijkstra had some skin in the game of seeing that all of Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green fail (or be tarnished or some other negative outcome, either partial or scorched-earth or somewhere in between): http://CraftOfCoding.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/dijkstra-on-ada ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-27 2:40 ` Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-27 11:46 ` Bill Findlay 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-27 11:46 UTC (permalink / raw) On 27/05/2014 03:40, in article aff1f881-6096-44b8-9e84-3d45a6c9b3b2@googlegroups.com, "Dan'l Miller" <optikos@verizon.net> wrote: > Of course, Dijkstra's commentary in 1978 needs to be taken with a grain of > salt because of Dijkstra's apparent general disdain of the entire DoD > language-cultivation procurement process. I have spent some time reading through the Dijstra archive, and there are few things for which he does not show disdain (apart from his ineffably wonderful self, of course). > Apparently as witnessed at the link > below, Dijkstra had some skin in the game of seeing that all of Blue, Yellow, > Red, and Green fail (or be tarnished or some other negative outcome, either > partial or scorched-earth or somewhere in between): > http://CraftOfCoding.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/dijkstra-on-ada That comment to Ershov verges on the unhinged. -- Bill Findlay with blueyonder.co.uk; use surname & forename; ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt 2014-05-26 20:52 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-27 2:40 ` Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-27 5:18 ` Shark8 2014-05-27 20:06 ` Robert A Duff 2 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Shark8 @ 2014-05-27 5:18 UTC (permalink / raw) On 23-May-14 15:52, Randy Brukardt wrote: > You have some aversion to Yellow? Not really -- but from what I heard (I thought it was you who commented on it) it was basically just Pascal with a few alterations/additions. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-27 5:18 ` Shark8 @ 2014-05-27 20:06 ` Robert A Duff 2014-05-27 20:20 ` Bill Findlay 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Robert A Duff @ 2014-05-27 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw) Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> writes: > On 23-May-14 15:52, Randy Brukardt wrote: >> You have some aversion to Yellow? > > Not really -- but from what I heard (I thought it was you who commented > on it) it was basically just Pascal with a few alterations/additions. All four were supposedly based on Pascal. I believe Yellow was closely based on Pascal, but still, more than "basically just Pascal with...", and the others were much more loosely based on Pascal. Ada (even Ada 83) is of course hugely different from Pascal. - Bob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-27 20:06 ` Robert A Duff @ 2014-05-27 20:20 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-27 21:38 ` Robert A Duff 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-27 20:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote: > Shark8 <OneWingedShark@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 23-May-14 15:52, Randy Brukardt wrote: >>> You have some aversion to Yellow? >> >> Not really -- but from what I heard (I thought it was you who commented >> on it) it was basically just Pascal with a few alterations/additions. > > All four were supposedly based on Pascal. I believe Yellow was closely > based on Pascal, but still, more than "basically just Pascal with...", > and the others were much more loosely based on Pascal. > > Ada (even Ada 83) is of course hugely different from Pascal. Wasn't one of them rather PL/1-like? BLUE? -- Bill Findlay ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-27 20:20 ` Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-27 21:38 ` Robert A Duff 2014-05-28 15:22 ` Bill Findlay 0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Robert A Duff @ 2014-05-27 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> writes: > Wasn't one of them rather PL/1-like? BLUE? I don't know. Blue is the one I know least about. I think it relies heavily on exceptions. I've read the Green, Red, and Yellow manuals, but only looked at Blue fairly briefly. - Bob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-27 21:38 ` Robert A Duff @ 2014-05-28 15:22 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-30 1:30 ` Nasser M. Abbasi 2014-05-31 22:19 ` Dan'l Miller 0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-28 15:22 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert A Duff <bobduff@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote: > Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> writes: > >> Wasn't one of them rather PL/1-like? BLUE? > > I don't know. Blue is the one I know least about. I think it > relies heavily on exceptions. I've read the Green, Red, and > Yellow manuals, but only looked at Blue fairly briefly. Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, but I stupidly binned them a long time ago. 8-( -- Bill Findlay ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-28 15:22 ` Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-30 1:30 ` Nasser M. Abbasi 2014-05-30 11:04 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-31 22:19 ` Dan'l Miller 1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread From: Nasser M. Abbasi @ 2014-05-30 1:30 UTC (permalink / raw) On 5/28/2014 10:22 AM, Bill Findlay wrote: > Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, > but I stupidly binned > them a long time ago. 8-( > what does "binned" then mean? You mean you threw them away? OMG !! These are very valuable collectable books now. You could have sold them for lots of money. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-30 1:30 ` Nasser M. Abbasi @ 2014-05-30 11:04 ` Bill Findlay 0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-30 11:04 UTC (permalink / raw) On 30/05/2014 02:30, in article lm8mvs$9ff$1@speranza.aioe.org, "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> wrote: > On 5/28/2014 10:22 AM, Bill Findlay wrote: > >> Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, >> but I stupidly binned >> them a long time ago. 8-( >> > > what does "binned" then mean? You mean you threw them away? Yes, put them in a rubbish bin (= trash can in leftpondia). 8-( -- Bill Findlay with blueyonder.co.uk; use surname & forename; ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-28 15:22 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-30 1:30 ` Nasser M. Abbasi @ 2014-05-31 22:19 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-31 22:25 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-31 22:28 ` Bill Findlay 1 sibling, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-31 22:19 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:22:26 AM UTC-5, Bill Findlay wrote: > Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, but I stupidly binned > them a long time ago. 8-( Other than various forms of delivery by Col. Whittaker, what was the primary distribution mechanism of the Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green tinman documents that underwent a so-called "extensive public review"? (If delivery by Col. Whittaker was the only mechanism, I cannot see how that qualified as an extensive public review, indeed perhaps not even a public review at all.) To be considered an extensive public review, these documents must have been made available publicly via non-ad-hoc document-distribution channels within the USA (e.g., GAO to government-depository libraries; entry as amendments into the Congressional Record; some form of DoD document distribution) or throughout NATO. Do any of the people active in HOLWG during the 1970s remember obtaining the Blue, Yellow, Red, or Green specifications via any source other than Col. Whittaker and/or reading about them indirectly via Dijkstra's commentary in the SIGPLAN Notices bibliography above? For example, yeah, back in the 1970s, I photocopied mine from the ones in the _________ library. Or, yeah, back in the 1970s, I send a small check to cover postage to the postal address of the ________ office in the federal government, then they arrived a few weeks later in the U.S. Mail. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-31 22:19 ` Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-31 22:25 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-31 22:28 ` Bill Findlay 1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-31 22:25 UTC (permalink / raw) On Saturday, May 31, 2014 5:19:14 PM UTC-5, Dan'l Miller wrote: > ... the Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green tinman documents I meant Ironman there. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-31 22:19 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-31 22:25 ` Dan'l Miller @ 2014-05-31 22:28 ` Bill Findlay 1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Bill Findlay @ 2014-05-31 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On 31/05/2014 23:19, in article fd6d0715-1512-4c43-8f72-d330776c54c2@googlegroups.com, "Dan'l Miller" <optikos@verizon.net> wrote: > On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:22:26 AM UTC-5, Bill Findlay wrote: >> Col. Whittaker (sp?) sent me a copy of each colour, but I stupidly binned >> them a long time ago. 8-( > > Other than various forms of delivery by Col. Whittaker, what was the primary > distribution mechanism of the Blue, Yellow, Red, and Green tinman documents > that underwent a so-called "extensive public review"? I don't know the answer to that, but it is a very interesting question. The implication is that there should be archived copies in official organizations. -- Bill Findlay with blueyonder.co.uk; use surname & forename; ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 21:15 ` Shark8 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt @ 2014-05-23 23:51 ` Jeffrey Carter 1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey Carter @ 2014-05-23 23:51 UTC (permalink / raw) On 05/23/2014 02:15 PM, Shark8 wrote: > > Thank you! > I'd be /very/ interested in Red and/or Blue if you happen to come across them. The Red RM is at http://www.iment.com/maida/computer/redref/index.htm -- Jeff Carter "Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?" Monty Python's Life of Brian 80 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: Pre-Ada documents - Green Language 2014-05-23 15:41 Pre-Ada documents - Green Language Pascal Obry ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2014-05-23 21:15 ` Shark8 @ 2014-05-27 16:15 ` Luke A. Guest 3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread From: Luke A. Guest @ 2014-05-27 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw) I would like to see the blue one specifically as I hear it was particularly weird. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-05-31 22:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2014-05-23 15:41 Pre-Ada documents - Green Language Pascal Obry 2014-05-23 16:11 ` AdaMagica 2014-05-23 18:45 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-23 21:15 ` Shark8 2014-05-23 21:52 ` Randy Brukardt 2014-05-26 20:52 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-27 2:40 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-27 11:46 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-27 5:18 ` Shark8 2014-05-27 20:06 ` Robert A Duff 2014-05-27 20:20 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-27 21:38 ` Robert A Duff 2014-05-28 15:22 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-30 1:30 ` Nasser M. Abbasi 2014-05-30 11:04 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-31 22:19 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-31 22:25 ` Dan'l Miller 2014-05-31 22:28 ` Bill Findlay 2014-05-23 23:51 ` Jeffrey Carter 2014-05-27 16:15 ` Luke A. Guest
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