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From: Georg Bauhaus <rm-host.bauhaus@maps.futureapps.de>
Subject: Re: a new language, designed for safety !
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 10:27:22 +0200
Date: 2014-06-20T10:27:24+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <53a3f06c$0$6610$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <11upxu8arp649$.3nmpvazrorn7$.dlg@40tude.net>

On 18/06/14 18:39, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 16:43:55 +0200, G.B. wrote:
>
>> On 18.06.14 14:30, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 11:34:01 +0200, G.B. wrote:
>>>
>>>> (Pardon? A contract is a manifest piece from the equivalence
>>>> class of paper, signed by two parties.
>>>
>>> And that does not defines the parties it only constrains them, which was
>>> the point.
>>
>> In fact, you declared "contract" to be a
>>
>> "framework of constraints imposed on the implementations"
>>
>> which a contract between two legal parties is not.
>
> Legal parties? What are you talking about?

Contracts (the real ones) and liability.

Not about the term that has not even been hijacked by the language
designers---the LRM has "generic contract model" only---but about
those legal terms to which extended assertions (LRM) are a subordinate
means to an end: software business, and programers employed.

The use of "contract" is not just metaphorical, not just an analogy,
not just an abbreviation.
   I only wanted to point out that the reason of existence of
those extended assertions in Ada can be seen as related to liability
(via real contracts), not, however, as a definition of "contract".

In particular, whenever buyers of software want liability then they
are buyers, not logicians. A bargain means application of contract law.

If you think that the term "contract" should be defined by your
notion of impossibly exhaustive formal semantics, then it will
be difficult to see a point beyond artificial and tautologous
linguistic confusion. You'd substitute a notion (contract) with
some of its remote consequences in Ada (extended assertions).

I think it helps make things clearly defined if "contract" continues
to stand for what is has been standing for generations, and that
words form the LRM in the context of assertions be used for what they
cover, not for replacing a notion, "contract" rather than serve it.

  reply	other threads:[~2014-06-20  8:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-06-03  1:37 a new language, designed for safety ! Nasser M. Abbasi
2014-06-04  0:21 ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-04  1:19   ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-04  4:05     ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-04  6:59       ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-04  4:12     ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-04  5:44   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-04 15:25 ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-04 19:43   ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-04 21:32     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-05  9:13     ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2014-06-05 15:33       ` Adam Beneschan
2014-06-05 19:19         ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-05 15:55       ` Adam Beneschan
2014-06-05 19:15         ` sbelmont700
2014-06-05 22:40       ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-06 15:13         ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-06 17:51           ` G.B.
2014-06-06 18:39             ` Niklas Holsti
2014-06-06 19:43               ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-06 20:42                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-08  9:40               ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-08 13:56                 ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-08 16:13                   ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-08 17:22                     ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-08 19:36                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-09  5:30                       ` Niklas Holsti
2014-06-09  7:06                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-09 16:07                           ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-10  7:44                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-10 16:31                               ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-10 16:52                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-06 18:52           ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-06 22:50             ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-23  0:40       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-23  0:43         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-23  0:51           ` Shark8
2014-06-23  1:47             ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2014-06-23  6:46               ` Shark8
2014-06-23 14:17             ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-23 15:39               ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-23 17:04               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-05  8:26   ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-09 10:03 ` Pascal Obry
2014-06-10  9:36   ` Stephen Leake
2014-06-10 10:48     ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-10 18:31       ` Pascal Obry
2014-06-23  1:01         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-10 12:28     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-10 12:42       ` Lucretia
2014-06-10 12:50         ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-10 13:00           ` Lucretia
2014-06-10 14:43             ` Brad Moore
2014-06-10 15:15               ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-10 20:28                 ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-10 20:39                   ` Pascal Obry
2014-06-10 21:04                     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-11  7:17                       ` Pascal Obry
2014-06-25 22:37                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-10 22:09                   ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-12 23:58                     ` Shark8
2014-06-13  1:28                       ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-25 22:41                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26  1:36                           ` Shark8
2014-06-26 10:19                           ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-25 22:40                     ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26  7:39                       ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-26  7:42                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26 10:07                           ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-26 10:18                       ` J-P. Rosen
2014-07-02 22:06                         ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-11  0:16                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-11  7:29                     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-11 19:22                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-12 11:48                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-12 16:59                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-10 15:33               ` Lucretia
2014-06-10 16:31                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-10 19:34                   ` Tero Koskinen
2014-06-11  6:46                     ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-11  8:45                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-11  9:05                       ` Simon Wright
2014-06-11 12:09                       ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-11 12:34                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-11 12:42                           ` björn lundin
2014-06-11 13:04                           ` Lucretia
2014-06-11 12:11                     ` björn lundin
2014-06-10 19:49                 ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-10 22:09                   ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-11  9:01                     ` Simon Wright
2014-06-16 16:22                     ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-16 17:11                       ` Ada platforms and pricing, was: " Simon Clubley
2014-06-17 19:34                         ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-17 20:16                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-18  5:56                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-18  6:34                               ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2014-06-18 19:57                           ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-19  3:46                             ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-22 19:50                               ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-22 23:38                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-23  6:18                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2014-06-23  7:42                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-23 11:17                                       ` Simon Wright
2014-06-23 17:14                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-23 19:21                                           ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-23 20:14                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-23 21:48                                               ` Simon Wright
2014-06-24  1:18                                                 ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2014-06-24  2:15                                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-24  7:51                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-23 21:52                                               ` Simon Wright
2014-06-24  1:04                                                 ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-26  3:24                                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26  3:27                                                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-24  1:01                                             ` Shark8
2014-06-24 10:24                                               ` Simon Wright
2014-06-24 11:25                                                 ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-24 15:55                                                   ` Shark8
2014-06-24 18:06                                                     ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-24 18:44                                                       ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-24 18:49                                                       ` Shark8
2014-06-24 21:25                                                         ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-24 16:48                                                   ` Simon Wright
2014-06-26  3:41                                                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-23 20:40                                           ` Simon Wright
2014-06-24  7:48                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-23 11:48                                       ` G.B.
2014-06-24  7:52                                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-06-24  8:33                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-07-01 10:28                                           ` Simon Wright
2014-07-01 12:41                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-26  2:50                                         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26 10:04                                           ` G.B.
2014-06-26 18:20                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-25 17:24                                       ` Niklas Holsti
2014-06-26  2:43                                       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-23  7:31                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-23 20:08                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-23 20:20                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-24 11:56                                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-24 12:13                                   ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-17 20:27                         ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-18  7:09                           ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-18 10:32                             ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-18 11:50                               ` Brian Drummond
2014-06-18 17:34                               ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-18 17:56                                 ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-19  7:22                                   ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-19 12:02                                     ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-20  7:03                                       ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-19 13:33                                     ` Lucretia
2014-06-20  7:07                                       ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-20 11:44                                         ` Lucretia
2014-06-20 12:47                                           ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2014-06-18 18:24                                 ` Lucretia
2014-06-19  7:26                                   ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-18 18:47                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-18 20:17                                   ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-18 22:51                                     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-19  8:51                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-19  3:35                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-19  7:34                                   ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-19  8:19                                     ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-19  9:11                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-19 12:08                                       ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-19 13:48                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-19 20:59                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-26  2:04                                           ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26 22:24                                             ` Shark8
2014-06-26 22:44                                               ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-26 22:51                                                 ` Shark8
2014-06-27 12:43                                               ` Ada platforms and pricing, was: Re: a new language, anon
2014-06-19 21:13                                         ` Ada platforms and pricing, was: Re: a new language, designed for safety ! Robert A Duff
2014-06-19 23:47                                           ` Adam Beneschan
2014-06-19 21:03                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-20  7:26                                       ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-20 19:50                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-21  8:35                                           ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-22 23:26                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-26  2:16                                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-20  9:54                                   ` anon
2014-06-20 12:25                                     ` Lucretia
2014-06-20 19:32                                       ` Ada platforms and pricing, was: Re: a new language, designed for anon
2014-06-18 17:01                             ` Ada platforms and pricing, was: Re: a new language, designed for safety ! Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-19  7:53                               ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-06-19 21:10                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-19 22:27                                   ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-16 21:31                       ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-16 23:02                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-17 11:14                           ` gvdschoot
2014-06-17 17:42                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-17 12:56                           ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-17 17:43                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-17 19:46                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2014-06-26  1:20                                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-17 19:41                             ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-17 20:08                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-18  5:46                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-18  8:02                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-18  9:34                                     ` G.B.
2014-06-18 12:30                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-18 14:43                                         ` G.B.
2014-06-18 16:39                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-20  8:27                                             ` Georg Bauhaus [this message]
2014-06-25 22:43                 ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-12 23:56               ` Shark8
2014-06-10 20:22         ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-10 21:14           ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-10 22:09             ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-10 22:09           ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-11  0:05           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-11  7:32             ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-11 16:50               ` G.B.
2014-06-11 19:20               ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-12  7:01                 ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-12 17:46                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-12 21:40                     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-13  6:37                       ` J-P. Rosen
2014-06-13 12:03                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-13 15:34                           ` Lucretia
2014-06-13 17:00                             ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-13 22:21                           ` Brian Drummond
2014-06-14 20:41                             ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-15  6:26                               ` Tero Koskinen
2014-06-16  0:11                                 ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-15 18:10                               ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-16  0:00                                 ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-25  6:42                   ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-25  7:29                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-25 12:17                     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-12 23:53         ` Shark8
2014-06-13  4:28           ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-13  8:17             ` gvdschoot
2014-06-13 13:16               ` Simon Wright
2014-06-13 14:13                 ` gvdschoot
2014-06-13 15:52                   ` Shark8
2014-06-13 17:04                   ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-13 20:10                     ` Simon Wright
2014-06-15  6:33                 ` Tero Koskinen
2014-06-15  7:47                   ` gvdschoot
2014-06-15  8:13                     ` gvdschoot
2014-06-15  8:18                     ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2014-06-16  0:16                       ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-16  0:35                     ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-16  6:08                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-16  6:19                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-16 12:08                           ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-25 22:28                             ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-16 12:30                           ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-16  6:22                         ` gvdschoot
2014-06-25  6:28         ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2014-06-11  8:27     ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-06-11 19:39       ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-11 19:52         ` Luke A. Guest
2014-06-12  1:39           ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-12  2:46             ` Dan'l Miller
2014-06-12 11:24               ` Peter Chapin
2014-06-12 11:36                 ` Lucretia
2014-06-12 14:48                 ` björn lundin
2014-06-12 22:12                   ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-13  8:36                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-13 15:55                       ` Shark8
2014-06-13 16:13                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-13 20:57                       ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-14  7:27                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-14 21:02                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-16 16:39                         ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-16 17:13                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-16 17:24                           ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-16 19:13                             ` Simon Wright
2014-06-16 20:25                               ` Simon Clubley
2014-06-17 16:10                                 ` Simon Wright
2014-06-16 21:53                           ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-16 23:02                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-06-16 23:42                               ` Robert A Duff
2014-06-17 19:18                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2014-06-14 21:05                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-06-15  6:52                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-15 10:04                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-06-15 12:25                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-17  8:18                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-06-17  9:13                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-18  7:55                               ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-06-18  8:31                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-06-12  8:16         ` Georg Bauhaus
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