(text)book for Ada noob

(text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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Hello!

I'm newly 'converted' to Ada (thanks to all folks in #ada providing
tons of info and patiently answering my questions) and since I like
reading dead-tree books (to reduce time required to stare at computer
screen) and learn from them, I'm looking for advice which would be good
book(s) to buy?

my background: I graduated computer engineering on the university many
years ago and had to learn several programming languages starting with
Fortran & Pascal and then C. Learnt a bit of Prolog and did my thesis
using (Zortech C++).

However, after formal education I did not do much programming for many
years until few years ago when I wanted to learn some new language,
possibly higher-level than C(++) which would be more safe and not to
fiddle with pointers and bugs resulting from their (mis)use.

Haskell looked interesting, I played with it for quite some time, but
the world of GUI (not to speak about other aspects of its ecosystem)
was quite raw.

We even managed to find few contributors being ready to work on the
project, but the Haskell learning curve was too steep for them and I
admit I do not grok monads very well.

The project stalled and after some I considered D (having some FP
features) and being (hopefully) more type-safe than C(++).

However, it seems that almost nobody is writing (GUI) apps in D and
not seeing the light, we thought to be pragmatic...use
Python+wxpython+cython (when required for speed reasons).

But that little worm in my mind was keep telling me that Python might
not be the best choice for larger program we plan to write and
maintain for several years.

That has finally brought me to consider Ada (and some people suggested
Modula-2/3), but after some research done, Ada and its ecosystem
(Gnat/Gps/GtkAda...) looks as dream-land. :-)

The points stated in

http://www.adaic.org/learn/materials/intro/part1/#features

article, look as something we were always looking for.  :-)

So, now I'm sold. ;)

about the project: I want to write open-source & multi-platform
desktop application (GtkAda seems to be the most mature and I like
Gtk+ and use Xfce) which has to use 3rd party (GPLv2+) C-library as
well as some complete Sqlite3 bindings.

Recently I moved from Linux (which I was using since '99) to
Free(PC)BSD which will be our native development platform.

Considering I am not tied to any legacy code, I'm free to take
advantage of new features provide in Ada 2005/2012.

When asking about adequate Ada book,  I was recommended Cohen's Ada as
Second Language, but I see it's a bit old, new copy costs $943 and only
used copies (don't know how much it would cost me with the shipping to
Croatia).

Another possibility I see in Barnes' Programming in Ada 2005.

What do you think would be more appropriate one for my
needs/skills/etc. and still possibly not too outdated and/or providing
some info of Ada's new(er) features?

Something else?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places 
of this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the 
living entity and bewilders him.

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Brian Drummond]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:28:57 +0200, Gour wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I'm newly 'converted' to Ada (thanks to all folks in #ada providing tons
> of info and patiently answering my questions) and since I like reading
> dead-tree books (to reduce time required to stare at computer screen)

> Another possibility I see in Barnes' Programming in Ada 2005.

> What do you think would be more appropriate one for my needs/skills/etc.
> and still possibly not too outdated and/or providing some info of Ada's
> new(er) features?

Barnes is very good, and it's usually the first one I turn to.

One thing that is missing, however, is a good starter on GTKAda 
programming. The GTKAda user guide is OK but not enough. The example 
programs are useful for showing individual features, widgets etc, but 
very little information about combining them into a coherent application.

There are some excellent high level libraries using GTKAda, 
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/gtkada_contributions.htm
and
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/aicwl.htm
but nothing much in the way of basic information between them.

For example, how do you use GtkAda with Glade-3 UI builder? (Dmitry would 
probably say: Don't. )  Alternatively,
http://wiki.ada-dk.org/building_gui_with_glade_3

How do you actually get hold of (and use) the filename selected in a 
FileChooserDialog? (Took me a couple of days playing around before the 
penny dropped...)

How should your zoom tool (over HERE) communicate a zoom setting with a 
drawing window (over THERE?) (IMO I ought to define a "zoomed" signal, 
emit it HERE and handle it THERE, but I haven't figured that one out yet. 
Passing around handles to the windows is messy and unmaintainable)

When should you use Scrollbar widgets instead of a ScrolledWindow?
The docs gloss over this, suggesting the ScrolledWindow is higher level 
and therefore better. But the answer is : when you want to scroll in 
drawing units (inches, cm, km, ems, picas) and don't want anything 
resetting the scroll bar limits to pixels when your back is turned!

I can't complain about this situation : I need to finish and write up a 
demonstrator showing some of these, but I haven't...

I'm sure there is more useful information, but it's in different places
and I'm sure I have overlooked a lot of it. (Hint, hint.. :-)

- Brian

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:41:15 +0000 (UTC)
Brian Drummond <brian@shapes.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Barnes is very good, and it's usually the first one I turn to.

Do you consider it's better suited for my situation than Cohen?

> One thing that is missing, however, is a good starter on GTKAda 
> programming. The GTKAda user guide is OK but not enough. The example 
> programs are useful for showing individual features, widgets etc, but 
> very little information about combining them into a coherent
> application.

Let me first absorb Ada's basics. :-)

> There are some excellent high level libraries using GTKAda, 
> http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/gtkada_contributions.htm
> and
> http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/aicwl.htm
> but nothing much in the way of basic information between them.

Thank you for the links...they're bookmarked now. :-)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every endeavor 
is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages 
to be a worker for whom the reactions of work have been burned 
up by the fire of perfect knowledge.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Brian Drummond]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:47:55 +0200, Gour wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:41:15 +0000 (UTC)
> Brian Drummond <brian@shapes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Barnes is very good, and it's usually the first one I turn to.
> Do you consider it's better suited for my situation than Cohen?

Both are good, but I find Barnes more readable.
If Cohen hasn't been updated to Ada-2005, I'd say yes.
(If it has, then I haven't seen that version!)

- Brian

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:32:37 +0000 (UTC)
Brian Drummond <brian@shapes.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Both are good, but I find Barnes more readable.

OK.

> If Cohen hasn't been updated to Ada-2005, I'd say yes.
> (If it has, then I haven't seen that version!)

It won't be updated - saw thread in some mailing list...btw, Cohen is
not any longer involved with Ada (according to his own words).


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, 
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kuntī, 
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does 
not delight in them.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Vinzent Höfler]

Gour <gour@atmarama.net> wrote:

> Another possibility I see in Barnes'
> Programming in Ada 2005.

I would definitely recommend that. I own the previous edition and it 
has always been a good reference for me.

Then there's «Concurrency in Ada» by Burns/Wellings, if you want to 
dig deeper into Ada's tasking stuff. Maybe not that much relevant to 
GUI, but IMHO absolutely worth reading.


Vinzent.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Patrick]

Hi Gour

Try abebooks.com. I have bought about 20 Ada books from this site. Also please consider that the Ada 95 subset of Ada 2005 has been maintained since 95 and is a good as a starting point. Many Ada 95 books are very good and can be purchased for < $5. Ada 83 -> 95 -> is really additive.

-Patrick

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
Patrick <patrick@spellingbeewinnars.org> wrote:

> Try abebooks.com. I have bought about 20 Ada books from this site.

I also have good experience with abebooks.com...

> Also please consider that the Ada 95 subset of Ada 2005 has been
> maintained since 95 and is a good as a starting point. Many Ada 95
> books are very good and can be purchased for < $5.

I see that both Cohen & Barnes are cited the most and both are quite
big, so for the beginning I believe one of them will make me busy for
some time...just to decide which one...both are pricey, but Cohen can
be bought only as used one (~$950 is too much for my budget) or to buy
new Barnes.


Sincerely,
Gour


-- 
Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, 
and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus, 
the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)]

Le Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:50:48 +0200, Gour <gour@atmarama.net> a écrit:

> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
> Patrick <patrick@spellingbeewinnars.org> wrote:
>
>> Try abebooks.com. I have bought about 20 Ada books from this site.
>
> I also have good experience with abebooks.com...
>
>> Also please consider that the Ada 95 subset of Ada 2005 has been
>> maintained since 95 and is a good as a starting point. Many Ada 95
>> books are very good and can be purchased for < $5.
>
> I see that both Cohen & Barnes are cited the most […]

John Barnes is also the one who wrote the Ada Rationales, as you can see  
on the [Rationale for Ada  
2012](http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rat/html/Rat12-TTL.html) cover  
page.


-- 
“Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semi-colons.” [1]
“Structured Programming supports the law of the excluded muddle.” [1]
[1]: Epigrams on Programming — Alan J. — P. Yale University

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Patrick]

Barnes and Cohen were the first two I bought based on advice i received. I do not recommend them as first books. The Wikipedia book is actually pretty good(I printed it) but my favourite is probably building parallel, embedded and real time applications with ada by McCormick/Singhoff/Hugues.

It's easy reading late at night, which I can't say for some of the others I have read.

I don't think it's available used though and will cost non-trivial money. Barnes 95 book seemed similar to the 2005 one, it can be purchased for far less.

I am so happy to see more people interested in Ada, maybe I will start a blog sometime and I can review the books there.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 06:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
Patrick <patrick@spellingbeewinnars.org> wrote:

> Barnes and Cohen were the first two I bought based on advice i
> received. I do not recommend them as first books.

OK. Point taken. I'm considering to buy one of the two (both would be
too expensive for my Croatian budget) so be used for long-term desktop
companion after becoming somewhat familiar with the language so I can
start (slowly) working on my  concrete project.

> The Wikipedia book is actually pretty good(I printed it)

That's what I read now and also have opened tab with Ada 95: The Craft
of Object-Oriented Programming

> Barnes 95 book seemed similar to the 2005 one, it can be
> purchased for far less.

Both Barnes (new) and Cohen (used) I could get for ~$100. Which would
you recommend to me?

> I am so happy to see more people interested in Ada, maybe I will
> start a blog sometime and I can review the books there.

I must say I'm sad spending (too) much time evaluating/fiddling with
languages/environments not being mature enough and/or suitable for the
task...with Ada I've such a good feeling...like a love at the first
sight. :-)

I'm sure we'll dedicate some blog posts to share our excitement with
the Ada hopefully helping (some) people waiting for promise-ware. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
One who is not disturbed in mind even amidst the threefold 
miseries or elated when there is happiness, and who is free 
from attachment, fear and anger, is called a sage of steady mind.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Patrick]

Hi Gour

It's a tough call between Cohen and Barnes. I would recommend Barnes 95 + Cohen or Barnes 2005.

Barnes 2005 is expenisve, too expensive, we feel the pain in Canada too


There are also several other books available free online, would you like lnks?

-Patrick

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
Patrick <patrick@spellingbeewinnars.org> wrote:

> It's a tough call between Cohen and Barnes. I would recommend Barnes
> 95 + Cohen or Barnes 2005.

I'd opt for only one 'cause they're expensive.

Moreover, Cohen + Barnes is 2K pages and we plan to do our project in
spare time, so having single and good-enough reference is preferrable.

> There are also several other books available free online, would you
> like lnks?

Sure, although I'd like to focus on less books and therefore trying to
decide on the right one which is not easy when I cannot hold 'em in my
hands.


Sincerely,
Gour


-- 
A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, 
who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of 
proprietorship and is devoid of false ego — he alone can 
attain real peace.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Patrick]

barnes 95 will be $5. Significant parts of the book were reused in the 2005

I recommend printing the wikipedia book, reading that and then deciding if you even need the 2005 features. Again just using the 95 subset does not mean you are using software that has not been updated since 1995. Please don't sell your left testicule to a lab until you are sure. I spent way too much before discovering the joy of used books.

Here is another book online that I know of:

http://www.pegasoft.ca/resources/boblap/book.html

I scraped the site and changed the background to white, converted it to PDF and printed it. If you would like the B & W pdf, I can send it to you.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
Patrick <patrick@spellingbeewinnars.org> wrote:

> Please don't sell your left testicule to a lab until you are sure. 
> I spent way too much before discovering the joy of used
> books.

The problem with used books here is that shipping usually spoils the
party.


Sincerely,
Gour

> I scraped the site and changed the background to white, converted it
> to PDF and printed it. If you would like the B & W pdf, I can send it
> to you.

Sure.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. 
Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. 
The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because 
they have seen the truth.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Georg Bauhaus]

On 24.10.12 15:59, Gour wrote:
> Both Barnes (new) and Cohen (used) I could get for ~$100. Which would
> you recommend to me?

Cohen's is detailed and answers many "professional" questions
if you study a chapter, and study the chapter again, and do
the exercises where available, or implicit.

Barnes's, to me, is of a more explicitly didactic (but not
overly didactic) nature, and different in that the reader can
work hard on the many good exercises.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:18:53 +0200
Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauhaus@futureapps.de> wrote:

> Cohen's is detailed and answers many "professional" questions
> if you study a chapter, and study the chapter again, and do
> the exercises where available, or implicit.

Interesting...how much is standard Ada library covered?

For instance, I've D Programming Language book and the whole book is
about language itself not touching standard library at all...maybe good
to *learn* the language, but not to *use* it.

> Barnes's, to me, is of a more explicitly didactic (but not
> overly didactic) nature, and different in that the reader can
> work hard on the many good exercises.

Hmm...I'm not sure I'm closer with my decision. :-)


Sincerely,
Gour 


-- 
Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And 
whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 06:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
Patrick <patrick@spellingbeewinnars.org> wrote:

> The Wikipedia book is actually pretty good(I printed it)

Forgot to ask whether you meant this one:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ada_Programming


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
He who is regulated in his habits of eating, sleeping, recreation 
and work can mitigate all material pains by practicing the yoga system.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Patrick]

> Forgot to ask whether you meant this one:
> 
> 
> 
> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ada_Programming
> 
> 
yep, there are about 4 or 5 others online too, one you have met AdaCraft

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:24:09 -0400
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> 	Don't know about the applicability these days, but "Ada for
> Software Engineers, 2nd Ed." [Ben-Ari, 2009 Springer-Verlag] might be
> of interest.

Saw that one on Amazon, but review(s) were not particularly rave.


Sincerely,
Gour


-- 
One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every endeavor 
is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages 
to be a worker for whom the reactions of work have been burned 
up by the fire of perfect knowledge.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Marius Amado-Alves]

> > 	Don't know about the applicability these days, but "Ada for
> > Software Engineers, 2nd Ed." [Ben-Ari, 2009 Springer-Verlag] might be
> > of interest.
> 
> Saw that one on Amazon, but review(s) were not particularly rave.

Then the reviews are wrong. This is an excellent book. Typeset much better than Barnes (or the ARM). I've started with Ben-Ari and the ARM for Ada 1995. Then I got Barnes for Ada 2005. Isn't Ben-Ari book for Ada 95 online now?

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Marius Amado-Alves <amado.alves@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then the reviews are wrong. 

Really?

> This is an excellent book. Typeset much better than Barnes (or the
> ARM). 

Thank you for sharing. The title of the book is quite relevant for my
use case.

> I've started with Ben-Ari and the ARM for Ada 1995. Then I got Barnes
> for Ada 2005. 

How do you like Barnes?

> Isn't Ben-Ari book for Ada 95 online now?

Hmm...I know that Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming is
online...although it would be nice to be able to see the book before
buying it...they're expensive for us here in Croatia.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Jesperq]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:30:02 PM UTC+1, Gour wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> Hmm...I know that Ada 95: The Craft of Object-Oriented Programming is
> online...although it would be nice to be able to see the book before
> buying it...they're expensive for us here in Croatia.
> 

Preview from Google Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lA39tn1xzdIC&redir_esc=y

/Jesper

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Marius Amado-Alves]

> How do you like Barnes?
It's excellent, it's the right size for big Ada, covers all the subleties of the language.

Ben-Ari's book is sort of a digest, but it's also excellent and well worth reading. Ben-Ari's for Ada 95 is online. I would print and bind it. It's short and has the best typesetting.

There are nice things by Barnes online too, the rationales, and an intro to Ada 2012.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Jeffrey Carter]

On 10/24/2012 01:28 AM, Gour wrote:
>
> I'm newly 'converted' to Ada (thanks to all folks in #ada providing
> tons of info and patiently answering my questions) and since I like
> reading dead-tree books (to reduce time required to stare at computer
> screen) and learn from them, I'm looking for advice which would be good
> book(s) to buy?

Not a dead-tree book (unless you print it), but good for a person in your 
position, is /Ada Distilled/ by Richard Riehle

http://www.adaic.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Ada-Distilled-24-January-2011-Ada-2005-Version.pdf

It's Ada-95, but once you've got that down you can easily absorb the changes 
from more recent versions.

The information at

http://www.adaic.org/learn/materials/

will no doubt be useful to you.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"It's all right, Taggart. Just a man and a horse being hung out there."
Blazing Saddles
34

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Gour]

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On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:17:20 -0700
Jeffrey Carter <spam.jrcarter.not@spam.not.acm.org> wrote:

> Not a dead-tree book (unless you print it), but good for a person in
> your position, is /Ada Distilled/ by Richard Riehle
> 
> http://www.adaic.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Ada-Distilled-24-January-2011-Ada-2005-Version.pdf
> 
> It's Ada-95, but once you've got that down you can easily absorb the
> changes from more recent versions.

Thank you. It's interesting one...

> The information at
> 
> http://www.adaic.org/learn/materials/
> 
> will no doubt be useful to you.


I'm just reading it. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, 
which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kuntī, 
such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does 
not delight in them.

http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

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Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Randy Brukardt]

"Jeffrey Carter" <spam.jrcarter.not@spam.not.acm.org> wrote in message 
news:k69lt1$kts$1@dont-email.me...
> On 10/24/2012 01:28 AM, Gour wrote:
...
> Not a dead-tree book (unless you print it), but good for a person in your 
> position, is /Ada Distilled/ by Richard Riehle
>
> http://www.adaic.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Ada-Distilled-24-January-2011-Ada-2005-Version.pdf
>
> It's Ada-95, but once you've got that down you can easily absorb the 
> changes from more recent versions.

Ummm, you linked to the Ada 2005 version of Ada Distilled. That version 
definitely is not Ada 95 only. (That should be obvious from the name of the 
file and the date, not the mention the giant Lime-Green Ada 2005 at the top. 
:-)

Perhaps you haven't read it for a while...(I admit that I haven't, too busy 
creating new language to read about the stuff we already did.)

                                                  Randy.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Jeffrey Carter]

On 11/08/2012 11:00 PM, Randy Brukardt wrote:
 >
 > Ummm, you linked to the Ada 2005 version of Ada Distilled. That version
 > definitely is not Ada 95 only. (That should be obvious from the name of the
 > file and the date, not the mention the giant Lime-Green Ada 2005 at the top.
 > :-)

I just found the link and copied it. I haven't looked at the book since the 
original version. I didn't realize it had been updated. Glad to hear it.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"It is the German who is so uncourteous to his verbs."
A Scandal in Bohemia
122

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Paul Rubin]

Gour <gour@atmarama.net> writes:
> my background: I graduated computer engineering on the university many
> years ago and had to learn several programming languages starting with
> Fortran & Pascal and then C. Learnt a bit of Prolog and did my thesis
> using (Zortech C++).

http://adahome.com/Ammo/cpp2ada.html is not a textbook and may be stuff
that you by now already know, but I found it very informative since I
didn't know anything about Ada when I first read it.  It's about
switching from C++ to Ada.

Re: (text)book for Ada noob

[Simon Wright]

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:

> http://adahome.com/Ammo/cpp2ada.html is not a textbook and may be stuff
> that you by now already know, but I found it very informative since I
> didn't know anything about Ada when I first read it.  It's about
> switching from C++ to Ada.

This turned into a book:
http://www.amazon.com/Programmers-International-Computer-Science-Series/dp/0201403633

I used to own it, but can't remember now how helpful it was. Perhaps
that's because I was never really a C++ programmer.