From: nigel@access1.digex.net (Nigel Tzeng)
Subject: Re: Ariane 5 - not an exception?
Date: 1996/07/31
Date: 1996-07-31T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4toidc$lam@access1.digex.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 838805582snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk
In article <838805582snz@nezumi.demon.co.uk>,
Martin Tom Brown <Martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <31FE35BC.1A0D@sanders.lockheed.com>
> smoneill@sanders.lockheed.com "Steve O'Neill" writes:
[snip]
>It goes further back than that - the requirement specifications were
>seriously at fault and incomplete. It was *not* a stated requirement
>that the unit would function correctly on the Ariane 5 trajectory.
Well, it also states that had adequate simulations been done the fault
would have been detected fairly early in the sims. The biggest flaw
in their simulation testing was not actually using flight s/w and
hardware during the testing (well, at least using the Engineering Test
Units for simulation).
Many compounding errors were required to create this problem.
[snip]
>This was what surprised me - coming from an environment (not safety critical)
>where continued function even if degraded is preferred to hard shutdown.
>It seems unduly perverse to guarantee total system failure once an
>untrapped exception occurs. Is it really safer to blow the thing out of
>the sky than inject its payload into an inaccurate orbit?
>After all the hardware failsafe *will* destroy it automatically
>if the trajectory deviates sufficiently - as happened when the IRS
>started feeding the navigation computer diagnostic bit patterns as data.
Well, that surprised me a little. Granted that their facilites are in
the middle of nowhere I still would have expected that range safety
would have destroyed the vehicle given description of the attitude
deviation (20 degree AOA...that must have been interesting) rather
than having the breakup of the vehicle initiate the destructs...then
again it happened only 4 seconds after the nozzles were commanded to
extreme positions.
Anyone know off the cuff what the ER or WR would have done in this
case? I'm assuming that they can see the relevant telemetry...at
least the LCC I'm working on has requirements that they can but
I'm new to the launch vehicle world.
[snip]
>Regards,
>--
>Martin Brown <martin@nezumi.demon.co.uk> __ CIS: 71651,470
>Scientific Software Consultancy /^,,)__/
Nigel
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1996-07-31 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 194+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1996-07-25 0:00 Ariane 5 - not an exception? Simon Bluck
1996-07-25 0:00 ` Multiple reasons for failure of Ariane 5 (was: Re: Ariane 5 - not an exception?) Kirk Beitz
1996-07-26 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Darren C Davenport
1996-08-06 0:00 ` U32872
1996-08-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Pascal Martin @lone
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-10 0:00 ` dwnoon
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-15 0:00 ` dwnoon
1996-08-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-20 0:00 ` dwnoon
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-22 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-31 0:00 ` Ada versus PL/I " Richard Riehle
1996-09-02 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-02 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-09-03 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-03 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1996-09-17 0:00 ` shmuel
1996-09-17 0:00 ` Jay McFadyen
1996-09-18 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-09-20 0:00 ` shmuel
1996-09-03 0:00 ` J. Kanze
1996-09-07 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-09 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-09 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-09 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-03 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-04 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-07 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-06 0:00 ` PL/I or PL/1 Larry Hazel
1996-09-11 0:00 ` Multiple reasons for failure of Ariane 5 (was: Re: Ariane 5 - not an exception?) J.Worringen
1996-09-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-14 0:00 ` David Alex Lamb
1996-09-14 0:00 ` Use DejaNews to retrieve Ariane discussion David Alex Lamb
1996-09-19 0:00 ` Earl H. Kinmonth
1996-08-11 0:00 ` Multiple reasons for failure of Ariane 5 (was: Re: Ariane 5 - not an exception?) ++ robin
[not found] ` <4uibvh$References: <Dv45EJ.8r@fsa.bris.ac.uk>
1996-08-16 0:00 ` A. Grant
1996-08-08 0:00 ` bohn
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-23 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-26 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-27 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-28 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-08-29 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-30 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-30 0:00 ` David Weller
1996-09-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-06 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-09-09 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-30 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-26 0:00 ` Dave Jones
1996-08-27 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-30 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-06 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-09-18 0:00 ` Merlin Dorfman
1996-09-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-30 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-30 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-09-06 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-09-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-26 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Ariane 5 - not an exception? ++ robin
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Bill Angel
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Paul_Green
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Lloyd Fischer
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Bob Kurtz
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Nancy Mead
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Steve O'Neill
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1996-08-01 0:00 ` root
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Richard Shetron
1996-07-30 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-04 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-05 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-08-06 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-13 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Darren C Davenport
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Kirk Bradley
1996-08-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-18 0:00 ` PL/I Versus Ada (Was: Arianne ...) Richard Riehle
1996-08-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Lon Amick
1996-08-21 0:00 ` Tony Konashenok
1996-08-28 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-29 0:00 ` Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D.
1996-08-30 0:00 ` Tony Konashenok
1996-08-30 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-30 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-21 0:00 ` Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D.
1996-08-21 0:00 ` Tim Dugan
1996-08-23 0:00 ` arbuckj
1996-08-22 0:00 ` Ariane 5 - not an exception? ++ robin
1996-08-22 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-14 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-19 0:00 ` Chris Papademetrious
1996-08-22 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-22 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1996-08-22 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-24 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-26 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-08-27 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-28 0:00 ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-08-28 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-29 0:00 ` Ted Dennison
1996-08-30 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-23 0:00 ` Bob Gilbert
1996-08-24 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-25 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-27 0:00 ` Tom Speer
1996-08-26 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-20 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Steve O'Neill
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng [this message]
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-03 0:00 ` Thomas Kendelbacher
1996-08-01 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-05 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Mark van Walraven
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Pascal Martin @lone
1996-08-03 0:00 ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-08-05 0:00 ` system
1996-08-06 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Darius Blasband
1996-08-10 0:00 ` dwnoon
1996-08-12 0:00 ` Thomas Kendelbacher
1996-08-13 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Roy Gardiner
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Lance Kibblewhite
1996-08-13 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-15 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-05 0:00 ` Steve O'Neill
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1996-08-08 0:00 ` Steve O'Neill
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Pat Rogers
1996-08-09 0:00 ` JP Thornley
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Francis Lipski
1996-08-07 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1996-08-09 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-13 0:00 ` ++ robin
1996-08-13 0:00 ` Steve O'Neill
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-02 0:00 ` Craig P. Beyers
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-02 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-06 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Bob Gilbert
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1996-07-30 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-07-31 0:00 ` Greg Bond
1996-08-03 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-07-26 0:00 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-26 0:00 ` JP Thornley
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-29 0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1996-07-29 0:00 ` JP Thornley
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-07-31 0:00 ` JP Thornley
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-08-02 0:00 ` JP Thornley
1996-08-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-27 0:00 ` Bill Angel
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Dr. Richard Botting
1996-07-30 0:00 ` David Weller
1996-07-30 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-08-08 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-08-09 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-13 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-08-15 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-08-13 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-08-15 0:00 ` John McCabe
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