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From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard A. O'Keefe)
Subject: Re: C is 'better' than Ada because...
Date: 1996/07/30
Date: 1996-07-30T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4tkfqk$duc@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 01bb7dd3$88e808a0$96ee6fcf@timhome2


"Tim Behrendsen" <tim@airshields.com> writes:
>You say that it is the language of choice when software failure is
>liable to cause loss of life or a very large lawsuit.  These
>are very worthy attributes.  Given that this is the case, why
>isn't it being used more universally for non-mission critical
>software?

Speaking as someone who has used C for a long time, and is very happy
with Ada (despite feeling that a few aspects, which are already far
better than C, could have been better still), I would say that Ada is
a very usable language for all sorts of things.  It was very easy to
"get my feet wet" with Ada/Ed.  With GNAT (as cheap as gcc...) I am
very happy indeed.

What I *don't* understand is why people are puzzled by the fact that it
is hard to dislodge the first occupant of a niche.  (Not impossible, but
hard.)  Mammals didn't replace dinosaurs until after something else wiped
them out.  The only thing that could ever dislodge me from using MacWrite
on a Macintosh to the detestable Microsoft Word was the fact that the old
copy of MacWrite wouldn't run reliably on the latest system software and
the department wasn't about to buy a new copy for just one user.  Word
may have all sorts of extra features, but I already _knew_ MacWrite, had
a lot of documents in MacWrite format that I didn't want to convert, and
didn't see enough advantage in switching to justify learning a new word
processor _however_ good it might be.  (In fact, I'm not switching to
Weird, I'm switching to LaTeX, which I've already used on CMS, VMS, UNIX,
and DOS ...)

Similarly, I drive a 1975 car.  It still works.  I can't *afford* to
replace it with a new model, even if a new model is better.

Let me offer another example.  Suppose there were a programming language
which is simple, far more expressive and powerful than C, as efficient
as C, with a clean GUI library that has been designed so that programs
will be the *same* on UNIX-X, Windows, and Mac, in which type errors and
storage allocation errors and unintentional file overwriting errors and
so on were impossible, yet remained expressive and comfortable.  And
suppose that the implementation were free.

Do you suppose it would take the world by storm?
Well, _I_ use it, but no, Clean (for that is its name), has _not_ taken
the world by storm, and I don't expect it will.

Conversely, the students I've supervised who've used Microsoft Access
for projects tend to be mildly to *extremely* unhappy with the language
side of it, but that doesn't hurt it in the market, does it?

-- 
Fifty years of programming language research, and we end up with C++ ???
Richard A. O'Keefe; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/~ok; RMIT Comp.Sci.




  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-07-30  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 272+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-06-19  0:00 C is 'better' than Ada because Alan Brain
1996-06-20  0:00 ` Ron Thompson
1996-06-22  0:00 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-06-22  0:00   ` David Morton
1996-06-22  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23  0:00       ` The Deviant
1996-06-23  0:00         ` Michael Feldman
1996-06-23  0:00         ` John Winters
1996-06-23  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-24  0:00         ` token%/etc/HOSTNAME
1996-06-23  0:00     ` John Winters
1996-06-23  0:00       ` David Morton
1996-06-23  0:00         ` John Winters
1996-06-23  0:00           ` David Morton
1996-06-23  0:00         ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-27  0:00           ` ) OH NO "...begs the question..." Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28  0:00             ` Bill Wendling
1996-06-30  0:00   ` C is 'better' than Ada because Nasser Abbasi
1996-06-23  0:00 ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-06-23  0:00   ` Fergus Henderson
1996-06-23  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28  0:00       ` Fergus Henderson
1996-06-29  0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-29  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-30  0:00   ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-01  0:00     ` Mike Roske
1996-07-01  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-02  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-03  0:00     ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-04  0:00       ` Ian Ward
1996-07-05  0:00         ` Peter Amey
1996-07-05  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-10  0:00             ` James A. Squire
1996-07-15  0:00               ` Oliver Kellogg
1996-07-16  0:00                 ` Oliver Kellogg
1996-07-18  0:00                   ` Fraser Wilson
1996-07-18  0:00                     ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-19  0:00                   ` Keith Thompson
1996-07-17  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11  0:00             ` James A. Squire
1996-07-16  0:00             ` Nasser Abbasi
1996-07-16  0:00               ` Mark A Biggar
1996-07-17  0:00             ` James A. Squire
1996-07-17  0:00             ` Laurent Guerby
1996-07-17  0:00               ` David Emery
1996-07-18  0:00             ` James A. Squire
1996-07-07  0:00           ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-08  0:00             ` C is 'better' than Ada ... NOT!! Hugh Dunne
1996-07-08  0:00               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-12  0:00                 ` C is 'better' than Ada because John F. Bode
1996-07-15  0:00                   ` Sandy McPherson
1996-07-18  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-19  0:00                       ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-19  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-20  0:00                       ` Michael Feldman
1996-07-21  0:00                         ` Alfonso Urdaneta
1996-07-21  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-22  0:00                             ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-22  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-26  0:00                               ` Richard Riehle
     [not found]                             ` <31f3c52e.238719470 <Pine.GSO.3.92.960726122347.25896E-100000@nunic.nu.edu>
1996-07-31  0:00                               ` Darrin Smith
1996-07-31  0:00                                 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-08-01  0:00                                 ` Jerry van Dijk
1996-08-06  0:00                                   ` Kirk Bradley
1996-08-09  0:00                                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-10  0:00                                     ` Craig Franck
1996-08-16  0:00                                       ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-18  0:00                                         ` Craig Franck
     [not found]                                       ` <Pine.GSO.3.92.960816102000. <4v5pis$4h1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-18  0:00                                         ` David Weller
1996-08-15  0:00                                     ` Mike Stark
1996-08-02  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                             ` <31f3c52e.238719470 <4uj42h$j06@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-11  0:00                               ` Doug & Rose Miller
1996-08-11  0:00                                 ` Craig Franck
1996-08-11  0:00                                   ` Doug & Rose Miller
1996-08-12  0:00                                     ` Craig Franck
1996-08-16  0:00                                       ` nasser
1996-08-11  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]                             ` <31f3c52e.238719470 <4v5pis$4h1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-18  0:00                               ` Doug & Rose Miller
1996-08-20  0:00                                 ` Craig Franck
1996-07-23  0:00                         ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-27  0:00                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-27  0:00                         ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-07-29  0:00                         ` Ian Ward
1996-07-30  0:00                         ` Bob Cousins
1996-07-30  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-09-05  0:00                             ` Bob Cousins
1996-08-13  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-14  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1996-08-28  0:00                           ` Van Snyder
1996-08-14  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-15  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1996-08-15  0:00                           ` Joe Gwinn
1996-08-16  0:00                             ` Don Nelson
1996-08-19  0:00                               ` Joe Gwinn
1996-08-19  0:00                                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-28  0:00                         ` Van Snyder
1996-08-30  0:00                           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-08-15  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-20  0:00                         ` nasser
1996-08-15  0:00                       ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-07-19  0:00                     ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-08-15  0:00                     ` David Weller
1996-08-15  0:00                       ` William  C Brennan
1996-07-08  0:00               ` C is 'better' than Ada ... NOT!! Frank Manning
1996-07-08  0:00             ` C is 'better' than Ada because Robert Dewar
1996-07-10  0:00               ` Peter Hermann
1996-07-15  0:00                 ` Tim McGuire
1996-07-16  0:00                   ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-16  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-18  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-07-19  0:00                       ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-19  0:00                         ` Richard O'Rourke
1996-07-22  0:00                           ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-22  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-23  0:00                               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-24  0:00                                 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-24  0:00                                   ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-25  0:00                                     ` Alan Brain
1996-07-25  0:00                                     ` Steve Howard
1996-07-27  0:00                                     ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-07-26  0:00                                   ` Mike Roske
1996-07-25  0:00                                 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-25  0:00                                   ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-26  0:00                                     ` Fergus Henderson
1996-07-26  0:00                                     ` kennedy1
1996-07-23  0:00                               ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-23  0:00                               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-24  0:00                                 ` JamesS1889
1996-07-24  0:00                                 ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-27  0:00                                   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-29  0:00                                     ` Ada is 'better' than C because John Herro
1996-07-30  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1996-07-30  0:00                                         ` Adam Beneschan
1996-07-31  0:00                                         ` Franz Kruse
1996-08-04  0:00                                       ` Richard Riehle
1996-08-05  0:00                                         ` Sandy McPherson
1996-08-06  0:00                                           ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-06  0:00                                             ` GAFFNEY.BRIAN
1996-08-07  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-08  0:00                                             ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-08-08  0:00                                               ` Frank Lipski
1996-08-09  0:00                                             ` Sandy McPherson
1996-08-15  0:00                                             ` Mike Stark
1996-08-07  0:00                                           ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-08-08  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-08  0:00                                             ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-29  0:00                                     ` C is 'better' than Ada because Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-30  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-31  0:00                                         ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-31  0:00                                           ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-01  0:00                                             ` Alan Brain
1996-08-02  0:00                                               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-05  0:00                                                 ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-08-15  0:00                                               ` Mike Roske
1996-08-15  0:00                                                 ` David Shochat
1996-08-16  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-16  0:00                                                 ` John Herro
1996-08-16  0:00                                                   ` John Herro
1996-08-16  0:00                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-05  0:00                                             ` Robb Nebbe
1996-08-02  0:00                                           ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-31  0:00                                         ` whiting_ms@corning.com (Matt Whiting)
1996-07-29  0:00                                     ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-07-30  0:00                                       ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30  0:00                                         ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-07-30  0:00                                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe [this message]
1996-07-30  0:00                                           ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30  0:00                                     ` Theodore E. Dennison
1996-08-08  0:00                                     ` Ada is 'better' than C because William Clodius
1996-08-09  0:00                                       ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-09  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-08-12  0:00                                       ` OBryan Anthony H
1996-08-12  0:00                                         ` Bob Kurtz
1996-08-12  0:00                                         ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-08-13  0:00                                         ` Tom Watson
1996-08-14  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-29  0:00                                   ` C is 'better' than Ada because system
1996-07-30  0:00                                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-24  0:00                                 ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-25  0:00                                 ` Alan Brain
1996-07-18  0:00                     ` Bob Gilbert
1996-07-19  0:00                       ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-10  0:00               ` John F. Bode
1996-07-11  0:00                 ` Mike Roske
     [not found]               ` <4rvr2j$2gb0@info4.rus.uni-s <nhn30yhw6t.fsf@paralysys>
1996-07-18  0:00                 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-18  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-26  0:00                 ` Richard Riehle
1996-07-08  0:00             ` Ian Ward
1996-07-18  0:00               ` Hamilton Link
1996-07-19  0:00                 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-10  0:00             ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-07-10  0:00               ` Peter Seebach
1996-07-18  0:00             ` Brian Rogoff
1996-07-19  0:00             ` James A. Squire
1996-07-29  0:00             ` William Clodius
1996-07-30  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-31  0:00                 ` Tim Behrendsen
     [not found]                   ` <9608020139.AA29105@pulsar.telesoft>
1996-08-02  0:00                     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-05  0:00                       ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-06  0:00                         ` is Ada 'better' than C? (Was: Re: C is 'better' than Ada because...) Antoine Leca
1996-08-06  0:00                           ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-30  0:00               ` C is 'better' than Ada because Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-07-30  0:00                 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01  0:00                   ` Byron B. Kauffman
1996-08-01  0:00                     ` Ian Ward
1996-07-31  0:00               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-30  0:00             ` William Clodius
1996-08-01  0:00               ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-07-30  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-08-01  0:00               ` David Wheeler
1996-08-01  0:00             ` Olivier Devuns @pulsar
1996-08-11  0:00             ` Ada 95 is a FREE language (was: C is 'better' than Ada because...) Laurent Guerby
1996-08-11  0:00             ` C is 'better' than Ada because Jon S Anthony
1996-08-12  0:00               ` Craig Franck
1996-08-12  0:00                 ` John Howard
1996-08-13  0:00                   ` Craig Franck
1996-08-13  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-08-14  0:00                       ` Craig Franck
1996-08-12  0:00                 ` James A. Squire
1996-08-12  0:00                   ` Craig Franck
1996-08-14  0:00                 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
1996-08-14  0:00                 ` Stephen M O'Shaughnessy
     [not found]                 ` <Pine.GS <gwinn-1908961215100001@smc19.ed.ray.com>
1996-08-19  0:00                   ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-13  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-13  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-14  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-08-19  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-20  0:00               ` Craig Franck
1996-08-20  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-21  0:00               ` Craig Franck
1996-08-27  0:00             ` Valentin Bonnard
1996-07-06  0:00         ` Walter B. Hollman Sr.
1996-07-05  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-08  0:00         ` Peter Hermann
1996-07-09  0:00           ` Dirk Dickmanns
1996-07-12  0:00       ` ntxbow
1996-07-15  0:00         ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-07-15  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-16  0:00           ` Ian Ward
1996-07-17  0:00             ` Dale Stanbrough
1996-07-23  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-29  0:00       ` William Clodius
1996-07-31  0:00       ` Darin Johnson
1996-08-01  0:00         ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-01  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-05  0:00       ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found] ` <874508446wnr@t-cubed.demon.co.uk>
1996-06-29  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-07-01  0:00 ` James A. Squire
1996-07-02  0:00 ` Darin Johnson
1996-07-03  0:00   ` If your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails (was Re: C is 'better' than Ada because...) Bruce Clement
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-07-30  0:00 C is 'better' than Ada because Spasmo
1996-07-31  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-08-01  0:00   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-02  0:00     ` Ralph Silverman
     [not found] ` <01bb7e29$61e3d260$87ee6fce@timpent.airshields.com>
1996-07-31  0:00   ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-07-31  0:00     ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01  0:00 Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-02  0:00 ` David Bonham
1996-08-02  0:00 ` Mark McKinney
     [not found] ` <9608061851.AA17508@camo.brc.shell.com>
1996-08-06  0:00   ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-01  0:00 William Clodius
1996-08-03  0:00 ` Tim Behrendsen
1996-08-05  0:00   ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-08-05  0:00 ` Stefan 'Stetson' Skoglund
1996-08-05  0:00 ` William Clodius
1996-08-04  0:00 @#$%!?!
     [not found] <Pine.GSO.>
     [not found] ` <4 <4vb399$kt8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
1996-08-20  0:00   ` Adam Beneschan
1996-08-20  0:00     ` Craig Franck
1996-08-21  0:00     ` Mike Roske
1996-08-21  0:00       ` William  C Brennan
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