Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?

[steidl@centuryinter.net]

In <dewar.837864318@schonberg>, dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) writes:
>Peter says
>
[Lots of stuff talking about the limitations of C header files snipped.]
>
>Languages are more than just a set of syntax and semantic rules, they also
>come with a "typical style" of writing code. This style is partly a matter
>of tradition, but is strongly influenced by the design of the syntax and
>semantics.
>
[Some style stuff snipped.]
>
>One clue of the importance of these typical style issues is the difficulty
>of writing effective automatic translation programs from one language to
>another. It is not too hard to write a translator that translates one
>computer language to another, but to write one that takes a program written
>in the typical style of language X and produces an idiomatic program written
>in the typical style of langauge Y is extremely difficult. 
>
>In fact I would venture to guess that at this stage translation of natural
>languages from one to another is more successful than translation of
>computer programming languages. That's because the entire strucure of
>a program can be altered as a result of the shift of styles.
>
>Note that this applies to a human too. Someone who knows French and 
>English really well can take a novel written in one language, and produce
>an acceptable idiomatic translation by translating sentence by sentence.

It sounds like you have some experience with translating computer
prorams, but no real experience translating novels.  Human language
translation presents many of the same problems as computer program
translation does - i.e. different sentences may talk about the same
thing or be in the same style, or even talk about each other, and
translating them from one language to another without consistency
will result in a lackluster outcome.  Both programs and novels involve
a certain style and content.  However, I think that human novels are
generally harder to translate than computer programs because a
computer program is self-contained (if you include the language and
libraries), whereas a novel draws on an entire culture.  Translating
the novel effectively often means having intimate knowledge of two
cultures and being able to make mappings (which are sometimes very
subtle) from one to the other.  Some really difficult problems
(difficult even for very intelligent humans) can arise when trying to
perform this task.  To see examples of such, you should read "Godel,
Escher, Bach:  The Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas Hofstadter.

BTW, everyone who likes to program should read this book, IMHO.

Of course, if you want to make computer program translation as hard as
translating novels, require the translater to translate the comments
from the context of the first languages' community to that of the
second would be a start.


-Jeff

steidl@centuryinter.net - http://www.dont.i.wish.com/
All opinions are my own, and are subject to change without notice.