From: ok@goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU (Richard A. O'Keefe)
Subject: Re: Hungarian notation
Date: 1996/05/28
Date: 1996-05-28T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4oefrh$nan@goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dewar.832852187@schonberg
>Richard O'Keefe said
>"Can anyone explain to me why Ada doesn't have
Alphard-style selectors
>(function().all isn't quite the same thing; selectors are usefully
>restricted)."
dewar@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) writes:
>If one took all the features that might be added to Ada and applied the
>following rule:
>"Any feature shall be put in, unless there is a sound technical argument
> that shows that the feature is undesirable"
Yes, yes, of course. Understood. Misses the point, of course.
What I am trying to ask is not "why haven't selectors been _added_",
but "why were they left out of the original design"?
Some of the major constructs in Ada are
- variables => selectors (not provided)
- expressions => functions
- statements => procedures
- blocks => packages
One of the design goals of Ada was referential transparency,
and selectors are one means to that end. The claim that you can
replace an array by a function, often trotted out to explain why
Ada arrays use () instead of Algol/Pascal/C [] (sometimes by me!)
isn't really true, because you can assign to
f(x)
only when f is an array.
Perhaps I phrase my question infelicitously, but I do feel that Deware
has given it the worst possible interpretation.
What I would like to know is
- here is a syntactically simple concept
- which is also simple to implement (I'm putting it in a compiler
for another language, which will probably never see the light of
day for other reasons entirely)
- which had prior art
- which would have made referential transparency something
more than a slogan
*
so was the omission of this construct accidental or deliberate (in fact,
I strongly suspect "accidental") and if deliberate, does anyone know
what the arguments for and against were.
With Ada 95, as with other revisions, "less is more" is a compelling
practical argument. No matter how desirable a feature may be (and I
could name several I would like) a feature whose inclusion postpones
the delivery of the standard and the provision of higher ranked
features should not be included. So what else is new?
>So Richard, the burden is on you to argue that this feature is vital, not
>on others to argue that it is not useful.
There is no such burden on me, because I wasn't _demanding_ the feature,
only asking why it was left out. I think my major question is whether
it was accidental or deliberate.
Please remember that I am a *friend* of Ada (I think anyone who has
seriously tried to use C to develop reliable programs *has* to become
a friend of Ada fairly rapidly) and I am unlikely to attack it, so if
you think I am attacking Ada or the people who developed it, you know
you are misunderstanding me.
--
Fifty years of programming language research, and we end up with C++ ???
Richard A. O'Keefe; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/~ok; RMIT Comp.Sci.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1996-05-28 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 227+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <4adem2$b5s@mercury.IntNet.net>
[not found] ` <4ahka7$o9m@inrou.erno.de>
1996-05-13 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Roger Merritt
1996-05-14 0:00 ` David Priest
1996-05-14 0:00 ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-15 0:00 ` Graham Perkins
1996-05-15 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Pete Becker
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Keith Whittingham
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Dave Mikesell
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Pete Becker
[not found] ` <4ndb2j$1p0q@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Mark Chu-Carroll
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1996-05-17 0:00 ` Scott
1996-05-23 0:00 ` G.O.Visser
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Scott
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-05-18 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Steve Branam
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-14 0:00 ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-05-15 0:00 ` Gerolf Wendland
1996-05-16 0:00 ` mAg
1996-05-17 0:00 ` Arne W Flones
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Norman L. Reitzel
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Andy Ho-Fan Chan
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Janus
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Commenting (was Re: Hungarian notation) Alan Bowler
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Warren Young
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-30 0:00 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-31 0:00 ` Will Rose
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Heinz Hemken
1996-06-02 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-02 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27 0:00 ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28 0:00 ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Comments was: " Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-30 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
[not found] ` <4odgjh$6o@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
1996-05-28 0:00 ` try to run this! - try_me.exe [3/4] Otmar Conradus
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Clark L. Coleman
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-06-15 0:00 ` Train
1996-06-18 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-06-18 0:00 ` David Zink
1996-06-19 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23 0:00 ` David Zink
1996-06-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-11 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12 0:00 ` steidl
1996-07-12 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-06-29 0:00 ` steidl
1996-06-29 0:00 ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-20 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hun Ian Ward
1996-06-05 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Peter Moylan
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Mike Fulton
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Steve Howard
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Shane Badham
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Steve Sobol
1996-06-14 0:00 ` Re-designing CS (long) (Was: Re: The Last Word on Comments) Warren Young
1996-06-21 0:00 ` Re-designing CS (long) Warren Young
1996-06-24 0:00 ` Brian J. Quandt
1996-06-06 0:00 ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-08 0:00 ` Bill Hay
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Derek Lee Beatty
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Kevin J. Weise
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-17 0:00 ` James McKim
1996-06-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Sam Hunting
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` David Hopkins
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Hungarian notation (an aside) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-06-10 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-06-11 0:00 ` I wish it was "The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)" Blair MacIntyre
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Robert Dewar
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-25 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-25 0:00 ` Hungarian notation: the thread of choice for consummate boors The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Ken Nicolson
[not found] ` <HFsHoD96w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jon Hornstein
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-06 0:00 ` James McKim
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-26 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-05-22 0:00 ` Slander (was: Hungarian notation) Graham Perkins
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Hungarian notation Peter Moylan
1996-06-10 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-18 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Laurent Guerby
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Please keep Hungarian notation thread OUT of comp.lang.modula3 Tim Mann
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Hungarian notation James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Paul J. Kossick
1996-05-25 0:00 ` Raoul De Kezel
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-05 0:00 ` jthorpe
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07 0:00 ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-06-10 0:00 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Chris Engebretson
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-06-12 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-06-13 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-22 0:00 ` Richard Green
1996-06-11 0:00 ` Will Rose
1996-06-07 0:00 ` Chris Kuan
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-16 0:00 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-21 0:00 ` mAg
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Mark A Biggar
1996-05-21 0:00 ` slary61
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-24 0:00 ` slary61
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jerry Kuch
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1996-05-26 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Warren Young
1996-06-03 0:00 ` Eva
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Paul D. DeRocco
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Ian Ward
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Norman L. Reitzel
1996-05-27 0:00 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Jay Martin
1996-05-29 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Michael Feldman
1996-05-29 0:00 ` AJ Musgrove
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Train
1996-05-23 0:00 ` jeffos2
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe [this message]
1996-05-21 0:00 ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-24 0:00 ` Oleg Kagan
1996-06-05 0:00 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Brian Rogoff
1996-05-28 0:00 ` Homonnai Misi
1996-05-20 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-20 0:00 ` Tom Wheeley
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23 0:00 ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23 0:00 ` Richard Kenner
1996-06-01 0:00 ` Jim Kingdon
1996-06-10 0:00 Bob Crispen
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-05-15 0:00 Bob Crispen
[not found] <30C40F77.53B5@swsbbs.com>
[not found] ` <30EF0415.6FE1@tus.ssi1.com>
[not found] ` <1996Jan7.045815.8676@ohstpy>
[not found] ` <4cpb00$nqk@news.xmission.com>
1996-01-08 0:00 ` Michael Feathers
1996-01-08 0:00 ` vancleef
1996-01-09 0:00 ` Todd Knarr
1996-01-09 0:00 ` Michael Feathers
[not found] ` <hawkfish-0801960904580001@blv-pm3-ip24.halcyon.com>
1996-01-09 0:00 ` Todd Knarr
[not found] ` <marnoldDJEvtJ.1Lx@netcom.com>
[not found] ` <4aleun$jlk@ns.RezoNet.NET>
[not found] ` <marnoldDJMDBG.CFz@netcom.com>
[not found] ` <4asnkr$7b0@solutions.solon.com>
[not found] ` <4ath75$e7i@barnacle.iol.ie>
[not found] ` <4b4kij$svt@news.microsoft.com>
[not found] ` <dewar.819489496@schonberg>
1996-01-08 0:00 ` Michael Feathers
[not found] ` <4bd <4cne0e$1020@seminole.gate.net>
1996-01-08 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-01-08 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
[not found] ` <4cd8fc$oud@news.manawatu.gen.nz>
1996-01-08 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
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