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From: jdege@winternet.com (Jeff Dege)
Subject: Re: Hungarian notation
Date: 1996/05/24
Date: 1996-05-24T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4o3437$6vd@blackice.winternet.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: dewar.832851446@schonberg


On 23 May 1996 07:40:11 -0400, Robert Dewar (dewar@cs.nyu.edu) wrote:

: In fact the anti-comment attitude comes from the trenches rather than from
: the ivory tower. The main argument seems to be that since no one can ever
: manage to maintain comments properly, it is better to have no comments, or
: at least to minimize comments. I strongly disagree, and feel that it is
: better still to keep the comments up to date. A bad comment is a bug, as
: serious as any other latent bug in the "real" code, and programmers have
: to start thinking that way.

    I see absolutely no gain from insisting on useless comments, and
most of the comments I see are useless.  The code is a complete specification
of what the program is doing, and duplicating any of that information is
pointless.

    What the code doesn't specify is _why_ the code is behaving in
a certain way.  _That_ is what needs to be commented.  But I've seen
code that was well more than half comments that left me with no
idea as to what the code was supposed to do, let alone why it was
written in a certain way.  But these are the questions that the
maintenance programmer is going to ask.

: Yes of course it is hard to keep comments up to date -- there are many
: hard things about programming, this is one of them.

    I find that comments about the purpose of code becomes obsolete much
more slowly than comments about what the code is doing.

: To me good comments are essential, the code can only tell you what it does
: and how at a level of abstraction matching the code. Good comments tell you:
: 
:    a) what the code is doing at a higher level of abstraction
:    b) why you did what you did
:    c) why you didn't do something else
: 
: obviously code cannot be self-documenting in these three aspects.

Exactly.

-- 
  Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another:
  "What!  You, too?  Thought I was the only one."
                                             -C.S. Lewis





  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-05-24  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 227+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4adem2$b5s@mercury.IntNet.net>
     [not found] ` <4ahka7$o9m@inrou.erno.de>
1996-05-13  0:00   ` Hungarian notation Roger Merritt
1996-05-14  0:00     ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-15  0:00       ` Graham Perkins
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-16  0:00           ` Pete Becker
1996-05-14  0:00     ` David Priest
1996-05-14  0:00     ` Keith Whittingham
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Gerolf Wendland
1996-05-16  0:00           ` mAg
1996-05-17  0:00             ` Arne W Flones
1996-05-21  0:00               ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Andy Ho-Fan Chan
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-28  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Janus
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-05-31  0:00                               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                                 ` Commenting (was Re: Hungarian notation) Alan Bowler
1996-05-31  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Hungarian notation Steve Willer
1996-06-03  0:00                                   ` Warren Young
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Warren Young
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-31  0:00                             ` Will Rose
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                                 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-01  0:00                             ` Heinz Hemken
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-27  0:00                       ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-27  0:00                         ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27  0:00                           ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Comments was: " Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                           ` <4odgjh$6o@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` try to run this! - try_me.exe [3/4] Otmar Conradus
1996-05-28  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                         ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Clark L. Coleman
1996-06-03  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-06-13  0:00                             ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Richard Riehle
1996-06-15  0:00                                 ` Train
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-06-18  0:00                                   ` David Zink
1996-06-19  0:00                                     ` Michael Furman
1996-06-20  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23  0:00                                         ` David Zink
1996-06-23  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28  0:00                                         ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11  0:00                                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                               ` steidl
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` steidl
1996-06-20  0:00                                   ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hun Ian Ward
1996-06-05  0:00                           ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Peter Moylan
1996-06-05  0:00                             ` Mike Fulton
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Shane Badham
1996-06-13  0:00                                 ` Steve Sobol
1996-06-14  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) (Was: Re: The Last Word on Comments) Warren Young
1996-06-21  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) Warren Young
1996-06-24  0:00                                     ` Brian J. Quandt
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Steve Howard
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-06  0:00                               ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-08  0:00                             ` Bill Hay
1996-06-11  0:00                               ` Derek Lee Beatty
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                             ` Kevin J. Weise
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-12  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-17  0:00                               ` James McKim
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                         ` David Hopkins
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation (an aside) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                           ` Steve Willer
1996-06-10  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-06-12  0:00                               ` Warren Young
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Sam Hunting
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` I wish it was "The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)" Blair MacIntyre
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Hungarian notation Robert Dewar
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Steve Willer
1996-05-28  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-29  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-25  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-25  0:00                           ` Hungarian notation: the thread of choice for consummate boors The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-27  0:00                             ` Ken Nicolson
     [not found]                             ` <HFsHoD96w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` Jon Hornstein
1996-06-05  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` James McKim
1996-06-07  0:00                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Jeff Dege [this message]
1996-05-26  0:00                       ` Warren Young
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Slander (was: Hungarian notation) Graham Perkins
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-23  0:00                   ` Hungarian notation Peter Moylan
1996-06-10  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-18  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Laurent Guerby
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Please keep Hungarian notation thread OUT of comp.lang.modula3 Tim Mann
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Hungarian notation Robert I. Eachus
1996-05-23  0:00             ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Paul J. Kossick
1996-05-25  0:00                 ` Raoul De Kezel
1996-06-05  0:00             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-05  0:00               ` jthorpe
1996-06-06  0:00               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                   ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-06-10  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-06-11  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Chris Engebretson
1996-06-12  0:00                       ` Bob Rodgers
1996-06-12  0:00                         ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-06-22  0:00                       ` Richard Green
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Will Rose
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dave Mikesell
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-14  0:00         ` Pete Becker
     [not found]           ` <4ndb2j$1p0q@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Scott
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-05-18  0:00                 ` Warren Young
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Steve Branam
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Mark Chu-Carroll
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1996-05-17  0:00                 ` Scott
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` G.O.Visser
1996-05-16  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-16  0:00       ` Dave Toland
1996-05-21  0:00       ` mAg
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Mark A Biggar
1996-05-21  0:00           ` slary61
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00           ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00               ` slary61
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1996-05-26  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-27  0:00                     ` Warren Young
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Eva
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Paul D. DeRocco
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jerry Kuch
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Ian Ward
1996-05-27  0:00                 ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-27  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1996-05-29  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-01  0:00                     ` Michael Feldman
1996-05-29  0:00                 ` AJ Musgrove
1996-06-05  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-24  0:00               ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Train
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` jeffos2
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24  0:00         ` Oleg Kagan
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23  0:00     ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Brian Rogoff
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Homonnai Misi
1996-05-20  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-20  0:00     ` Tom Wheeley
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1996-06-01  0:00   ` Jim Kingdon
1996-06-10  0:00 Bob Crispen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-05-15  0:00 Bob Crispen
     [not found] <30C40F77.53B5@swsbbs.com>
     [not found] ` <marnoldDJEvtJ.1Lx@netcom.com>
     [not found]   ` <4aleun$jlk@ns.RezoNet.NET>
     [not found]     ` <marnoldDJMDBG.CFz@netcom.com>
     [not found]       ` <4asnkr$7b0@solutions.solon.com>
     [not found]         ` <4ath75$e7i@barnacle.iol.ie>
     [not found]           ` <4b4kij$svt@news.microsoft.com>
     [not found]             ` <dewar.819489496@schonberg>
1996-01-08  0:00               ` Michael Feathers
     [not found]               ` <4bd <4cne0e$1020@seminole.gate.net>
1996-01-08  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-01-08  0:00                 ` Adam Beneschan
     [not found] ` <30EF0415.6FE1@tus.ssi1.com>
     [not found]   ` <1996Jan7.045815.8676@ohstpy>
     [not found]     ` <4cpb00$nqk@news.xmission.com>
1996-01-08  0:00       ` Michael Feathers
1996-01-08  0:00         ` vancleef
1996-01-09  0:00         `  Todd Knarr 
1996-01-09  0:00           ` Michael Feathers
     [not found]       ` <hawkfish-0801960904580001@blv-pm3-ip24.halcyon.com>
1996-01-09  0:00         `  Todd Knarr 
     [not found] ` <4cd8fc$oud@news.manawatu.gen.nz>
1996-01-08  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
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