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From: nreitzel@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu (Norman L. Reitzel   )
Subject: Re: Hungarian notation
Date: 1996/05/21
Date: 1996-05-21T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4nr50r$jo2@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 319D2278.3F9A@netonecom.net


In article <319D2278.3F9A@netonecom.net> Arne W Flones <flonesaw@netonecom.net> writes:
>mAg wrote:
>> 
>> Hungarian Notation is an excellent concept, but I am sure that it will be
>> appreciated only by the programmers who have to work with serious code and
>> maintain it for years. [snip]
>
>B.S!!  It is a b-a-a-a-a-a-d idea.  It is an idiotic coding standard.  In "Programming Pearls," 
>Jon Bentley tells us to debug the code, not the comments.  With Microsoft's idea, we now must 
>remember to debug the code, not the Hungarian Notation.  Hungarian notation is a horrible idea.  
>These kinds of standards are an attempt to make code readable when there are multiple 
>programmers.  Unfortunately, they never work.
>
>Case in point:  The first time somebody wants to change the type of an identifier and doesn't 
>want to grep through all the source code to find all uses of the variable, Hungarian Notation 
>stops working.  As is ALWAYS the case, this will happen, especially in a large project.
>
What's worse, Arne, somebody will change the type, say from szShortSTring 
to pszReallyLongString, find that it's referenced a zillion times, and 
"fix" it by changing the name BACK, and then changing some (but not all) 
of the context of the reference.  If we're lucky, the stuff left out is 
in a really well used chunk of code and breaks things immediately.  If 
not, we've turned a good piece of software into a crash waiting to happen.

Worse worse, the "p" thing.  I -HATE- (stronger word?) "p" variables.  I 
want to see every last dereference, not have them take place by default.  
I attribute about half of the reason Pascal programmers don't much use 
pointers to the fool notion that a "pointer to something" is not an 
abstract object in it's own right, and merely represents an alternate 
name for the original object.  I cannot conceive of a more error-prone 
concept than an "alternate name".

As for serious code, I've ported million line projects for a telephone 
company, and managed projects that produced twice that.  The key to 
maintainability is defensive programming, and ADEQUATE BLOCK COMMENTS.  
Any chunk of code that does not contain info about what it does and how 
it does it is an error waiting to happen.  The rude concept of 
"self-documenting" code belongs in an ivory tower with those who teach, 
not in the trenches with those of us who DO.



-- 
   Norman L. Reitzel, Jr.       |    "When you live beside the graveyard,
   nreitzel@lonestar.utsa.edu   |     you can't cry for every funeral."
   Blue Water Ventures, dba.    |                     Russian Proverb




  reply	other threads:[~1996-05-21  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 227+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4adem2$b5s@mercury.IntNet.net>
     [not found] ` <4ahka7$o9m@inrou.erno.de>
1996-05-13  0:00   ` Hungarian notation Roger Merritt
1996-05-14  0:00     ` Keith Whittingham
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dave Mikesell
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-14  0:00         ` Pete Becker
     [not found]           ` <4ndb2j$1p0q@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Mark Chu-Carroll
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1996-05-17  0:00                 ` Scott
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` G.O.Visser
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Scott
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-05-18  0:00                 ` Warren Young
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Steve Branam
1996-05-16  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Gerolf Wendland
1996-05-16  0:00           ` mAg
1996-05-17  0:00             ` Arne W Flones
1996-05-21  0:00               ` Norman L. Reitzel    [this message]
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Slander (was: Hungarian notation) Graham Perkins
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Hungarian notation Matt Kennel
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00                   ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Andy Ho-Fan Chan
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-28  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Janus
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-05-31  0:00                               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                                 ` Commenting (was Re: Hungarian notation) Alan Bowler
1996-05-31  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Hungarian notation Steve Willer
1996-06-03  0:00                                   ` Warren Young
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Warren Young
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-31  0:00                             ` Will Rose
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                                 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-01  0:00                             ` Heinz Hemken
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27  0:00                       ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-27  0:00                         ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27  0:00                           ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Comments was: " Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                           ` <4odgjh$6o@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` try to run this! - try_me.exe [3/4] Otmar Conradus
1996-05-28  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                         ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Clark L. Coleman
1996-06-03  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-06-13  0:00                             ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Richard Riehle
1996-06-15  0:00                                 ` Train
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-06-18  0:00                                   ` David Zink
1996-06-19  0:00                                     ` Michael Furman
1996-06-20  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23  0:00                                         ` David Zink
1996-06-23  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28  0:00                                         ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11  0:00                                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                               ` steidl
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` steidl
1996-06-20  0:00                                   ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hun Ian Ward
1996-06-05  0:00                           ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Peter Moylan
1996-06-05  0:00                             ` Mike Fulton
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Shane Badham
1996-06-13  0:00                                 ` Steve Sobol
1996-06-14  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) (Was: Re: The Last Word on Comments) Warren Young
1996-06-21  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) Warren Young
1996-06-24  0:00                                     ` Brian J. Quandt
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Steve Howard
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-06  0:00                               ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-08  0:00                             ` Bill Hay
1996-06-11  0:00                               ` Derek Lee Beatty
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                             ` Kevin J. Weise
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-12  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-17  0:00                               ` James McKim
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Sam Hunting
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                         ` David Hopkins
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation (an aside) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                           ` Steve Willer
1996-06-10  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-06-12  0:00                               ` Warren Young
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` I wish it was "The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)" Blair MacIntyre
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Hungarian notation Robert Dewar
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Steve Willer
1996-05-28  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-29  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-25  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-25  0:00                           ` Hungarian notation: the thread of choice for consummate boors The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-27  0:00                             ` Ken Nicolson
     [not found]                             ` <HFsHoD96w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` Jon Hornstein
1996-06-05  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` James McKim
1996-06-07  0:00                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-26  0:00                       ` Warren Young
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-06-10  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-18  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Laurent Guerby
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Please keep Hungarian notation thread OUT of comp.lang.modula3 Tim Mann
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Hungarian notation James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Paul J. Kossick
1996-05-25  0:00                 ` Raoul De Kezel
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-06-05  0:00             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-05  0:00               ` jthorpe
1996-06-06  0:00               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                   ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-06-10  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-06-11  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Chris Engebretson
1996-06-12  0:00                       ` Bob Rodgers
1996-06-12  0:00                         ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-22  0:00                       ` Richard Green
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Will Rose
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-16  0:00       ` Dave Toland
1996-05-21  0:00       ` mAg
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Mark A Biggar
1996-05-21  0:00           ` slary61
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00           ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Train
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` jeffos2
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00               ` Steve Willer
1996-05-24  0:00               ` slary61
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jerry Kuch
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1996-05-26  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-27  0:00                     ` Warren Young
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Eva
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Paul D. DeRocco
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Ian Ward
1996-05-27  0:00                 ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-27  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1996-05-29  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-01  0:00                     ` Michael Feldman
1996-05-29  0:00                 ` AJ Musgrove
1996-06-05  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-24  0:00         ` Oleg Kagan
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-14  0:00     ` David Priest
1996-05-14  0:00     ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-15  0:00       ` Graham Perkins
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-16  0:00           ` Pete Becker
1996-05-23  0:00     ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Homonnai Misi
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Brian Rogoff
1996-05-20  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-20  0:00     ` Tom Wheeley
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1996-06-01  0:00   ` Jim Kingdon
1996-06-10  0:00 Bob Crispen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-05-15  0:00 Bob Crispen
     [not found] <30C40F77.53B5@swsbbs.com>
     [not found] ` <marnoldDJEvtJ.1Lx@netcom.com>
     [not found]   ` <4aleun$jlk@ns.RezoNet.NET>
     [not found]     ` <marnoldDJMDBG.CFz@netcom.com>
     [not found]       ` <4asnkr$7b0@solutions.solon.com>
     [not found]         ` <4ath75$e7i@barnacle.iol.ie>
     [not found]           ` <4b4kij$svt@news.microsoft.com>
     [not found]             ` <dewar.819489496@schonberg>
1996-01-08  0:00               ` Michael Feathers
     [not found]               ` <4bd <4cne0e$1020@seminole.gate.net>
1996-01-08  0:00                 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-01-08  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
     [not found] ` <30EF0415.6FE1@tus.ssi1.com>
     [not found]   ` <1996Jan7.045815.8676@ohstpy>
     [not found]     ` <4cpb00$nqk@news.xmission.com>
1996-01-08  0:00       ` Michael Feathers
1996-01-08  0:00         ` vancleef
1996-01-09  0:00         `  Todd Knarr 
1996-01-09  0:00           ` Michael Feathers
     [not found]       ` <hawkfish-0801960904580001@blv-pm3-ip24.halcyon.com>
1996-01-09  0:00         `  Todd Knarr 
     [not found] ` <4cd8fc$oud@news.manawatu.gen.nz>
1996-01-08  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
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