Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

[michael]

Hi,

we are currently considering to use GNAT on WindowsNT. One question
that arises in this context is how compatible GNAT is with other
compilers. I have almost no experience with the Microsoft world because
I am a Unix guy. On a Unix machine there is normally only one standard
object format and only one linker and so it has never been a problem
for me to mix different languages. But in the Microsoft world this
seems to be different. Could anybody please shed some light on this.

Michael

PS: If possible please answer via e-mail too because I won't be able
    to read the news for the next few days.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Dipl.-Ing. Michael Paus   (Member: Team Ada)
--University of Stuttgart, Inst. of Flight Mechanics and Flight Control
--Forststrasse 86, 70176 Stuttgart, Germany
--Phone: (+49) 711-121-1434  FAX: (+49) 711-634856
--Email: Michael.Paus@ifr.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de (NeXT-Mail welcome)

Re: Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

[Bob Crispen]

Jonas Nygren <ehsjony@EHS.ERICSSON.SE> sez:

>> we are currently considering to use GNAT on WindowsNT. One question
>> that arises in this context is how compatible GNAT is with other
>> compilers. I have almost no experience with the Microsoft world because
>> I am a Unix guy. On a Unix machine there is normally only one standard
>> object format and only one linker and so it has never been a problem
>> for me to mix different languages. But in the Microsoft world this
>> seems to be different. Could anybody please shed some light on this.

[snip]

>In brief I would recommend you to run on Unix, e.g. Linux. NT is OK if
>you are running, Word, Excel, Netscape, a s o. But if you want a
>programming environment similar to Unix - it is not possible with NT.
>I have installed GNU Win32 , see <http://www.cygnus.com/misc/gnu-win32/>,
>but it is to little, IMO. If I were to develop Ada code professionally
>on NT then I'd go for some completely integrated environment, I have seen
>Alsys' Active Ada mentioned on the net but know nothing of the product.

I use gnat alongside the gnu tools provided with Cygnus GnuWin32 on my
Win95 machine at home.  The gnu tools include bash, ls, grep, find, sort,
tail, tr, sed, and all your old favorites.  The only one that's really
broken very badly is less, so I find myself sending stdout to files
more than I do at work.

As yet another Unix guy, I find the gnu tools very easy to work with
and reasonably mature. In fact, I don't even have c:\Windows\Command
in my $PATH.  My only minor quibble is with gnat's integration with
gcc.  You have to have two copies of gcc lying around if you want to
do C++ (of course, who on this newsgroup would want to do THAT? ;-).

I also use Thomson's ActivAda, and its GUI builder alone makes it well
worth the money (IMHO, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by
law, etc. etc., etc.).  I'm looking forward to their ObjectAda.  I
believe ActivAda gives you an error message on Win95 something like
"Libraries must be the children of Win32s libraries" when you set up a
project, but I just click OK on the message box, ignore the message,
and it works fine.  It may very well be my fault that the message
is generated.

So far, I haven't noticed any problems with the 3.01a gnat.  It is
a little behind the versions for other machines, but I expect it will
catch up eventually.  At any rate, gnat beta 3.01a is *much* more
fully-featured than the first (or second, or third) Ada 83 compiler
I used.

I also use vim (a vi editor) and Intermetrics' AppletMagic.  Both work
just fine in Windows 95 (and I presume NT).  Ditto for JDK.  I don't
believe I have c:\Windows\Command in the $PATH for any of them; I run
them all out of bash.

I don't say not to use Linux or FreeBSD or whatever, but I think
you need to make that decision based on something other than the
maturity of the Ada tools or the Unix-like tools.  For me, they're
plenty mature enough.

As for object formats, which is what you asked about originally, I've
never tried to link in C++ objects with Ada objects, but I don't know
of a reason why this wouldn't work.  I've linked C and Ada objects
just fine (both were produced by gnat's gcc).  I believe there are
fewer object file formats than you fear.

Executables, though, have some variations.  When I launch a Windows
executable that I produced with Cygnus gcc or Gnat gcc by double-clicking,
it sometimes spawns a DOS window as well as the regular Windows window.
I put this down to my own ignorance of the fine points of Windows, and
probably my inability to read a manual.


Bob Crispen
revbob@eight-ball.hv.boeing.com
Speaking for myself, not my company

Re: Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

[Jonas Nygren]

michael@ifr.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> we are currently considering to use GNAT on WindowsNT. One question
> that arises in this context is how compatible GNAT is with other
> compilers. I have almost no experience with the Microsoft world because
> I am a Unix guy. On a Unix machine there is normally only one standard
> object format and only one linker and so it has never been a problem
> for me to mix different languages. But in the Microsoft world this
> seems to be different. Could anybody please shed some light on this.

Michael,

I, too, am a Unix guy. I run a PC with NT and I run Gnat both on PC/NT
and on Unix.

In brief I would recommend you to run on Unix, e.g. Linux. NT is OK if
you are running, Word, Excel, Netscape, a s o. But if you want a
programming environment similar to Unix - it is not possible with NT.
I have installed GNU Win32 , see <http://www.cygnus.com/misc/gnu-win32/>,
but it is to little, IMO. If I were to develop Ada code professionally 
on NT then I'd go for some completely integrated environment, I have seen
Alsys' Active Ada mentioned on the net but know nothing of the product.

Also, it is a bit unclear to what level Gnat NT is supported. It is still
3.01 and 3.03 was promised a month+ ago but nothing has come out. The final 
test will be 3.05 on NT. Trouble reporting seems more responsive on Unix
versus NT. If I suspect a bug on NT I always run it on Unix before
submitting it to report@gnat.com, so that it is submitted as a Unix bug.

I hope my very personal views were of some interest to you and other readers.

/jonas

> 
> Michael
> 
> PS: If possible please answer via e-mail too because I won't be able
>     to read the news for the next few days.
> 
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --Dipl.-Ing. Michael Paus   (Member: Team Ada)
> --University of Stuttgart, Inst. of Flight Mechanics and Flight Control
> --Forststrasse 86, 70176 Stuttgart, Germany
> --Phone: (+49) 711-121-1434  FAX: (+49) 711-634856
> --Email: Michael.Paus@ifr.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de (NeXT-Mail welcome)

Re: Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

[Tom Griest]

michael@ifr.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de writes:

>we are currently considering to use GNAT on WindowsNT. One question
>that arises in this context is how compatible GNAT is with other
>compilers. I have almost no experience with the Microsoft world because
>I am a Unix guy. On a Unix machine there is normally only one standard
>object format and only one linker and so it has never been a problem
>for me to mix different languages. But in the Microsoft world this
>seems to be different. Could anybody please shed some light on this.

On Windows 32-bit platforms (Win95 and WinNT) the standard object
file format is COFF, however, COFF does allow for "optional headers"
and corresponding sections which can contain implementation specific 
information.  The Microsoft VC++ compilers use the .debug section 
with an IMAGE_DEBUG_TYPE set to either COFF or CODEVIEW.
For the most part there is no problem linking MS object files with
GNAT generated object files.  I've never seen a problem when using
the MS linker, but 'ld' can still have some problems with some of
the oddball MS files (certain types of C++ stuff I believe).  

-Tom

Re: Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

[Fergus Henderson]

Bob Crispen <revbob@EIGHT-BALL.HV.BOEING.COM> writes:

>As yet another Unix guy, I find the gnu tools very easy to work with
>and reasonably mature. In fact, I don't even have c:\Windows\Command
>in my $PATH.

The GNU tools in gnu-win32 are great, but I wouldn't call them mature.
There is a reason why all the releases of gnu-win32 so far have been
called "beta" releases, and that reason is that they are still quite
buggy.  For example, in the latest release, beta-14, some very basic
things such as `gcc hello.c' don't work on Windows 95 (or at least they
don't work for me).

--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au>   |  "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh>   |  of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3         |     -- the last words of T. S. Garp.

Re: Code compatibility of GNAT on Win/NT with other compilers

[Ken Cowan]

In article <319B6081.59DC@ehs.ericsson.se>,
   Jonas Nygren <ehsjony@ehs.ericsson.se> wrote:
> If I were to develop Ada code professionally 
>on NT then I'd go for some completely integrated environment, I have seen
>Alsys' Active Ada mentioned on the net but know nothing of the product.
..
>
>/jonas
>

Check the demo of our Windows ActivAda product on our homepage,
www.thomsoft.com.  It shows the IDE and the GUI builder.

  KC  

---------------------------------------------------------
Ken Cowan                       Thomson Software Products
cowan@east.thomsoft.com         200 Wheeler Rd.
phone: (617) 221-7323           Burlington, MA 01803
fax: (617) 220-6882