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From: Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauhaus@futureapps.de>
Subject: Re: Preventing type extensions
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:19:10 +0200
Date: 2010-09-13T11:19:10+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4c8dec8e$0$6990$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <134q4k2ly2pf4$.17nlv1q6q5ivo.dlg@40tude.net>

On 13.09.10 09:13, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 07:32:02 +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
> 
>> * Maciej Sobczak:
>>
>>> If it implements an abstract interface, then why extending it further
>>> is a problem? [...]
>> the
>> information which subprograms call each other under what circumstances
>> leaks to the outside of the package.
>> [...]
> No, the actual problem here is re-dispatch. Just do not do that, it is
> always bad.
> 
> Final classes make no sense. I am glad that at least this was not borrowed
> by Ada ... yet.

People may have reasons that render extensibility of types undesirable,
even when internally the software will profit from re-dispatch. "Internally"
can refer to both the software and to the organization: in a controlled
environment (of people), dispatching at run time adds flexibility.

Reasons against extensibility just point to a very real phenomenon,
that of (mis)trust among the members of a group relevant to the program/
library: these include programmers, managers, sales personnel, users...
Will they trust the currently known programmers, trust future colleagues,
to use the extensible O-O library only in ways, say, covered by the
legal contract from year X?  (Hint: viral callbacks.)

If a system must reflect trust and mistrust, shouldn't the
mechanics of a language support both?  And hence---given the split
between Ada's non-tagged and tagged types---shouldn't the langauge
support "final" types?
Otherwise, which language lawyer can say it should or shouldn't,
when the issues are not technical, but social?


Georg



  reply	other threads:[~2010-09-13  9:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-09-12 10:18 Preventing type extensions Florian Weimer
2010-09-12 11:59 ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-12 12:53   ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-12 21:23     ` Maciej Sobczak
2010-09-13  5:32       ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-13  7:13         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13  9:19           ` Georg Bauhaus [this message]
2010-09-13  9:42             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 10:23               ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-13 12:55                 ` Cyrille
2010-09-13 13:55                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 21:13                   ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-21 13:57                     ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 14:19                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 14:44                         ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 16:25                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 17:11                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-21 18:11                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-23 20:00                                 ` Simon Wright
2010-09-23 20:49                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-24  9:10                                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-24 10:24                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-24 13:30                                 ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-24 16:27                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-24 17:47                                     ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-24 19:42                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 14:32                       ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-21 15:02                         ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 15:26                           ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-21 16:18                             ` Cyrille
2010-09-22  8:01                               ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-22 17:28                                 ` Cyrille
2010-09-22 19:30                                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-22 19:51                                     ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 20:14                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 20:25                                         ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 20:38                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 21:25                                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2010-09-22 21:20                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-22 20:16                                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-22 20:34                                         ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 22:45                                           ` Britt Snodgrass
2010-09-23  8:02                                           ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-23 16:51                                     ` Pascal Obry
2010-09-23 18:37                                       ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-23 18:55                                         ` Pascal Obry
2010-09-23 20:28                                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-24  9:20                                         ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-24 14:49                                           ` Simon Wright
2010-09-24 15:09                                             ` Ludovic Brenta
2010-09-24 16:21                                           ` Robert A Duff
2010-09-25  7:10                                         ` Pascal Obry
2010-09-25 12:03                                           ` Brian Drummond
2010-09-24  8:16                                   ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-24  8:39                                     ` Cyrille
2010-09-24  9:27                                       ` Cyrille
2010-09-29 16:47                                         ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-30 10:08                                           ` Cyrille
2010-10-05 17:02                                             ` J-P. Rosen
2010-10-08  7:50                                               ` Cyrille
2010-10-08 13:58                                               ` Cyrille
2010-10-08 20:12                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-10-11  7:57                                                   ` Cyrille
2010-10-11  8:24                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-10-12  5:23                                                   ` Shark8
2010-10-13  9:06                                                 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-10-13 17:37                                                   ` Cyrille
2010-10-13 18:50                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-21 14:50                       ` (see below)
2010-09-21 17:37                         ` Cyrille
2010-09-21 19:07                           ` (see below)
2010-09-13 13:05                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 20:21                   ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-13 21:00                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 21:10                 ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-14 12:16                   ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-14 16:46                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 18:08                       ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-14 18:32                         ` Niklas Holsti
2010-09-15  8:18                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 17:04                     ` J-P. Rosen
2010-09-13 15:12               ` Securing type extensions (was: Preventing type extensions) Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-13 15:29                 ` Securing type extensions Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-13 17:23                 ` Simon Wright
2010-09-13 20:22                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-13 20:41                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 10:02                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-14 12:22                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-14 21:18                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-15  8:15                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-15 20:47                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-16  7:47                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-16 11:52                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-16 12:45                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-16 20:53                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-16 21:37                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-17  8:45                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-17  9:39                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-10-05  5:59                     ` Randy Brukardt
2010-09-13 18:32           ` Preventing " Florian Weimer
2010-09-13 20:30             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 19:41               ` Florian Weimer
2010-09-22 20:34                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2010-09-22 21:10                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2010-09-17  0:16           ` Shark8
2010-09-17  7:04             ` AdaMagica
2010-09-17 21:05               ` Shark8
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