* Web browser in Ada @ 2010-04-23 8:03 Gautier write-only 2010-04-23 13:56 ` Maciej Sobczak 2010-04-24 9:51 ` leonid 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-23 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw) There are discussions from time to time, since very long, about writing a Web browser in Ada. The main idea would have a safe browser. Actually today's issues about security in Web browsers remarkably seem of the same kind as ten years ago, just a bit more frequent and acute. Did someone give a try ? I guess the following libraries would be considered: - AWS, for the HTTP requests - GtKAda, for a portable GUI - the least possible bindings and the most possible Ada code for decoding images and other contents _________________________________________________________ Gautier's Ada programming -- http://sf.net/users/gdemont/ NB: For a direct answer, e-mail address on the following web site: http://www.fechtenafz.ethz.ch/wm_email.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-23 8:03 Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-23 13:56 ` Maciej Sobczak 2010-04-23 14:37 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-23 21:33 ` Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only 2010-04-24 9:51 ` leonid 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Maciej Sobczak @ 2010-04-23 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw) On 23 Kwi, 10:03, Gautier write-only <gautier_niou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > The main idea would have a safe browser. From what I understand, the vulnerabilities in todays browsers are related to plugins or dependent libraries, which are all natively executed. Writing a web browser in Ada that would not have those plugins (you are not going to reimplement them, I believe) would be - as far as security is concerned - equivalent to a reasonable existing browser with all plugins disabled. Am I missing something? Could you refer to an existing browser vulnerability that is related to the core browser engine and that would be avoided by choosing another language? (I'm genuinely interested) -- Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com YAMI4 - Messaging Solution for Distributed Systems http://www.inspirel.com/yami4 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-23 13:56 ` Maciej Sobczak @ 2010-04-23 14:37 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 11:41 ` Martin Krischik 2010-04-23 21:33 ` Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-23 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw) On 23.04.10 15:56, Maciej Sobczak wrote: > > Could you refer to an existing browser vulnerability that is related > to the core browser engine and that would be avoided by choosing > another language? > (I'm genuinely interested) Does CSS count? Or image rendering components? "buffer overflow" + {ie6, mozilla, ...} produce a number of search results. Then there is the presence of DEP in recent MS systems brough to your desktop with IE7 ... Buffer overflow continues to rank high, e.g. in the 2010 SANS Top 25: http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/120.html Integer overflow or wraparound and improper array indexing rank somewhat lower, but are present, too. BTW, why do we still subscribe to the notion "integer overflow" when the one thing that any sequence of what is commonly known as integers cannot possibly do is to overflow? Maybe the wording is at the heart of the problem. I think it is adequate and pedagogical to call it "int overflow". ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-23 14:37 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 11:41 ` Martin Krischik 2010-04-27 12:22 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Martin Krischik @ 2010-04-27 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Am 23.04.2010, 16:37 Uhr, schrieb Georg Bauhaus <rm.dash-bauhaus@futureapps.de>: > On 23.04.10 15:56, Maciej Sobczak wrote: > BTW, why do we still subscribe to the notion "integer overflow" > when the one thing that any sequence of what is commonly known > as integers cannot possibly do is to overflow? Maybe the > wording is at the heart of the problem. Not at all. This is an integer overflow: int dayOfMonth = 32; Simplified example of course. Martin -- Martin Krischik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-27 11:41 ` Martin Krischik @ 2010-04-27 12:22 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 14:00 ` AdaMagica 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 12:22 UTC (permalink / raw) On 27.04.10 13:41, Martin Krischik wrote: > Am 23.04.2010, 16:37 Uhr, schrieb Georg Bauhaus > <rm.dash-bauhaus@futureapps.de>: > >> On 23.04.10 15:56, Maciej Sobczak wrote: > >> BTW, why do we still subscribe to the notion "integer overflow" >> when the one thing that any sequence of what is commonly known >> as integers cannot possibly do is to overflow? Maybe the >> wording is at the heart of the problem. > > Not at all. This is an integer overflow: > > int dayOfMonth = 32; I don't think that this is an integer overflow by the common definition of "integer overflow" (which relies on "int", not implications of the name "dayOfMonth" ---and also not on "integer"). No overflow there, just a terrible programming mistake. In Ada, other than predefined "Integer" and such, there are no named integer types. Good thing, as this lack suggests adding at least range constraints, if not new types. In C, many programmers seem to think there are integers and that their name is "int". (On a 5bit architecture one could even be mislead to believe that the above declaration would create overflow (disregarding the logical error), since 32 > 2^5 - 1. But I think that C's minimum requirement for an "int" is storing values between -(2^15 - 1) and +(2^15 - 1)--- whatever width the underlying hardware's words do actually have.) So the above would "flow over" the range constraint of a suitably defined Month subtype in Ada. (Forgetting about February problems for the moment, that can only to be solved in type systems such as Qi's.) > Simplified example of course. Uhm, the heart of the problem is that "int" is taken to mean, ..., well, ... an integer? Yes, the above is a logical error, one that could have been prevented mechanically by using a good base type system, one that does not include "the integers". Which is my point: that it is a misconception to think of "int" as an integer. If you think of "int" as what it is: "int", and if you are smart, then little can go wrong. This is easier to get right once you have a base type system that naturally suggest not to think in terms of an infinite set of arbitrary high school numbers, but of computer entities. Like Ada's. I like this characterization of C's int: "The int type was typically the most convenient native data type for integer math." (*) The "native" part is what seems lost in stereotypical C knowledge. (*) http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-ctypes3/index.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-27 12:22 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 14:00 ` AdaMagica 2010-04-27 15:30 ` Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: AdaMagica @ 2010-04-27 14:00 UTC (permalink / raw) But Standard.Integer is an integer ;-) Very_Big : constant := Integer'Last + Integer'Last; -- "+" of Integer Even_Bigger: constant := Long_Integer'Last + Long_Integer'Last; -- "+" of Long_Integer Illegal : constant := Long_Integer'Last + Integer'Last; -- "+" mixing ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) 2010-04-27 14:00 ` AdaMagica @ 2010-04-27 15:30 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 16:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) On 27.04.10 16:00, AdaMagica wrote: > But Standard.Integer is an integer ;-) > > Very_Big : constant := Integer'Last + Integer'Last; -- > "+" of Integer > Even_Bigger: constant := Long_Integer'Last + Long_Integer'Last; -- > "+" of Long_Integer > Illegal : constant := Long_Integer'Last + Integer'Last; -- > "+" mixing Are these really of type Standard.Integer? I think (after rummaging through the RM) they are not. These are named numbers, and their declaration has no effect. They are of type universal_integer (unconstrained?) which has no name. And they cannot overflow then. The builtin "+" can deliver the sum of any static constants within capacity constraints of the compiler. package Big is Z : constant := 2 ** 1_000_000_000; Y : constant := 2 ** 10_000; A : constant := 9 ** (9 ** 9); B : constant := Long_Long_Integer'Succ (2**63 - 1); Bigger : constant Boolean := B > Long_Long_Integer'Last; end Big; Compiling: big.ads (source file time stamp: 2010-04-27 14:53:49) 5. Z : constant := 2 ** 1_000_000_000; | >>> static value too large, capacity exceeded 7. A : constant := 9 ** (9 ** 9); | >>> static value too large, capacity exceeded Unavailable: for D'Size use ...; pragma Inspection_Point (...); Big.Bigger is True. My conclusions would be that: Standard.Integer is a constrained subtype. Its objects are not like (what is commonly known as) integers, a set that can be extended at will. They cannot overflow in Ada mode. There is no wrap-around. Named numbers of no-name type universal_integer cannot overflow, their value is determined by the compiler, they are not objects, and they can hit compiler capacity limits. So neither Standard.Integer nor universal_integer is an integer. Nor is C's int. Still assuming C's int is like integers, encouraged by how "int" and "integer" are used interchangeably in talks and writings, leads to to overflow (this is my hypothesis). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) 2010-04-27 15:30 ` Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 16:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2010-04-27 17:09 ` Georg Bauhaus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2010-04-27 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:30:44 +0200, Georg Bauhaus wrote: > My conclusions would be that: > > Standard.Integer is a constrained subtype. Its objects are > not like (what is commonly known as) integers, a set that can > be extended at will. The set of integers is not extensible "at will." You probably meant that for any integer there exists at least one [actually an infinitely countable set] of greater or lesser integers. Nevertheless the set of integers (Z) is fixed. Standard.Integer is not an integer, it is a type, used to model integers or other entities. It is not Z independently on how adequately it models the latter. > They cannot overflow in Ada mode. There is no wrap-around. > Named numbers of no-name type universal_integer > cannot overflow, their value is determined by the compiler, Their behavior, you mean. The value is determined by the expression and the language rules. > they are not objects, and they can hit compiler capacity limits. Whether they are [run-time] objects is up to compiler. The compiler in Ada has certain freedom to "objectize" and "deobjectize" things. > So neither Standard.Integer nor universal_integer is an integer. See above. They are not per definition. The question how adequately they can model Z, is answered as: neither does it 100%. The domain of either type is finite. Both domains include non-integer ideal elements called "exception propagation" or "compile error." Concerning the latter, for any legal Ada program there can exist a compiler capable to compile it without error [if you have enough material and time]. > Nor is C's int. Still assuming C's int is like integers, > encouraged by how "int" and "integer" are used interchangeably > in talks and writings, leads to to overflow (this is my > hypothesis). You need overflow in order to define the behavior of the operations closed only in Z. E.g. "+". -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) 2010-04-27 16:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2010-04-27 17:09 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 17:56 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 17:09 UTC (permalink / raw) On 27.04.10 18:13, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:30:44 +0200, Georg Bauhaus wrote: > >> My conclusions would be that: >> >> Standard.Integer is a constrained subtype. Its objects are >> not like (what is commonly known as) integers, a set that can >> be extended at will. > > The set of integers is not extensible "at will." You probably meant that > for any integer there exists at least one [actually an infinitely countable > set] of greater or lesser integers. Nevertheless the set of integers (Z) is > fixed. Thanks for adding clarity. It is much needed. > The value is determined by the expression and the > language rules. (OK, nitpicking, there is no value denoted by a named number if determination does not actually happen. Words mean nothing unless they are given meaning. ;-) ;-) >> they are not objects, and they can hit compiler capacity limits. > > Whether they are [run-time] objects is up to compiler. The compiler in Ada > has certain freedom to "objectize" and "deobjectize" things. Thanks, I didn't know this. > You need overflow in order to define the behavior of the operations closed > only in Z. E.g. "+". True if it is not possible to define "+" in terms of saturation or wrap-around, I think. Correct? However, programmers do not define "+" in their C programs. They use "+"! Then overflow occurs, and not to prove the soundness of the language definition, but as a mishap. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) 2010-04-27 17:09 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-27 17:56 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2010-04-27 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:09:43 +0200, Georg Bauhaus wrote: > On 27.04.10 18:13, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > >> The value is determined by the expression and the >> language rules. > > (OK, nitpicking, there is no value denoted by a named number > if determination does not actually happen. Words mean > nothing unless they are given meaning. ;-) ;-) Yes, but the meaning is given by the language rules, not by the running instance of the compiler. Therefore: X : constant := 2**(2**(2**(2**1_000_000_000))); is well-defined even if there likely will never exist a compiler-machine combination capable to swallow it. >> You need overflow in order to define the behavior of the operations closed >> only in Z. E.g. "+". > > True if it is not possible to define "+" in terms of saturation > or wrap-around, I think. Correct? "+" can be defined in any way. The question is the semantics of. If the semantics of "+" is to model Z, then it cannot return a value from Z which is mathematically wrong. The problem is not in a singular value. It is with the programs that will use this value in other computations. In the end it will break everything about Z. You won't be certain about any evaluated value. Ideals like exceptions, NaN etc, limit the damage. > However, programmers do not define "+" in their C programs. > They use "+"! > Then overflow occurs, and not to prove the soundness of the > language definition, but as a mishap. Yes. If the programmer is lucky then the behavior maps the implied semantics. This is what we call "safe choice." Unfortunately C's choices are often unsafe in the sense that the layman programmer's expectations are far not what C actually does. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-23 13:56 ` Maciej Sobczak 2010-04-23 14:37 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-23 21:33 ` Gautier write-only 2010-04-24 0:38 ` Peter C. Chapin 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-23 21:33 UTC (permalink / raw) > Could you refer to an existing browser vulnerability that is related > to the core browser engine and that would be avoided by choosing > another language? > (I'm genuinely interested) It is a very good question, that should be solved before jumping into such a time-consuming project :-). My impression is that a good part of vulnerabilities are indeed within plug-ins, another good part is between the browser and a plug-in (typically, browser X need to be patched but not the others nor the plug-in), and the third part, important as well, is about CSS, JavaScript, image storage or decoding, XML, HTML parsing and other core parts of browsers. I had a glimpse on: http://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/ and a randomly with http://www.google.com/search?q=browser+security+update Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can answer your question, or give percentages to the parts above... G. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-23 21:33 ` Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-24 0:38 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-25 5:38 ` Gautier write-only ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Peter C. Chapin @ 2010-04-24 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Gautier write-only wrote: > My impression is that a good part of vulnerabilities are indeed within > plug-ins, another good part is between the browser and a plug-in > (typically, browser X need to be patched but not the others nor the > plug-in), and the third part, important as well, is about CSS, > JavaScript, image storage or decoding, XML, HTML parsing and other > core parts of browsers. I had actually thought that building a web browser in Ada would be a nice project (if only I had more time!). I'm not sure how much of a difference in security it would make... probably some. Any browser that could be realistically used would need to support JavaScript. While an Ada JavaScript implementation might (or might not) be more secure than a C implementation, it seems to me that any vulnerability related to the JavaScript language itself would still be a risk. In any case, the real benefit of such a project would be more in the development of associated libraries and supporting code (imagine processing, HTML parsing and rendering, CSS handling, etc, etc)... and in the visibility a successful project would give to Ada. I suspect Ada was first standardized before many current web developers were born; it might be fun to see what sort of reception an Ada web browser project would get in that community. Anyway a good first step might be the implementation of an HTML 5 parser in Ada. Rather than playing catch-up that would put an Ada web browser project right in the thick of the bleeding edge of the web world. Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-24 0:38 ` Peter C. Chapin @ 2010-04-25 5:38 ` Gautier write-only 2010-04-25 16:24 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-25 10:41 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-26 15:37 ` Warren 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-25 5:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Peter C. Chapin: > I had actually thought that building a web browser in Ada would be a nice > project (if only I had more time!). I'm not sure how much of a difference in > security it would make... probably some. > Any browser that could be realistically used would need to support JavaScript. > While an Ada JavaScript implementation might (or might not) be more secure > than a C implementation, it seems to me that any vulnerability related to the > JavaScript language itself would still be a risk. Maybe it is a bit naive, but I have the impression that JavaScript's vulnerability can be limited to the interaction with the surronding operating system: file I/O and code execution (this includes starting a plug-in). > In any case, the real benefit of such a project would be more in the > development of associated libraries and supporting code (imagine processing, > HTML parsing and rendering, CSS handling, etc, etc)... Sure. For images, I could provide some bits (some of them existing), even in a generic way (reusable for other projects, GUIs etc.). > and in the visibility > a successful project would give to Ada. I suspect Ada was first standardized > before many current web developers were born; it might be fun to see what > sort of reception an Ada web browser project would get in that community. Just remind them that the current browsers are made in a language their grandparents were already using :-). > Anyway a good first step might be the implementation of an HTML 5 parser in > Ada. Rather than playing catch-up that would put an Ada web browser project > right in the thick of the bleeding edge of the web world. But probably when there will be something working you will have to catchup with HTML 8 :-) Just kidding. It is a very good idea, especially that the W3C specification gives also hints about the parsing. G. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-25 5:38 ` Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-25 16:24 ` Peter C. Chapin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Peter C. Chapin @ 2010-04-25 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Gautier write-only wrote: > Maybe it is a bit naive, but I have the impression that JavaScript's > vulnerability can be limited to the interaction with the surronding > operating system: file I/O and code execution (this includes starting > a plug-in). I don't know much about JavaScript at the moment, honestly. It sounds like you are saying that current insecurities in JavaScript are in its interface to the rest of the world. If so, a more secure implementation of the language itself might help (depend on what "more secure implementation" really means, exactly). > Just kidding. It is a very good idea, especially that the W3C > specification gives also hints about the parsing. Another potential benefit is that the W3C is, as I understand it, currently looking for implementation feedback on the proposed specification. So the time seems ripe to think about an HTML 5 implementation. Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-24 0:38 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-25 5:38 ` Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-25 10:41 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-25 16:29 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-26 15:37 ` Warren 2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-25 10:41 UTC (permalink / raw) On 4/24/10 2:38 AM, Peter C. Chapin wrote: > Any browser that could be realistically used would need to support JavaScript. > While an Ada JavaScript implementation might (or might not) be more secure > than a C implementation, it seems to me that any vulnerability related to the > JavaScript language itself would still be a risk. A major flaw in Javascript is how its type system was built, I think. (The vulnerabilities being listed in the Top 25 vulnerabilities of 2010.) Being less prejudiced against Ada (or even Pascal) could have helped with giving Javascript a robust foundation: 1 - they obviously used (the dark side of) duct tape programming when wrapping the fundamental types of C, lazily. Perhaps in order to ship something quickly. For the C types, chose those available on a given platform...! (IINM) Looking at the "flexible" phrasing in the Javascript ECMA standard still makes me sad. BTW, Ruby has the very same problems with its base types. This problem---it seems to have spread across "scripting" languages---does not seem to be easy to correct after the fact. 2 - The higher level Javascript stuff looks like it is borrowed from CLOS. What does Ada have to offer here? Can it improve a poor man's CLOS implementation so it becomes better than one built atop a C implementation? > In any case, the real benefit of such a project would be more in the > development of associated libraries and supporting code (imagine processing, > HTML parsing and rendering, CSS handling, etc, etc)... and in the visibility > a successful project would give to Ada. I suspect Ada was first standardized > before many current web developers were born; it might be fun to see what > sort of reception an Ada web browser project would get in that community. I think image processing or movie handling could profit. The reason is that Ada programmers, by stereotype or nature, will think about sizes and boundary cases. Speed is near C's as is once again demonstrated by the Mandelbrot entry in the Shootout. However, Ada's run-time systems are not (yet?) supporting multicores that well. If it matters. > Anyway a good first step might be the implementation of an HTML 5 parser in > Ada. What is an HTML 5 parser supposed to be? If it is to parse the SGML text defined by the HTML 5 grammar then you would, in effect, have to copy browsers' near natural language processing capabilities, since having only an SGML parser with little more than moderate error correction capabilities is by far not enough for HTML. Some browsers have a parser switch, IIRC. Switch to best effort mode for the important, but junk, HTML code that is out there, inevitably, new or old. Or be more optimistic and make an attempt at treating input text as if is was well formed XML text. If it is to be a cooperative component of an HTML 5 system, it needs to play well with Javascript, CSS, and all sorts of media and HTML 5 type storage capabilities. (Load data from local storage, have Javascript add some remote XML, merge that, apply CSS, etc...) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-25 10:41 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-25 16:29 ` Peter C. Chapin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Peter C. Chapin @ 2010-04-25 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Georg Bauhaus wrote: > What is an HTML 5 parser supposed to be? > > If it is to parse the SGML text defined by the HTML 5 grammar > then you would, in effect, have to copy browsers' near natural language > processing capabilities, since having only an SGML parser with little > more than moderate error correction capabilities is by far not enough > for HTML. > > Some browsers have a parser switch, IIRC. Switch to best effort > mode for the important, but junk, HTML code that is out there, > inevitably, new or old. Or be more optimistic and > make an attempt at treating input text as if is was well formed > XML text. HTML 5 is intended to address (fix) the current horrible mess by specifying in a reasonably precise way exactly how erroneous documents are to be handled. That is, all HTML 5 implementations should handle bad documents in a similar manner. Note that HTML 5 is *not* an SGML markup... nor is it intended to be. A fully functioning web browser in today's world needs to handle "tag soup" documents. Maybe someday that will no longer be necessary. Still... a clean room implementation of HTML 5, in Ada, might be a nice contribution to the cause of creating a better web browser. I wonder if there are any easily identifyable security critical components that could benefit from SPARK. Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-24 0:38 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-25 5:38 ` Gautier write-only 2010-04-25 10:41 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2010-04-26 15:37 ` Warren 2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Warren @ 2010-04-26 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Peter C. Chapin expounded in news:4bd23c72$0$2399$4d3efbfe@news.sover.net: > Gautier write-only wrote: > >> My impression is that a good part of vulnerabilities are indeed >> within plug-ins, another good part is between the browser and a >> plug-in (typically, browser X need to be patched but not the others >> nor the plug-in), and the third part, important as well, is about >> CSS, JavaScript, image storage or decoding, XML, HTML parsing and >> other core parts of browsers. > > I had actually thought that building a web browser in Ada would be a > nice project (if only I had more time!). I'm not sure how much of a > difference in security it would make... probably some. > > Any browser that could be realistically used would need to support > JavaScript. While an Ada JavaScript implementation might (or might > not) be more secure than a C implementation, it seems to me that any > vulnerability related to the JavaScript language itself would still be > a risk. .. > Peter To do it "right" would involve rewriting almost everything above the O/S level, as you implied. Everything including the image rendering libraries would be necessary. The trick perhaps, is to convince the Military to do it as an open sourced project. ;-) Warren ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-23 8:03 Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only 2010-04-23 13:56 ` Maciej Sobczak @ 2010-04-24 9:51 ` leonid 2010-04-25 5:04 ` Gautier write-only 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: leonid @ 2010-04-24 9:51 UTC (permalink / raw) On Apr 23, 11:03 am, Gautier write-only <gautier_niou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > There are discussions from time to time, since very long, about > writing a Web browser in Ada. > The main idea would have a safe browser. > Actually today's issues about security in Web browsers remarkably seem > of the same kind as ten years ago, just a bit more frequent and acute. > Did someone give a try ? > I guess the following libraries would be considered: > - AWS, for the HTTP requests > - GtKAda, for a portable GUI > - the least possible bindings and the most possible Ada code for > decoding images and other contents > _________________________________________________________ > Gautier's Ada programming --http://sf.net/users/gdemont/ > NB: For a direct answer, e-mail address on the following web site:http://www.fechtenafz.ethz.ch/wm_email.htm Hi, you may try Webkit example in Qt4ada , as a simple web browser http://users1.jabry.com/adastudio/index.html Leonid ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Web browser in Ada 2010-04-24 9:51 ` leonid @ 2010-04-25 5:04 ` Gautier write-only 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Gautier write-only @ 2010-04-25 5:04 UTC (permalink / raw) Thanks! Sure, there are ways to embed existing browsers into various GUI systems. My question was a bit different - about the browser itself. ______________________________________________________________ Gautier's Ada programming -- http://gautiersblog.blogspot.com/ NB: For a direct answer, e-mail address on the following web site: http://www.fechtenafz.ethz.ch/wm_email.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-04-27 17:56 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-04-23 8:03 Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only 2010-04-23 13:56 ` Maciej Sobczak 2010-04-23 14:37 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 11:41 ` Martin Krischik 2010-04-27 12:22 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 14:00 ` AdaMagica 2010-04-27 15:30 ` Integer overflow is int overflow (Re: Web browser in Ada) Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 16:13 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2010-04-27 17:09 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-27 17:56 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2010-04-23 21:33 ` Web browser in Ada Gautier write-only 2010-04-24 0:38 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-25 5:38 ` Gautier write-only 2010-04-25 16:24 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-25 10:41 ` Georg Bauhaus 2010-04-25 16:29 ` Peter C. Chapin 2010-04-26 15:37 ` Warren 2010-04-24 9:51 ` leonid 2010-04-25 5:04 ` Gautier write-only
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