Re: Future of Ada volunteer efforts

["stephane richard" <stephane.richard@verizon.net>]

"David Botton" <david@botton.com> wrote in message 
news:2004100315034364440%david@bottoncom...
>I thank you for the kind words the mean a lot to me.
>
Don't mention it ;-). The words came out because they were surely justified 
to do so in my book :-)

> There are things though the Ada community should have been doing and could 
> be doing to make volunteer efforts and the Ada community as a whole more 
> apealing, inspiring and vibrant. (perhaps this should be on the SigAda 
> TEAM-ADA list instead of here, but any ways)
>
Ummmm errrr...ahem ahem.....I guess you could forward it ;-).  I think both 
team-ada and c.l.a. members might need to know this.

> While I did do (no one ever closed any doors even if I haven't done 
> anything for some time, so I guess in a sense "do") some consulting work 
> in the Ada world for ACT my billing habits (or lack of billing) with them 
> will confirm that I never did Ada work "for the money". Neither do most of 
> the Ada folks that frequent/frequented C.L.A or create open source 
> projects (even if it is their source of "money"). There is something else 
> that makes most of us  "tick" and it is emotional not rational.
>
I've noticed that, in my own personal experiences with other Ada programmers 
here on c.l.a. and that, to me is what sets Ada developers (the gurus) apart 
from the gurus of other languages....in my own Ada learning experiences 
questions I've asked (some more stupid than others ;-) I've never felt like 
a student learning from a God.  This is more than I can say from other 
languages (and communities) I've been to when I learned those languages. 
It's all part of what "really" converted me to Ada.  I got answers to 
questions and got "put back on the right track" by the Ada Community and 
today I have them to thank for the programmer I've become.  My hat is off to 
Ada community for this and other reasons.

This is something I've also noticed when other programmers coming here to 
"find out more" about Ada, I've never seen other languages put down....all 
I've seen is "Ada can do it" and with examples on how it can be done, 
well....etc etc.... ;-).....From the other forums/language worshippers, I 
can't say the same.  They keep on putting down other languages simply 
because they don't understand them. That was at least the majority of the 
case.

> The problem with that is that to cultivate it requires a sensativity that 
> frequently has been lacking amongst us for both good and bad.
>
> The good is that those that hold on are the cream of the crop, some of the 
> best minds in software I've met are/were here on CLA, other lists, or at 
> the SigAda conference I spoke at some time ago.
>
> The bad is that lack of sensativity leads to outside people "seeing" Ada 
> as a bunch of has beens that are stroking each others egos for what they 
> once did with no future path to recognition and inclusion. That doesn't 
> mean to say that it is the case, but that the perception is that people 
> that are active in a public way on the net for Ada are not in the 
> limelight. The result is a public perception problem for those outside of 
> the old circles.
>
Based on my previous comments above, I almost have to object to this 
one...give or take an example or two...but most of the time I didn't notice 
that :-).

> If SigAda conferences included things like public recognition for the 
> latest new inovcations, a $10 plaque for people making efforts in the past 
> year not many years before, it would be a start... A student learning Ada 
> in school that participated in a public project that then got recognition 
> at a conference... now that is better than gold.
>
I think you're definitaly right here.  Something like that would be 
inviting.

> If a young programmer thought that one day he could be honored by the old 
> guard it goes a long way to getting volunteer efforts and Ada vibrant on 
> the net.
>
> I know that the kinds words from Tucker Taft and a hand shake from him 
> after my presentation meant a huge amount to me, but the lack of 
> recognition of AdaPower or any one elses volunteer projects from a lecturn 
> or in any other way by others also meant something.
>
If you're stating here that non commercial efforts towards Ada and the 
community well I do wonder some...Mind you i didn't get a 10$ plaque ;-). 
but being considered and add in related links section of such websites as 
DDC-I, ACT, The Ada Information Clearing House, and others, well I've found 
somekind of "honor and priviledge" to be present there :-).

> I know that I am an egostical self serving fool who failed to get his foot 
> in the door enough to stay in and whose inabilities to find time to 
> contribute as a result will eventually disapear, but my perceptions may 
> come in handy even if damning to myself to perhaps turn something like 
> SigAda, CLA and the Ada community in to an organization that is recruiting 
> the up and coming "youth" of the industry in to Ada instead of just 
> touting the rational strengths of the language that most people in the 
> public don't even care about.
>
That's the main problem, they seem to think that it's not worth caring about 
whereas it should be, at least, a serious concern.  They need to see why Ada 
can say things like "Would you get aboard an airplane programmed in any 
other language?"  you know? :-).

> Of course, if Robert Dewar was still on CLA he would likely argue that 
> this angle is not important and in many ways I know he is correct, but my 
> gut still tells me otherwise.
>
> David Botton

Well I don't know Robert Dewar, but I do know David Botton ;-).  to me, any 
angle is good, any point of view, idealism, simple reason, you name 
it....it's very good and just as important as the other angles.  This would 
be like saying that suddenly, when turning your eyes to see around you, you 
don't need any angle between straight ahead of you and to your 
left/right...you just need straight left and right that's it.  I'm happy 
with the way my eyes are working right now :-).  I think we might even need 
to find more angles even.  Angles that can reach even the non programmer but 
be powerful enough to tell the programming community that "hey, there's a 
reason Ada's still here."  Even in today's world.