* Decline? @ 2008-03-12 13:44 Thomas 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-12 13:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Today I stumbled on this fairly old (2003) paper on the merits (or lack of!) of Ada. http://www.sei.cmu.edu/pub/documents/03.reports/pdf/03tn021.pdf As I'm a complete beginner in Ada, I have no way of knowing if this paper is spot on, or way off. It doesn't really matter very much to me, as I'm just learnig Ada for fun (and so far I'm having lots of fun!), but should I ever decide to use it for any "real" projects, it's of course worth considering if the author, Jim Smith, is right in his bleak conclusion: ----- Program managers considering the technical and programmatic risks of incorporating specific programming languages in software-intensive systems could reasonably -conclude that Ada is a programming language with a dubious or nonexistent future. ----- Sounds awfully dark and gloomy eh? So, what's your take on this? Is Ada still an important player? Did Ada 2005 change anything? Is all well and good in the Ada world, and Jim Smith is simply blowing smoke out of his blowhole? Sincerely, Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 13:44 Decline? Thomas @ 2008-03-12 15:00 ` gpriv 2008-03-12 15:23 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta ` (2 more replies) 2008-03-12 19:24 ` Decline? Jeffrey R. Carter ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 3 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: gpriv @ 2008-03-12 15:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mar 12, 9:44 am, Thomas <tho...@kenshi.dk> wrote: > Today I stumbled on this fairly old (2003) paper on the merits (or lack > of!) of Ada. > > http://www.sei.cmu.edu/pub/documents/03.reports/pdf/03tn021.pdf > > As I'm a complete beginner in Ada, I have no way of knowing if this > paper is spot on, or way off. > > It doesn't really matter very much to me, as I'm just learnig Ada for > fun (and so far I'm having lots of fun!), but should I ever decide to > use it for any "real" projects, it's of course worth considering if the > author, Jim Smith, is right in his bleak conclusion: > > ----- > Program managers considering the technical and programmatic risks of > incorporating specific programming languages in software-intensive > systems could reasonably -conclude that Ada is a programming language > with a dubious or nonexistent future. > ----- > > Sounds awfully dark and gloomy eh? > > So, what's your take on this? Is Ada still an important player? Did Ada > 2005 change anything? Is all well and good in the Ada world, and Jim > Smith is simply blowing smoke out of his blowhole? > > Sincerely, > Thomas If popularity is the major criteria to choose the language we all should use VB. George. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv @ 2008-03-12 15:23 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-12 15:25 ` Decline? Thomas 2008-03-12 18:02 ` Decline? Dmitry A. Kazakov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-12 15:23 UTC (permalink / raw) > If popularity is the major criteria to choose the language we all > should use VB. Nah. VB is a niche language compared to COBOL. COBOL rules, man :) -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv 2008-03-12 15:23 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-12 15:25 ` Thomas 2008-03-13 0:42 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-12 18:02 ` Decline? Dmitry A. Kazakov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-12 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw) gpriv@axonx.com wrote: > > If popularity is the major criteria to choose the language we all > should use VB. > > George. Hehe, good point. I'm not so much worried about the popularity thing - it's more the "nonexistent future" statement that made me wonder. :o) Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 15:25 ` Decline? Thomas @ 2008-03-13 0:42 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 6:34 ` Decline? Thomas ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-13 0:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas writes: > gpriv@axonx.com wrote: >> >> If popularity is the major criteria to choose the language we all >> should use VB. >> >> George. > > Hehe, good point. > > I'm not so much worried about the popularity thing - it's more the > "nonexistent future" statement that made me wonder. The paper was published in 2003 and stated the future was "dubious or nonexistent". Since then: * a new revision of the language was published. * AdaCore and the FSF made several major releases of their compiler and IDE; * Aonix released their Eclipse Ada plug-in; * AdaControl (several releases); * Ada Web Server (several releases); * PolyORB (several releases); * the GNU Ada Project was started; * the amount of Ada sources shipped as part of Debian went from 576 kSLOC to 1 MSLOC (June 2005) to 1.3 MSLOC (April 2007); * the professional Ada conferences continued to take place; * Ada was featured at the "Rencontres Mondiales du Logiciel Libre" in 2004; * and again at FOSDEM 2006; * GNU/Linux Magazine France published a series of 17 articles by Yves Bailly, covering all aspects of the language (to the point where students I talked to thought Ada was "fashionable") I probably forgot lots of other noteworthy events but you get the idea. I think that's not too bad for a "dubious or nonexistent future". -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-13 0:42 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-13 6:34 ` Thomas 2008-03-13 10:08 ` Decline? VilleWitt 2008-03-13 18:00 ` Decline? Gene 2008-03-14 1:46 ` Decline? Randy Brukardt 2 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-13 6:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Ludovic Brenta wrote: > > The paper was published in 2003 and stated the future was "dubious or > nonexistent". Since then: > > * a new revision of the language was published. > * AdaCore and the FSF made several major releases of their compiler and IDE; > * Aonix released their Eclipse Ada plug-in; > * AdaControl (several releases); > * Ada Web Server (several releases); > * PolyORB (several releases); > * the GNU Ada Project was started; > * the amount of Ada sources shipped as part of Debian went from 576 kSLOC > to 1 MSLOC (June 2005) to 1.3 MSLOC (April 2007); > * the professional Ada conferences continued to take place; > * Ada was featured at the "Rencontres Mondiales du Logiciel Libre" in 2004; > * and again at FOSDEM 2006; > * GNU/Linux Magazine France published a series of 17 articles by Yves > Bailly, covering all aspects of the language (to the point where > students I talked to thought Ada was "fashionable") > > I probably forgot lots of other noteworthy events but you get the idea. > > I think that's not too bad for a "dubious or nonexistent future". I think you're absolutely right. It's good to know that the language I've started learning is alive and well. Thank you. :o) Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-13 6:34 ` Decline? Thomas @ 2008-03-13 10:08 ` VilleWitt 2008-03-13 10:28 ` Upsurge? (was: Decline?) Ludovic Brenta 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: VilleWitt @ 2008-03-13 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mar 13, 7:34 am, Thomas <tho...@kenshi.dk> wrote: > Ludovic Brenta wrote: > > > The paper was published in 2003 and stated the future was "dubious or > > nonexistent". Since then: > > > * a new revision of the language was published. > > * AdaCore and the FSF made several major releases of their compiler and IDE; > > * Aonix released their Eclipse Ada plug-in; > > * AdaControl (several releases); > > * Ada Web Server (several releases); > > * PolyORB (several releases); > > * the GNU Ada Project was started; > > * the amount of Ada sources shipped as part of Debian went from 576 kSLOC > > to 1 MSLOC (June 2005) to 1.3 MSLOC (April 2007); > > * the professional Ada conferences continued to take place; > > * Ada was featured at the "Rencontres Mondiales du Logiciel Libre" in 2004; > > * and again at FOSDEM 2006; > > * GNU/Linux Magazine France published a series of 17 articles by Yves > > Bailly, covering all aspects of the language (to the point where > > students I talked to thought Ada was "fashionable") > > > I probably forgot lots of other noteworthy events but you get the idea. > > > I think that's not too bad for a "dubious or nonexistent future". > > I think you're absolutely right. It's good to know that the language > I've started learning is alive and well. > > Thank you. :o) > Thomas I started to learn Ada 95 up to christmas '07, and I love it. I digged John Barnes Programming in Ada 95 after I read most of the Ada wikibook. Im from Denmark as well, and only when told to use other languages than Ada, I do. I starting to look at GNU HURD to see if any parts could be written in Ada, and it seems like it is possible, however no compiler is yet in Debian GNU/Hurd. Ville "GNU, Ada and dvorak - I may be crazy, but it is one elegant mix, when you get used to it!" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Upsurge? (was: Decline?) 2008-03-13 10:08 ` Decline? VilleWitt @ 2008-03-13 10:28 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Upsurge? Thomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-13 10:28 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: > I'm just learnig Ada for fun (and so far I'm having lots of fun!) VilleWitt wrote: > I started to learn Ada 95 up to christmas '07, and I love it. It is good to see new people learning out of interest and being vocal about it. I went that route in 2003. Out of curiosity, what brought you to Ada? -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-13 10:28 ` Upsurge? (was: Decline?) Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Thomas 2008-03-13 12:13 ` Upsurge? Alex R. Mosteo ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-13 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw) Ludovic Brenta wrote: > Thomas wrote: >> I'm just learnig Ada for fun (and so far I'm having lots of fun!) > > VilleWitt wrote: >> I started to learn Ada 95 up to christmas '07, and I love it. > > It is good to see new people learning out of interest and being vocal > about it. I went that route in 2003. Out of curiosity, what brought > you to Ada? > > -- > Ludovic Brenta. I've been working with PHP/XSLT/Javascript and some CLI scripting for years, and while I enjoy working with PHP (I don't much care for Javascript, but in the web world it's difficult to avoid), I felt the time had come for me to learn a "real" programming language. I had also become friends with a guy from America, an old school programmer with a solid background in languages like Forth, REXX and COBOL. We decided to help each other learn something new, and that was the final push I needed to get started. So I set out to find a language we could pick up. The obvious choices would've been C or perhaps C++, as there's an abundance of books/tutorials and communities. All my computers are running Slackware (he's on Opensuse), so all the tools needed would've been readily at hand. But it just seemed so boring. Everybody and his monkey are doing C/C++/C#. There's an air of "been there, done that" surrounding those languages, IMHO. I also thought about Java, but it just seemed like such a pain to get even the simplest things going. I may not have given it a real chance, but if you're almost bored to death 10 minutes into your first tutorial, then it's probably not the right choice. Also my American friend had no lost love for Java. What in the end made me decide on Ada was http://rosettacode.org I looked at the different tasks and the solutions posted, and Ada just intrigued me. I began reading a bit about it, and the more I read, the more it seemed like THIS was the language I was going to learn. It was massively different from what I was used to working with, so it would really put my brain to the test. I suggested it, and my friend agreed, and here we are. So far we've been learning Ada for 3-4 weeks, and we're having a blast! It's difficult, it's hard, it's completely different from what we're used to. It's just the right thing. I personally really look forward to the day where I can build a piece of software using Ada, just as easy as I can with PHP today. There's quite a few things running in my company I would like to do in Ada, and seeing as I own the company, I can do as I damn well please. :D Regards, Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Upsurge? Thomas @ 2008-03-13 12:13 ` Alex R. Mosteo 2008-03-14 14:45 ` Upsurge? Ludovic Brenta ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Alex R. Mosteo @ 2008-03-13 12:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: > Ludovic Brenta wrote: >> Thomas wrote: >>> I'm just learnig Ada for fun (and so far I'm having lots of fun!) >> >> VilleWitt wrote: >>> I started to learn Ada 95 up to christmas '07, and I love it. >> >> It is good to see new people learning out of interest and being vocal >> about it. I went that route in 2003. Out of curiosity, what brought >> you to Ada? >> >> -- >> Ludovic Brenta. > > > I've been working with PHP/XSLT/Javascript and some CLI scripting for > years, and while I enjoy working with PHP (I don't much care for > Javascript, but in the web world it's difficult to avoid), I felt the > time had come for me to learn a "real" programming language. > If you're into web business, you might as well find interesting AWS, which is an excellent Ada embedded web server with accompanying tool suite. I especially like the embeddable resources (useful in many Ada programs, besides web oriented) and the templates parser for generation of reports/web pages. https://libre.adacore.com/aws/ > (...) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-13 12:13 ` Upsurge? Alex R. Mosteo @ 2008-03-14 14:45 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-14 15:26 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-17 14:35 ` Ada UK, was: Upsurge? Simon Clubley 2008-03-15 7:39 ` Upsurge? Stephen Leake 2008-03-20 5:51 ` Upsurge? DScott 3 siblings, 2 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-14 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: > What in the end made me decide on Ada was http://rosettacode.org Funny, I wasn't aware of this site and I'm surprised at the large number of samples for Ada. So, you can add to my list of "things that happened since 2003": * Many code samples posted on rosettacode.org by Ada enthusiasts * Wikibook "Ada Programming" written from scratch by enthusiasts, then voted a "Featured Book" in, I believe, 2006. Furthermore, part of the work for designing and publishing Ada 2005 was funded by Ada-Europe and ACM SIGAda (for the USA). If you want to help make Ada's future a bright one, I recommend you become a member and contribute financially (the membership fees are very low). There are benefits; for example, if you join Ada-Europe within the next couple of weeks, you'll receive a printed copy of the Ada 2005 Rationale by John Barnes. See http://www.ada-europe.org or your national Ada user group. -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-14 14:45 ` Upsurge? Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-14 15:26 ` Thomas 2008-03-15 11:41 ` Ada i Danmark (Was: Upsurge?) Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-17 12:09 ` Upsurge? Poul-Erik Andreasen 2008-03-17 14:35 ` Ada UK, was: Upsurge? Simon Clubley 1 sibling, 2 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-14 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw) Ludovic Brenta wrote: > Thomas wrote: >> What in the end made me decide on Ada was http://rosettacode.org > > Funny, I wasn't aware of this site and I'm surprised at the large > number of samples for Ada. So, you can add to my list of "things that > happened since 2003": > > * Many code samples posted on rosettacode.org by Ada enthusiasts > * Wikibook "Ada Programming" written from scratch by enthusiasts, then > voted a "Featured Book" in, I believe, 2006. > > Furthermore, part of the work for designing and publishing Ada 2005 > was funded by Ada-Europe and ACM SIGAda (for the USA). If you want to > help make Ada's future a bright one, I recommend you become a member > and contribute financially (the membership fees are very low). There > are benefits; for example, if you join Ada-Europe within the next > couple of weeks, you'll receive a printed copy of the Ada 2005 > Rationale by John Barnes. See http://www.ada-europe.org or your > national Ada user group. > > -- > Ludovic Brenta. I can only encourage all you skilled Ada people to help build an even larger collection of Ada examples on rosettacode.org. It's a great idea, and I'm certain it could help further Ada. Every little bit helps! Oh, and it's also an awesome resource for a beginning Ada programmer. Sometimes cookbook examples are so much easier to understand than books. :o) I've contacted the national danish Ada group to hear how I can help support Ada. Sadly the danish Ada group website is currently dead (perhaps there's something a webmonkey like me can help with!), but hopefully the email registered at ada-europe.org is valid. Time will tell. Thanks a lot for the link Ludovic. Regards, Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Ada i Danmark (Was: Upsurge?) 2008-03-14 15:26 ` Upsurge? Thomas @ 2008-03-15 11:41 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-15 16:22 ` Thomas 2008-03-17 12:09 ` Upsurge? Poul-Erik Andreasen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-15 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: > I've contacted the national danish Ada group to hear how I can help > support Ada. We're not very active at the moment. I am considering to arrange a get-together for the members, but I haven't actually done anything about it yet. Another plan is to restart the Ada programming workshops I earlier arranged in cooperation with the Linux user group in Copenhagen. Basically somebody has to decide a date. > Sadly the danish Ada group website is currently dead I wasn't aware of that. (But then, I never used it for anything.) > (perhaps there's something a webmonkey like me can help with!), but > hopefully the email registered at ada-europe.org is valid. Time will > tell. I am pretty sure it is. Otherwise you can contact me. Greetings, Jacob -- "... while the C compiler will happily generate code for almost anything produced by leaning on the keyboard." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada i Danmark (Was: Upsurge?) 2008-03-15 11:41 ` Ada i Danmark (Was: Upsurge?) Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-15 16:22 ` Thomas 2008-03-15 21:19 ` Ada i Danmark Jacob Sparre Andersen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-15 16:22 UTC (permalink / raw) Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote: > We're not very active at the moment. I am considering to arrange a > get-together for the members, but I haven't actually done anything > about it yet. Another plan is to restart the Ada programming > workshops I earlier arranged in cooperation with the Linux user group > in Copenhagen. Basically somebody has to decide a date. How many members are there in Denmark? > >> Sadly the danish Ada group website is currently dead > > I wasn't aware of that. (But then, I never used it for anything.) > >> (perhaps there's something a webmonkey like me can help with!), but >> hopefully the email registered at ada-europe.org is valid. Time will >> tell. > > I am pretty sure it is. Otherwise you can contact me. I will! Email is on the way. :o) Regards Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada i Danmark 2008-03-15 16:22 ` Thomas @ 2008-03-15 21:19 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-15 21:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: [ the Danish Ada association ] > How many members are there in Denmark? I think we are somewhere between 10 and 20 members. Greetings, Jacob -- "simply because no one had discovered a cure for the universe as a whole - or rather the only one that did exist had been abolished" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-14 15:26 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-15 11:41 ` Ada i Danmark (Was: Upsurge?) Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-17 12:09 ` Poul-Erik Andreasen 2008-03-17 14:58 ` Upsurge? Thomas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Poul-Erik Andreasen @ 2008-03-17 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: > Ludovic Brenta wrote: >> Thomas wrote: >>> What in the end made me decide on Ada was http://rosettacode.org >> >> Funny, I wasn't aware of this site and I'm surprised at the large >> number of samples for Ada. So, you can add to my list of "things that >> happened since 2003": >> >> * Many code samples posted on rosettacode.org by Ada enthusiasts >> * Wikibook "Ada Programming" written from scratch by enthusiasts, then >> voted a "Featured Book" in, I believe, 2006. >> >> Furthermore, part of the work for designing and publishing Ada 2005 >> was funded by Ada-Europe and ACM SIGAda (for the USA). If you want to >> help make Ada's future a bright one, I recommend you become a member >> and contribute financially (the membership fees are very low). There >> are benefits; for example, if you join Ada-Europe within the next >> couple of weeks, you'll receive a printed copy of the Ada 2005 >> Rationale by John Barnes. See http://www.ada-europe.org or your >> national Ada user group. >> >> -- >> Ludovic Brenta. > > > I can only encourage all you skilled Ada people to help build an even > larger collection of Ada examples on rosettacode.org. It's a great idea, > and I'm certain it could help further Ada. Every little bit helps! Oh, > and it's also an awesome resource for a beginning Ada programmer. > Sometimes cookbook examples are so much easier to understand than books. > :o) > > I've contacted the national danish Ada group to hear how I can help > support Ada. > > Sadly the danish Ada group website is currently dead (perhaps there's > something a webmonkey like me can help with!), but hopefully the email > registered at ada-europe.org is valid. Time will tell. I am encounterring a serius server crash, and i don't have the means for the time being to set up a new server.Perhaps we can find another solution. Poul-Erik Andreasen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-17 12:09 ` Upsurge? Poul-Erik Andreasen @ 2008-03-17 14:58 ` Thomas 0 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-17 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Poul-Erik Andreasen wrote: > I am encounterring a serius server crash, and i don't have the means for > the time being to set up a new server.Perhaps we can find another solution. I might be able to help Poul-Erik. What do we need? Regards, Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Ada UK, was: Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-14 14:45 ` Upsurge? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-14 15:26 ` Upsurge? Thomas @ 2008-03-17 14:35 ` Simon Clubley 2008-03-18 11:29 ` Ludovic Brenta 1 sibling, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Simon Clubley @ 2008-03-17 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <f70e10ff-2feb-4b3d-a53d-22e9152e858d@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ludovic Brenta <ludovic@ludovic-brenta.org> writes: > > Furthermore, part of the work for designing and publishing Ada 2005 > was funded by Ada-Europe and ACM SIGAda (for the USA). If you want to > help make Ada's future a bright one, I recommend you become a member > and contribute financially (the membership fees are very low). There > are benefits; for example, if you join Ada-Europe within the next > couple of weeks, you'll receive a printed copy of the Ada 2005 > Rationale by John Barnes. See http://www.ada-europe.org or your > national Ada user group. > I notice that there isn't a national Ada UK organisation listed on http://www.ada-europe.org/members.html but I thought that one existed. Was I mistaken or has it closed ? Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK, was: Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-17 14:35 ` Ada UK, was: Upsurge? Simon Clubley @ 2008-03-18 11:29 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-18 12:11 ` Dirk Craeynest 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-18 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Simon Clubley wrote: > Ludovic Brenta writes: > > Furthermore, part of the work for designing and publishing Ada 2005 > > was funded by Ada-Europe and ACM SIGAda (for the USA). If you want to > > help make Ada's future a bright one, I recommend you become a member > > and contribute financially (the membership fees are very low). There > > are benefits; for example, if you join Ada-Europe within the next > > couple of weeks, you'll receive a printed copy of the Ada 2005 > > Rationale by John Barnes. See http://www.ada-europe.org or your > > national Ada user group. > > I notice that there isn't a national Ada UK organisation listed on > http://www.ada-europe.org/members.html but I thought that one existed. > > Was I mistaken or has it closed ? Officially, it merged into Ada-Europe a few years ago. Its former publication, "Ada User", eventually became Ada-Europe's quarterly "Ada User Journal". So, if you are interested in the AUJ and the Ada 2005 Rationale, you can become a direct member of Ada-Europe. (Personally, I think it is a shame that the UK, probably the European country with the most Ada developers, now lacks a national organisation and corresponding vote in ISO ballots.) -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK, was: Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-18 11:29 ` Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-18 12:11 ` Dirk Craeynest 0 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Dirk Craeynest @ 2008-03-18 12:11 UTC (permalink / raw) About the existence of Ada UK, Simon Clubley wrote: > > Was I mistaken or has it closed ? and Ludovic Brenta responded: > Officially, it merged into Ada-Europe a few years ago. Indeed: in early 2004 Ada UK effectively stopped operations and transferred its membership application and renewal process to Ada- Europe. The announcement that was distributed at that time can still be retrieved at <http://web.archive.org/web/20031206045442/http:// www.adauk.org.uk/>. > Its former > publication, "Ada User", eventually became Ada-Europe's quarterly "Ada > User Journal". So, if you are interested in the AUJ and the Ada 2005 > Rationale, you can become a direct member of Ada-Europe. See <http://www.ada-europe.org/join.html> for more info. > (Personally, I think it is a shame that the UK, probably the European > country with the most Ada developers, now lacks a national > organisation and corresponding vote in ISO ballots.) Note that the UK is still represented in WG9, the ISO working group on Ada: see <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/WG9/members.htm>. But this obviously happens outside the context of a national Ada organization... Given all the Ada work going on in the UK, and the recent Ada conferences there in the past 3 years, it would be great if a few people would get together and recreate an Ada UK organization. Anyway, for now I can only strongly concur with Ludovic and encourage everyone in the UK who's interested in Ada-Europe's activities to apply for direct Ada-Europe membership. We're looking forward to many new members! Dirk Craeynest Ada-Europe vice-president ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-13 12:13 ` Upsurge? Alex R. Mosteo 2008-03-14 14:45 ` Upsurge? Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-15 7:39 ` Stephen Leake 2008-03-20 5:51 ` Upsurge? DScott 3 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2008-03-15 7:39 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas <thomas@kenshi.dk> writes: > What in the end made me decide on Ada was http://rosettacode.org Now that's a good reason to update that site with more Ada solutions. Everyone who is complaining about the declining popularity of Ada should go there, pick a task they know how to do in Ada, and post the solution! -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Upsurge? Thomas ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2008-03-15 7:39 ` Upsurge? Stephen Leake @ 2008-03-20 5:51 ` DScott 2008-03-20 8:21 ` Upsurge? Thomas 3 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: DScott @ 2008-03-20 5:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: ... > I had also become friends with ... an old school > programmer with a solid background in languages like Forth, REXX and > COBOL. ROFLMAO! Thanks, Kaz! -- Fui et vidi experiri. =DSM= ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-20 5:51 ` Upsurge? DScott @ 2008-03-20 8:21 ` Thomas 2008-03-20 20:06 ` Upsurge? DScott 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-20 8:21 UTC (permalink / raw) DScott wrote: > Thomas wrote: > ... >> I had also become friends with ... an old school programmer with a >> solid background in languages like Forth, REXX and COBOL. > ROFLMAO! > Thanks, Kaz! > Hehe, I was wondering when you would turn up! I guess the old satellite connection is back with a vengeance then? Two Ada newbies in the same comp.lang.ada thread - indeed we're seeing an Upsurge! :o) /Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-20 8:21 ` Upsurge? Thomas @ 2008-03-20 20:06 ` DScott 2008-03-21 9:44 ` Upsurge? Thomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: DScott @ 2008-03-20 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: ... > Hehe, I was wondering when you would turn up! I guess the old satellite > connection is back with a vengeance then? > > Two Ada newbies in the same comp.lang.ada thread - indeed we're seeing > an Upsurge! > > :o) > /Thomas Yes. Bandwidth problem and "keep alive" fixed. Now I need to get IRC back on before all my nick's expire! BTW: Have you cajoled any of these lovely people into giving us a dissertation committee flogging about our first effort? They'll have to forgive us, at least, for not writing multitasking at 3 weeks post-natal! ;) Bwahahaha! -- Fui et vidi experiri. <=(starting with the Bendix LGP-30) =DSM= ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Upsurge? 2008-03-20 20:06 ` Upsurge? DScott @ 2008-03-21 9:44 ` Thomas 0 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Thomas @ 2008-03-21 9:44 UTC (permalink / raw) DScott wrote: > > BTW: Have you cajoled any of these lovely people into giving us a > dissertation committee flogging about our first effort? They'll have to > forgive us, at least, for not writing multitasking at 3 weeks > post-natal! ;) > Bwahahaha! > I haven't asked yet, but I plan on setting up a bunch of pastebin links to bits of our code when we've cleaned it up according to our own slightly modified Ada Style Guid. It should provide comp.lang.ada with a few cheap laughs. :o) -- /Thomas L�cke -- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong -- and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a -- thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually -- turns out to be impossible to get at or repair. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-13 0:42 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 6:34 ` Decline? Thomas @ 2008-03-13 18:00 ` Gene 2008-03-13 19:50 ` Decline? Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-14 1:46 ` Decline? Randy Brukardt 2 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Gene @ 2008-03-13 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mar 12, 8:42 pm, Ludovic Brenta <ludo...@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote: > Thomas writes: > > gp...@axonx.com wrote: > > >> If popularity is the major criteria to choose the language we all > >> should use VB. > > >> George. > > > Hehe, good point. > > > I'm not so much worried about the popularity thing - it's more the > > "nonexistent future" statement that made me wonder. > > The paper was published in 2003 and stated the future was "dubious or > nonexistent". Since then: > > * a new revision of the language was published. > * AdaCore and the FSF made several major releases of their compiler and IDE; > * Aonix released their Eclipse Ada plug-in; > * AdaControl (several releases); > * Ada Web Server (several releases); > * PolyORB (several releases); > * the GNU Ada Project was started; > * the amount of Ada sources shipped as part of Debian went from 576 kSLOC > to 1 MSLOC (June 2005) to 1.3 MSLOC (April 2007); > * the professional Ada conferences continued to take place; > * Ada was featured at the "Rencontres Mondiales du Logiciel Libre" in 2004; > * and again at FOSDEM 2006; > * GNU/Linux Magazine France published a series of 17 articles by Yves > Bailly, covering all aspects of the language (to the point where > students I talked to thought Ada was "fashionable") > > I probably forgot lots of other noteworthy events but you get the idea. > > I think that's not too bad for a "dubious or nonexistent future". > Thanks. We're one of the schools mentioned in this depressing document that uses Ada for CS1 and CS2. We're still firm believers that there exist zero better languages for _educating_ computer scientists. Fortunately we also have zero need to train enty level programmers in our CS major, which most schools do. I have to confess that we have recently changed the last semester of the CS3 course to Java for a number of reasons, not least of which is to give students a sense that they may, after lots of hard work, have earned the knowledge to operate in that environment without mother Ada to keep them on the straight path. The Air Force Academy, also mentioned, has, I regret to say, gone over to the dark side. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-13 18:00 ` Decline? Gene @ 2008-03-13 19:50 ` Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-14 16:29 ` Decline? Eric Hughes 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2008-03-13 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, 2008-03-13 at 11:00 -0700, Gene wrote: > The Air Force Academy, also mentioned, has, I regret to say, gone over > to the dark side. Ignoring, for the moment, the inevitable force of "Hey, the party is over there, now!". What I still don't understand (from my remote point of view), is this: some of the attractiveness of Java appears to be connected with @Annotations and special VMs, these days. (I understand this creates opportunities for producing more guarantees, e.g. regarding lifetime or memory use, in many ways.) At least a number of features of this kind seem to correspond more or less directly with plain vanilla properties of the Ada language. We have two compilers producing J-code from Ada source. Using them, we'd just have to write Ada with no more int-based array indexing, no need to ..., ... OK. Can there be any doubt that language choice has statistically little to do with language influences on production and maintenance, but is really just a social, P.O.E.T.ical process? (Problem 1 (economy). Assign weights to P, O, E, and T totaling 1.0.) Hm. The language preference process has already found one declared end, reportedly for Ada. Let's see whether this Java one succeeds in becoming management's paradise. -- Georg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-13 19:50 ` Decline? Georg Bauhaus @ 2008-03-14 16:29 ` Eric Hughes 0 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Eric Hughes @ 2008-03-14 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mar 13, 1:50 pm, Georg Bauhaus <rm.plus- bug.t...@maps.futureapps.de> wrote: > What I still don't understand (from my remote point of view), > is this: some of the attractiveness of Java appears to be > connected with @Annotations and special VMs, these days. > (I understand this creates opportunities for producing more > guarantees, e.g. regarding lifetime or memory use, in many ways.) And Java 6 adds support for compile-time processing of annotations, not just VM support. View annotations as language extensions with clunky syntax. It's a way of prototyping language features without maintaining an entire compiler. I fully expect that the most successful annotation systems are going to end up supported natively by the language itself. This group of features lowers the bar to participation lower than it ever has been. The larger participant pool means a wider distribution of quality, which means more great ideas at the high end of the distribution tail. Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-13 0:42 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 6:34 ` Decline? Thomas 2008-03-13 18:00 ` Decline? Gene @ 2008-03-14 1:46 ` Randy Brukardt 2008-03-14 7:57 ` Decline? Stefan.Lucks 2 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Randy Brukardt @ 2008-03-14 1:46 UTC (permalink / raw) "Ludovic Brenta" <ludovic@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote in message news:87tzjb8nfa.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org... ... > The paper was published in 2003 and stated the future was "dubious or > nonexistent". Since then: > > * a new revision of the language was published. You can add to that: * A new version of the ACATS (test suite) has been released for the new revision of the language; * John Barnes updated his huge Ada textbook for the new revision of the language (and I believe that Burns/Welling did the same with their book). Randy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-14 1:46 ` Decline? Randy Brukardt @ 2008-03-14 7:57 ` Stefan.Lucks 2008-03-14 9:30 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) Jacob Sparre Andersen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 43+ messages in thread From: Stefan.Lucks @ 2008-03-14 7:57 UTC (permalink / raw) > * John Barnes updated his huge Ada textbook for the new revision of the > language (and I believe that Burns/Welling did the same with their book). I can confirm that -- I recently received my copy of the revised Burns/Wellings book. -- ------ Stefan Lucks -- Bauhaus-University Weimar -- Germany ------ Stefan dot Lucks at uni minus weimar dot de ------ I love the taste of Cryptanalysis in the morning! ------ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Textbooks (Was: Decline?) 2008-03-14 7:57 ` Decline? Stefan.Lucks @ 2008-03-14 9:30 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-14 11:39 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-22 16:11 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) stefan-lucks 0 siblings, 2 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-14 9:30 UTC (permalink / raw) Stefan.Lucks@medien.uni-weimar.de writes: >> * John Barnes updated his huge Ada textbook for the new revision of the >> language (and I believe that Burns/Welling did the same with their book). > > I can confirm that -- I recently received my copy of the revised > Burns/Wellings book. I have used Barnes' "Programming in Ada 2005", but I am not completely happy with it as a textbook. I think a part of the problem is in the exercises. It takes too many pages to get to some working (read: compilable) examples. In addition to this I have my students' complaints that Barnes occassionally seems to be preaching rather than teaching. (This isn't something that bothers me directly.) How does Burns' and Wellings' "Concurrent and Real-Time Programming in Ada" compare to "Programming in Ada 2005" as a textbook? Greetings, Jacob -- "No! The universe is ours." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks (Was: Decline?) 2008-03-14 9:30 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-14 11:39 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-14 13:56 ` Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-15 23:38 ` adaworks 2008-03-22 16:11 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) stefan-lucks 1 sibling, 2 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Peter C. Chapin @ 2008-03-14 11:39 UTC (permalink / raw) Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote: > How does Burns' and Wellings' "Concurrent and Real-Time Programming in > Ada" compare to "Programming in Ada 2005" as a textbook? I don't think the Burns/Wellings book would make a good textbook... at least not in a first course on Ada. It is too specialized and doesn't spend much time talking about the non-tasking aspects of the language. It would probably be wonderful for a correspondingly specialized course but for a general course on Ada, it isn't really what one would want. I'm teaching Ada this semester and I am *not* using the Barnes book as the text book. I considered doing so. However, the problem is that the Barnes book is a bit too detailed; it contains all kinds of information that my first time Ada programmers would probably find distracting and/or confusing. I did show them the book in class and said, "If you are interested in going further with Ada you should definitely get a copy of this book." A couple of them wrote down the ISBN but I'm not sure if any of them did buy it. For a text book in my class I've been using some free resources such as the Wikibook and "Ada Distilled." However, I haven't been entirely satisfied with that. The problem is that those resources present the material in an order that isn't compatible with my approach to teaching. Specifically they tend to throw moderately advanced topics into the middle of discussions on more elementary topics. Thus I have to tell my students, "read sections x, y, and z, but skip subsections x.3, y.5, and the material on blah." These instructions are more complicated than necessary and I'm sure they make the readings seem a bit disconnected. I'm working with second year students so a nice textbook would be helpful. When I teach the seniors I usually just say, "This material is covered in the book," and leave it to them to figure out where. In that case a carefully organized textbook is less necessary. Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks (Was: Decline?) 2008-03-14 11:39 ` Peter C. Chapin @ 2008-03-14 13:56 ` Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-15 23:38 ` adaworks 1 sibling, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2008-03-14 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 2008-03-14 at 07:39 -0400, Peter C. Chapin wrote: > I'm working with second year students so a nice textbook would be > helpful. When I teach the seniors I usually just say, "This material is > covered in the book," and leave it to them to figure out where. In that > case a carefully organized textbook is less necessary. IMHO, one of the best books introducing just Ada to the beginning student is Naiditch, David: Rendezvous with Ada 95. Jon Wiley & Sons. While the sentences in this book are so simple that you might think they are too simple, this is deceptive. A teacher insisting on careful reading of simple sentences will have everyone profit. The book is written with a definitive pedagogical attitude, it seems full of experience, and is sparkling with elucidating hints (anonymous means nameless). "In order for two tasks to interface, one task must call the other task. The task that does the calling is known as the calling task. The task that is called is known as the acceptor task." (p.509) When did you last hear of an acceptor task? Does it give some new insight into why there is an "accept" keyword in the language? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks (Was: Decline?) 2008-03-14 11:39 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-14 13:56 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2008-03-15 23:38 ` adaworks 2008-03-16 0:25 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-16 7:38 ` Textbooks Jacob Sparre Andersen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: adaworks @ 2008-03-15 23:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Ada Distilled includes a complete set of fully-coded programs that work. When you use that book, be sure to also download the separate file that includes the programs. Then, you can present those programs in any order you wish. I have intended to update Ada Distilled for Ada 2005, but my time has been taken by other duties. If I am able to complete the major project I am currently working on (in between my teaching duties) by the end of June, I'll try to get started on an updated version of Ada Distilled. Any work I do on it is unfunded and strictly a labor of love, so it needs to take a lower priority than those duties that do help me pay my mortgage and entertain my grandchildren. Since Ada Distilled is in the public domain, I welcome any initiative to update it by the community. I don't make any money from it so it belongs to everyone with an interest in Ada. Richard Riehle ====================================================== "Peter C. Chapin" <pchapin@sover.net> wrote in message news:47da6400$0$1774$4d3efbfe@news.sover.net... > Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote: > >> How does Burns' and Wellings' "Concurrent and Real-Time Programming in >> Ada" compare to "Programming in Ada 2005" as a textbook? > > I don't think the Burns/Wellings book would make a good textbook... at least > not in a first course on Ada. It is too specialized and doesn't spend much > time talking about the non-tasking aspects of the language. It would probably > be wonderful for a correspondingly specialized course but for a general course > on Ada, it isn't really what one would want. > > I'm teaching Ada this semester and I am *not* using the Barnes book as the > text book. I considered doing so. However, the problem is that the Barnes book > is a bit too detailed; it contains all kinds of information that my first time > Ada programmers would probably find distracting and/or confusing. I did show > them the book in class and said, "If you are interested in going further with > Ada you should definitely get a copy of this book." A couple of them wrote > down the ISBN but I'm not sure if any of them did buy it. > > For a text book in my class I've been using some free resources such as the > Wikibook and "Ada Distilled." However, I haven't been entirely satisfied with > that. The problem is that those resources present the material in an order > that isn't compatible with my approach to teaching. Specifically they tend to > throw moderately advanced topics into the middle of discussions on more > elementary topics. Thus I have to tell my students, "read sections x, y, and > z, but skip subsections x.3, y.5, and the material on blah." These > instructions are more complicated than necessary and I'm sure they make the > readings seem a bit disconnected. > > I'm working with second year students so a nice textbook would be helpful. > When I teach the seniors I usually just say, "This material is covered in the > book," and leave it to them to figure out where. In that case a carefully > organized textbook is less necessary. > > Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks (Was: Decline?) 2008-03-15 23:38 ` adaworks @ 2008-03-16 0:25 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-16 7:38 ` Textbooks Jacob Sparre Andersen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Peter C. Chapin @ 2008-03-16 0:25 UTC (permalink / raw) adaworks@sbcglobal.net wrote: > Ada Distilled includes a complete set of fully-coded programs that work. > When you use that book, be sure to also download the separate file that > includes the programs. Then, you can present those programs in any > order you wish. Thanks for the information, I'll check it out. > I have intended to update Ada Distilled for Ada 2005, but my time has > been taken by other duties. If I am able to complete the major project > I am currently working on (in between my teaching duties) by the end > of June, I'll try to get started on an updated version of Ada Distilled. An update would be great, of course, but I understand very well the limitations of time. I'd love to be able to say that I could help update it, but the reality is that my time constraints are too great for that. Peter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks 2008-03-15 23:38 ` adaworks 2008-03-16 0:25 ` Peter C. Chapin @ 2008-03-16 7:38 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-16 19:51 ` Textbooks adaworks 2008-03-17 13:16 ` Textbooks John McCormick 1 sibling, 2 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-16 7:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Richard Riehle wrote: > Ada Distilled includes a complete set of fully-coded programs that > work. When you use that book, be sure to also download the separate > file that includes the programs. Then, you can present those > programs in any order you wish. I have tried to use Ada Distilled in a course, but it didn't work out as well as I had hoped. Mostly because I wasn't teaching experienced programmers. For inexperienced students, it isn't quite right. Greetings, Jacob -- "... while the C compiler will happily generate code for almost anything produced by leaning on the keyboard." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks 2008-03-16 7:38 ` Textbooks Jacob Sparre Andersen @ 2008-03-16 19:51 ` adaworks 2008-03-17 13:16 ` Textbooks John McCormick 1 sibling, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: adaworks @ 2008-03-16 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw) "Jacob Sparre Andersen" <sparre@nbi.dk> wrote in message news:ygeve3n3yq4.fsf@hugsarin.dmusyd.edu... > Richard Riehle wrote: > >> Ada Distilled includes a complete set of fully-coded programs that >> work. When you use that book, be sure to also download the separate >> file that includes the programs. Then, you can present those >> programs in any order you wish. > > I have tried to use Ada Distilled in a course, but it didn't work out > as well as I had hoped. Mostly because I wasn't teaching experienced > programmers. For inexperienced students, it isn't quite right. > Right. Ada Distilled is not intended for inexperienced programmers. It is directed to those who have quite a bit of experience in solving programming problems, and who will understand the kinds of problems the programs are intended to illustrate. Also, it is light on theory. I have tried to annotate each programming example, including some annotations from the ALRM. I also included an annotated version of Text_IO and some other packages from Annex A. Unlike some Ada programming books, every source code example is a complete program -- compilable and executable. A complaint I once had from some of my students was that some textbooks show a fragment of code and follow with the equivalent of, "The solution is left as an exercise for the student." I tried to avoid that kind of thing. I have received email from people all over the world, including Iran and some other places where we are not on good terms. I even had an invitation to teach Ada in Iran using Ada Distilled, an invitation I politely declined. Instead, I referred them to a friend in the French Ada community who I know to be an excellent instructor. I never received word on whether that training took place, and I don't need to know. He did not know I recommended him. Meanwhile, I have made a little bit of progress with the new version. I added examples with distinguished receiver notation and a few smaller items. I'll try to get it revised suficiently for posting to the AdaIC web site this year. Many thanks to all of those who have been so generous in their comments, advice and suggestions. You are always welcome to send other suggestions to me that might improve the overall benefit of the book. Richard Riehle ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks 2008-03-16 7:38 ` Textbooks Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-16 19:51 ` Textbooks adaworks @ 2008-03-17 13:16 ` John McCormick 1 sibling, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: John McCormick @ 2008-03-17 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw) For novice programmers have a look at my CS1 and CS2 books: "Programming and Problem Solving with Ada" by Dale, Weems, and McCormick. Jones and Bartlett, 2000. ISBN 0-7637-0792-9. "Ada Plus Data Structures" by Dale and McCormick. Jones and Bartlett, 2007. ISBN 0-7637-3794-1. John McCormick On Mar 16, 2:38 am, Jacob Sparre Andersen <spa...@nbi.dk> wrote: > I have tried to use Ada Distilled in a course, but it didn't work out > as well as I had hoped. Mostly because I wasn't teaching experienced > programmers. For inexperienced students, it isn't quite right. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Textbooks (Was: Decline?) 2008-03-14 9:30 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-14 11:39 ` Peter C. Chapin @ 2008-03-22 16:11 ` stefan-lucks 1 sibling, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: stefan-lucks @ 2008-03-22 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote: > How does Burns' and Wellings' "Concurrent and Real-Time Programming in > Ada" compare to "Programming in Ada 2005" as a textbook? Burns' and Wellings' book is a great textbook about Real-Time programming, for readers/students who already know Ada. It is not a good introduction into programming in Ada. So long Stefan Lucks -- ------ Stefan Lucks -- Bauhaus-University Weimar -- Germany ------ Stefan dot Lucks at uni minus weimar dot de ------ I love the taste of Cryptanalysis in the morning! ------ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv 2008-03-12 15:23 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-12 15:25 ` Decline? Thomas @ 2008-03-12 18:02 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov 2 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Dmitry A. Kazakov @ 2008-03-12 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:00:36 -0700 (PDT), gpriv@axonx.com wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:44 am, Thomas <tho...@kenshi.dk> wrote: >> Today I stumbled on this fairly old (2003) paper on the merits (or lack >> of!) of Ada. >> >> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/pub/documents/03.reports/pdf/03tn021.pdf >> >> As I'm a complete beginner in Ada, I have no way of knowing if this >> paper is spot on, or way off. >> >> It doesn't really matter very much to me, as I'm just learnig Ada for >> fun (and so far I'm having lots of fun!), but should I ever decide to >> use it for any "real" projects, it's of course worth considering if the >> author, Jim Smith, is right in his bleak conclusion: >> >> ----- >> Program managers considering the technical and programmatic risks of >> incorporating specific programming languages in software-intensive >> systems could reasonably -conclude that Ada is a programming language >> with a dubious or nonexistent future. >> ----- I doubt that they consider anything is a rational way... I cannot remember a case when language choice was a subject of a serious (rational) consideration. >> Sounds awfully dark and gloomy eh? Yep, it has been sounded that way since 90s, almost 20 years, how distressing... (:-)) >> So, what's your take on this? Is Ada still an important player? Did Ada >> 2005 change anything? I don't think so. Ada 2005 brought mainly cosmetic changes, and the language technical merits is not an issue anyway. >> Is all well and good in the Ada world, and Jim >> Smith is simply blowing smoke out of his blowhole? It is difficult to say. IMO Ada world is too fragmented. > If popularity is the major criteria to choose the language we all > should use VB. Popularity is a measure of the language choices already made. ... I guess that the subject of an economical/sociological analysis is not language recommendation, but merely a description of what's going on. These are different things. Ada could be a better choice, but VB is chosen. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 13:44 Decline? Thomas 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv @ 2008-03-12 19:24 ` Jeffrey R. Carter 2008-03-13 9:01 ` Decline? Jerry 2008-03-15 23:18 ` Decline? adaworks 3 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey R. Carter @ 2008-03-12 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Thomas wrote: > Today I stumbled on this fairly old (2003) paper on the merits (or lack > of!) of Ada. > > http://www.sei.cmu.edu/pub/documents/03.reports/pdf/03tn021.pdf FUD. The safety-critical sector is not likely to abandon Ada any time soon. -- Jeff Carter "I fart in your general direction." Monty Python & the Holy Grail 05 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 13:44 Decline? Thomas 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv 2008-03-12 19:24 ` Decline? Jeffrey R. Carter @ 2008-03-13 9:01 ` Jerry 2008-03-15 23:18 ` Decline? adaworks 3 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: Jerry @ 2008-03-13 9:01 UTC (permalink / raw) Ada ignorance pops up in unexpected places. I know a guy who is a friend of a friend who is in his early 50s and has worked for Honeywell for at least 20 years. This particular part of Honeywell is virtually a division of Boeing. He manages a project to send non- flight data from the 787 while it is parked at a gate. I asked what language they were using and he said C. I asked if any Ada was involved. His answer: "Ada is obsolete." Jerry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
* Re: Decline? 2008-03-12 13:44 Decline? Thomas ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2008-03-13 9:01 ` Decline? Jerry @ 2008-03-15 23:18 ` adaworks 3 siblings, 0 replies; 43+ messages in thread From: adaworks @ 2008-03-15 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw) "Thomas" <thomas@kenshi.dk> wrote in message news:47d7de50$0$89175$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk... > Today I stumbled on this fairly old (2003) paper on the merits (or lack of!) > of Ada. > > http://www.sei.cmu.edu/pub/documents/03.reports/pdf/03tn021.pdf > Any paper that relies so heavily on input from Reifer is, in my opinon, suspect. He is a turncoat, once an AJPO Director and pretender to be an advocate of Ada who, upon leaving his position in AJPO, turned on the entire Ada intiative and began deprectating it. People who knew of his former AJPO role took his ill-considered advice and this did as much to damage the progress of Ada and its acceptability as anyone. I have stopped placing credence in anything he writes. The paper is a few years old. New initiatives have been on-going. Note that it continues to compliment Ada on its being a more effective alternative than other languages. Ada is still a superior technology over C++, Java, and most other languages. It is not popular for a lot of reasons, some of which go back to the inflexibility of the Ada 83 model. With Ada 95 and Ada2005, it surpasses, as a language, those alternatives. The place where Ada needs improvement is, more and improved libraries to support continuing ideas in software development (not a need for language improvement), better community awareness of its benefits, and a more effective campaign to present its successes. Richard Riehle ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 43+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-03-22 16:11 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 43+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-03-12 13:44 Decline? Thomas 2008-03-12 15:00 ` Decline? gpriv 2008-03-12 15:23 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-12 15:25 ` Decline? Thomas 2008-03-13 0:42 ` Decline? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 6:34 ` Decline? Thomas 2008-03-13 10:08 ` Decline? VilleWitt 2008-03-13 10:28 ` Upsurge? (was: Decline?) Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 12:04 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-13 12:13 ` Upsurge? Alex R. Mosteo 2008-03-14 14:45 ` Upsurge? Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-14 15:26 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-15 11:41 ` Ada i Danmark (Was: Upsurge?) Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-15 16:22 ` Thomas 2008-03-15 21:19 ` Ada i Danmark Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-17 12:09 ` Upsurge? Poul-Erik Andreasen 2008-03-17 14:58 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-17 14:35 ` Ada UK, was: Upsurge? Simon Clubley 2008-03-18 11:29 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-18 12:11 ` Dirk Craeynest 2008-03-15 7:39 ` Upsurge? Stephen Leake 2008-03-20 5:51 ` Upsurge? DScott 2008-03-20 8:21 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-20 20:06 ` Upsurge? DScott 2008-03-21 9:44 ` Upsurge? Thomas 2008-03-13 18:00 ` Decline? Gene 2008-03-13 19:50 ` Decline? Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-14 16:29 ` Decline? Eric Hughes 2008-03-14 1:46 ` Decline? Randy Brukardt 2008-03-14 7:57 ` Decline? Stefan.Lucks 2008-03-14 9:30 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-14 11:39 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-14 13:56 ` Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-15 23:38 ` adaworks 2008-03-16 0:25 ` Peter C. Chapin 2008-03-16 7:38 ` Textbooks Jacob Sparre Andersen 2008-03-16 19:51 ` Textbooks adaworks 2008-03-17 13:16 ` Textbooks John McCormick 2008-03-22 16:11 ` Textbooks (Was: Decline?) stefan-lucks 2008-03-12 18:02 ` Decline? Dmitry A. Kazakov 2008-03-12 19:24 ` Decline? Jeffrey R. Carter 2008-03-13 9:01 ` Decline? Jerry 2008-03-15 23:18 ` Decline? adaworks
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