Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[digitalkevlar]

I'm a high-assurance engineer/researcher who mainly evangelizes the use of proven methods, tools, etc in proprietary and FOSS systems. I've promoted Ada long time (esp Barnes' Safe and Secure book) but I don't use it myself so I need help answering something. Inspired by Cyclone language and linear types, the Rust language has pulled off a rare feat in using the ownership and type system (esp affine types) to eliminate temporal errors that come from mismanaging references. That plus two "traits" eliminates race conditions, too. This is not in static code or something with heavy restrictions on what the code can do. Their thriving community is coding about everything you can think of from desktop (eg Redox OS) to servers (eg TrustDNS) to embedded (eg Tock OS). Here's a description of their memory-safety scheme:

https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/references-and-borrowing.html

Here's the Cyclone page for people just curious where it came from or on safe languages in general:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_(programming_language)

So, with Rust's approach, they get memory safety even for *dynamic or concurrent use* of memory at compile time with no overhead, runtime checks, GC, etc. Whereas, the last thing I read on Ada showed it has a few tricks but many dynamic uses resort to unsafe deallocations at some point. Other people were suggesting reference counting or a GC leading me to further think it lacks this ability of Rust. So, my question is, does Ada 2012 currently have Rust's capability to enforce both temporal, memory safety and immunity to race conditions? I'm really focusing on an equivalent to the borrow-checker in Rust, though. If it doesn't have an equivalent, is there anyone working on adding it to Ada esp at AdaCore? What Ada/SPARK have already + memory safety for dynamic code would be an awesome combination that would put Rust in distant second. I may be misunderstanding Ada's capabilities, though, so I figure I ask the experts first. Thanks ahead of time.

Nick P.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Jeffrey R. Carter]

On 05/13/2017 10:33 PM, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:
>
> So, with Rust's approach, they get memory safety even for *dynamic or
> concurrent use* of memory at compile time with no overhead, runtime checks,
> GC, etc. Whereas, the last thing I read on Ada showed it has a few tricks but
> many dynamic uses resort to unsafe deallocations at some point. Other people
> were suggesting reference counting or a GC leading me to further think it
> lacks this ability of Rust. So, my question is, does Ada 2012 currently have
> Rust's capability to enforce both temporal, memory safety and immunity to
> race conditions? I'm really focusing on an equivalent to the borrow-checker
> in Rust, though. If it doesn't have an equivalent, is there anyone working on
> adding it to Ada esp at AdaCore? What Ada/SPARK have already + memory safety
> for dynamic code would be an awesome combination that would put Rust in
> distant second. I may be misunderstanding Ada's capabilities, though, so I
> figure I ask the experts first. Thanks ahead of time.

This looks sort of like Ada's accessibility levels and accessibility rules, from 
ARM 3.10.2, though as it says there, "In most cases, accessibility is enforced 
at compile time by Legality Rules. Run-time accessibility checks are also used, 
since the Legality Rules do not cover certain cases involving access parameters 
and generic packages."

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Well, a gala day is enough for me. I don't think
I can handle any more."
Duck Soup
93

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Robert Eachus]

I'm going to try to avoid getting into a long discussion here.  The part of Rust referenced is similar to Ada without tasking. As Jeffery Carter points out, most of the time Ada scope rules deal with this at compile time.  There are some cases that require run-time checking, and most programmers consider code that needs run-time checking as a bug.  (In SPARK, it is. ;-)

As for concurrency of the type we have been discussing in another thread, it is at a very low level, and should usually only come up in hard real-time code.  If you have time limits in milliseconds or less, just using the Ada thread safe versions of data structures are not well defined enough.  What we are/were discussing was code that is lock free, and where synchronization will cause one CPU core to stall (usually for just much less than a microsecond.) until the data is available, rather than a sleep-state or task switch.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Niklas Holsti]

On 17-05-14 00:19 , Jeffrey R. Carter wrote:
> On 05/13/2017 10:33 PM, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> So, with Rust's approach, they get memory safety even for *dynamic or
>> concurrent use* of memory at compile time with no overhead, runtime
>> checks,
>> GC, etc. Whereas, the last thing I read on Ada showed it has a few
>> tricks but
>> many dynamic uses resort to unsafe deallocations at some point. Other
>> people
>> were suggesting reference counting or a GC leading me to further think it
>> lacks this ability of Rust. So, my question is, does Ada 2012
>> currently have
>> Rust's capability to enforce both temporal, memory safety and immunity to
>> race conditions? I'm really focusing on an equivalent to the
>> borrow-checker
>> in Rust, though. If it doesn't have an equivalent, is there anyone
>> working on
>> adding it to Ada esp at AdaCore? What Ada/SPARK have already + memory
>> safety
>> for dynamic code would be an awesome combination that would put Rust in
>> distant second. I may be misunderstanding Ada's capabilities, though,
>> so I
>> figure I ask the experts first. Thanks ahead of time.
>
> This looks sort of like Ada's accessibility levels and accessibility
> rules, from ARM 3.10.2, though as it says there, "In most cases,
> accessibility is enforced at compile time by Legality Rules. Run-time
> accessibility checks are also used, since the Legality Rules do not
> cover certain cases involving access parameters and generic packages."

I agree that Ada accessibility rules are related to Rust's scoped 
lifetimes, but my impression (after a brief read of the Rust 
"borrow-checker" material) is that the Rust scheme goes a lot further 
than what is today standard in Ada. For example, AIUI Rust makes it 
impossible to try to dereference a null pointer, and Rust also 
completely prevents dangling references, even when dynamically allocated 
objects are deallocated.

In a multi-threaded program, again AIUI, Rust statically prevents 
concurrent writes from different threads to the same variable. That is 
"legal" in Ada, but (as discussed in a concurrent thread on "Portable 
memory barriers") Ada has unchecked rules on when such access is 
non-erroneous.

AIUI the Rust scheme is based on (a) compile-time tracking of the set of 
references that refer to a given object, as well as the kind of access 
(read-only, or read-and-write) that each reference allows, and (b) 
wrapping all possibly-null references into "Optional" types (similar to 
Ada's variant records) to hide the "null" values.

It is not clear to me if these Rust advantages bring with them some 
restrictions on the kinds of data structures that a Rust program can 
use, or require some Rust-specific idioms for transforming traditional 
reference-heavy data structures (for example graphs) into Rust form.

I hope "someone" will make an in-depth study of how the advantages of 
the Rust scheme could be imported into Ada. I'm afraid it may be rather 
hard to do, as Rust references are so different from Ada's access values.

-- 
Niklas Holsti
Tidorum Ltd
niklas holsti tidorum fi
       .      @       .

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[digitalkevlar]

@ Robert Eachus

"There are some cases that require run-time checking, and most programmers consider code that needs run-time checking as a bug"

I can see why they'd avoid such constructions if their tooling couldn't prove them safe. If another tool can, though, then I'm thinking it's a bug in Ada in that Ada's model or tools can't handle that analysis at compile-time. Something worth fixing with R&D. That's why I'm trying to assess what Ada can do currently in this area. Several other languages knock this problem out at compile time. They're functional, logical, and imperative. So, I know it is feasible in general case.

@ All

Niklas Holsti's post shows he understands what capability I'm describing. Rust code can be shown free of double-free's and dangling-pointers at *compile-time* with *no runtime checks or GC*. It does it with just a few simple rules. Here's the simplest, shortest description I could find to save you all time:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36136201/how-does-rust-guarantee-memory-safety-and-prevent-segfaults

Those are combined with "traits"... or something else in language... to allow race-free concurrency. Instead of mandating one model for language, various models of concurrency are defined in libraries to let you use model easiest for your problem. Language's ownership model & borrow-checker ensures they're all memory-safe and race-free along with any code using them. So, you get these guarantees even in multi-threaded code doing many allocations and de-allocations of memory dynamically. New developers do have a hard time fighting with the borrow-checker early on. My meta-analysis of their comments indicates much of it is intrinsic to safely handling ownership and borrowing of references that C and GC'd languages didn't teach them. The tool just enforces rules (i.e. affine types) known to work. Learning curve is about 1-2 months of practice until they say borrow-checker rarely has problems with their code.

So, can someone today use Ada in a straight-forward way to write single- or multi-threaded applications that are, in every use-case, totally immune at compile-time to use-after-free and double-free errors with zero, runtime overhead? Or can it not do that?

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On 2017-05-14 18:46, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:

> Niklas Holsti's post shows he understands what capability I'm 
> describing. Rust code can be shown free of double-free's and 
> dangling-pointers at *compile-time* with *no runtime checks or GC*.
> It does it with just a few simple rules. Here's the simplest,
> shortest description I could find to save you all time: >
 > 
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36136201/how-does-rust-guarantee-memory-safety-and-prevent-segfaults

Helpful would be to have an example where pointers are needed. The 
example provided requires no pointers. So in Ada case, no such problem 
exist at all.

[...]

> So, can someone today use Ada in a straight-forward way to write 
> single- or multi-threaded applications that are, in every use-case, 
> totally immune at compile-time to use-after-free and double-free
> errors with zero, runtime overhead? Or can it not do that?
Without having other examples, the answer is: there is no such problem 
in Ada because arguments of task rendezvous are not pointers.

For multitasking, problems arise when the method of problem 
decomposition requires constructs which are not safe in the sense that 
safety is statically undecidable. Which means that a decidable static 
constraints would simply kill the algorithm.

 From the practical perspective it is usually possible to trade one 
danger for another (lesser, greater, equal), e.g. to exchange deadlock 
for livelock, but not getting rid of it altogether.

Considering the problem of having tasking safe per construction, my 
impression is that constraints are no or very little help. Additional 
methods of decomposition are.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Jeffrey R. Carter]

On 05/14/2017 06:46 PM, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:
>
> So, can someone today use Ada in a straight-forward way to write single- or
> multi-threaded applications that are, in every use-case, totally immune at
> compile-time to use-after-free and double-free errors with zero, runtime
> overhead? Or can it not do that?

Of course this is possible. It's very rare for well designed Ada to need access 
types. An overwhelming majority of applications can be implemented without ever 
writing "access".

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Friends don't let friends program in C++"
Zalman Stern
114

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Niklas Holsti]

On 17-05-14 20:36 , Jeffrey R. Carter wrote:
> On 05/14/2017 06:46 PM, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> So, can someone today use Ada in a straight-forward way to write
>> single- or
>> multi-threaded applications that are, in every use-case, totally
>> immune at
>> compile-time to use-after-free and double-free errors with zero, runtime
>> overhead? Or can it not do that?
>
> Of course this is possible.

Yes... if one does not have to meet stringent resource constraints 
(time, space) on limited HW.

> It's very rare for well designed Ada to need access types.

"Well designed" is of course subjective. The container library has made 
it practical to avoid access types in the application code, but then 
there are other potential run-time problems, such as "tampering" with 
the containers, which require run-time checks (and which are to some 
extent consequences of the use of access types within the container 
library).

> An overwhelming majority of applications can be
> implemented without ever writing "access".

I find it difficult to agree with that "overwhelming", at least if one 
includes the access types used under the covers in the container library.

Even in applications where heap allocation is forbidden, there are 
usually some dynamically allocated resources -- elements of "resource 
pools" such as message buffers -- with the corresponding 
application-defined "reference" data types, and the same problems of 
managing allocations over time. I don't know if Rust's memory-management 
scheme extends to such non-heap "references, however.

-- 
Niklas Holsti
Tidorum Ltd
niklas holsti tidorum fi
       .      @       .

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Simon Wright]

Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> writes:

> The container library has made it practical to avoid access types in
> the application code, but then there are other potential run-time
> problems, such as "tampering" with the containers, which require
> run-time checks (and which are to some extent consequences of the use
> of access types within the container library).

The current (GCC 7) containers allow suppression of tampering checks,
see [1], for performance reasons.

I don't believe that the tampering checks are mainly, if at all, the
consequnece of using access types. Suppose you are iterating over an
ordered map and you change the current element so as to alter its sort
key? Or, for that matter, any other element? Suppose you delete the
element you are currently visiting?

[1] http://www.adacore.com/developers/development-log/NF-74-O426-003-gnat/

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[moy]

[I'm reposting here my answer to your message on ada Reddit.]

In fact, we currently have at AdaCore an intern working with us on the inclusion of Rust-like pointers in SPARK. He has reached a first milestone which was the description of suitable rules to include safe pointers in SPARK, which have convinced the SPARK Language Design Group at AdaCore and Altran UK (the small group working on the evolutions of the SPARK language).

He's now working with us and researchers from Inria team Toccata to give a mathematical semantics to the notions that we're using for these safe pointers: move (on assignment mostly), borrow (on parameter passing for mutable objects) and observe (on parameter passing for immutable objects). We have also started looking at the concrete implementation of these rules in GNATprove (the SPARK analysis tool).

In this work, we don't target everything that the Rust borrow checker does:

- we leave accessibility checking (the lifetime checking in Rust) to the compiler, using existing Ada rules, plus some restrictions in SPARK to avoid the need for dynamic accessibility checks

- we leave nullity checking to proof (a Verification Condition will be generated for dereference of possibly null pointers), with the help here of Ada non-null types that reduce the need for such proofs. Given that pointers are always initialized to null in Ada, there is no need to separately deal with initialization.

- we ignore the problem of memory leaks (which could be tackled later as an extension of the current scheme)

So the main issue that we really address with this work is the issue of non-aliasing. Or rather the issue of problematic interferences, when two names, one of which can be updated, are referring to the same memory location. We're focusing on this issue, because it is the one preventing inclusion of pointers in SPARK, as for formal analysis we rely on the ability to perform modular analysis, where we make assumptions on the absence of problematic interferences.

But since our solution to non-aliasing is based on this Rust-like notion of ownership of pointers, the same solution will also forbid use-after-free or double-free.

This work is ongoing, we will certainly let the community know about our progress after the summer.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sun, 14 May 2017 22:59:55 +0300, Niklas Holsti
<niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> declaimed the following:

>Even in applications where heap allocation is forbidden, there are 
>usually some dynamically allocated resources -- elements of "resource 
>pools" such as message buffers -- with the corresponding 
>application-defined "reference" data types, and the same problems of 
>managing allocations over time. I don't know if Rust's memory-management 
>scheme extends to such non-heap "references, however.

	My last employment system environment came down to allocation only
during the initialization of the application, no allocation permitted once
the application transitioned to "running", an NO DEALLOCATION ALLOWED.

	That left only two potential erroneous situations: duplicating a
reference such that two parts of the code were independently accessing the
same memory, and the converse, "dropping" a reference such that the memory
could no longer be accessed. The latter being the less likely to get out
into the wild, as running out of a buffers from a pool would tend to be
found in testing, given the limited number of buffers available.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Dmitry A. Kazakov]

On 14/05/2017 22:43, Simon Wright wrote:

> I don't believe that the tampering checks are mainly, if at all, the
> consequnece of using access types. Suppose you are iterating over an
> ordered map and you change the current element so as to alter its sort
> key? Or, for that matter, any other element? Suppose you delete the
> element you are currently visiting?

That is an argument against iterators. There is little difference 
between pointer and iterator.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Jeffrey R. Carter]

On 05/14/2017 09:59 PM, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>
> "Well designed" is of course subjective. The container library has made it
> practical to avoid access types in the application code, but then there are
> other potential run-time problems, such as "tampering" with the containers,
> which require run-time checks (and which are to some extent consequences of the
> use of access types within the container library).

I'm pretty sure the "tampering" restrictions in the containers have nothing to 
do with possible implementations (which need not even be in Ada), and everything 
to do with maintaining the integrity of the structures. They're intended to 
ensure that an ordered container doesn't have an element out of order, or a 
hashed container, one with a different hash than its bin.

> I find it difficult to agree with that "overwhelming", at least if one includes
> the access types used under the covers in the container library.

There's nothing about using the containers that requires the user to write 
"access", so clearly they should not be included.

One might want to use 'access to pass a subprogram as an anonymous 
access-to-subprogram parameter of a container operation, but since such things 
can't be assigned and can't be freed, they're not really access types, but 
rather a strange syntax for limited subprogram types.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
66

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Simon Wright]

"Jeffrey R. Carter" <spam.jrcarter.not@spam.not.acm.org> writes:

> On 05/13/2017 10:33 PM, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> So, with Rust's approach, they get memory safety even for *dynamic or
>> concurrent use* of memory at compile time with no overhead, runtime
>> checks, GC, etc. Whereas, the last thing I read on Ada showed it has
>> a few tricks but many dynamic uses resort to unsafe deallocations at
>> some point. Other people were suggesting reference counting or a GC
>> leading me to further think it lacks this ability of Rust. So, my
>> question is, does Ada 2012 currently have Rust's capability to
>> enforce both temporal, memory safety and immunity to race conditions?
>> I'm really focusing on an equivalent to the borrow-checker in Rust,
>> though. If it doesn't have an equivalent, is there anyone working on
>> adding it to Ada esp at AdaCore? What Ada/SPARK have already + memory
>> safety for dynamic code would be an awesome combination that would
>> put Rust in distant second. I may be misunderstanding Ada's
>> capabilities, though, so I figure I ask the experts first. Thanks
>> ahead of time.
>
> This looks sort of like Ada's accessibility levels and accessibility
> rules, from ARM 3.10.2, though as it says there, "In most cases,
> accessibility is enforced at compile time by Legality Rules. Run-time
> accessibility checks are also used, since the Legality Rules do not
> cover certain cases involving access parameters and generic packages."

I was thinking that an alternative subject area might be code like

      procedure Add (Dest : in out Integer; N : Integer)
        with
          Post => Dest = Dest'Old + N;

      procedure Add (Dest : in out Integer; N : Integer)
      is
      begin
         Dest := Dest + N;
      end Add;

      Dest : Integer := 42;

   ...
   
      Add (Dest, Dest);

(where we have alternate paths to the variable Dest); but SPARK is happy
and the runtime check isn't triggered, so I suppose the ARM supports
this (by copy-out?).

Still, the usage shouldn't pass code review, I think.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Jeffrey R. Carter]

On 05/15/2017 09:07 PM, Simon Wright wrote:
>
> I was thinking that an alternative subject area might be code like
>
>       procedure Add (Dest : in out Integer; N : Integer)
>         with
>           Post => Dest = Dest'Old + N;
>
>       procedure Add (Dest : in out Integer; N : Integer)
>       is
>       begin
>          Dest := Dest + N;
>       end Add;
>
>       Dest : Integer := 42;
>
>    ...
>
>       Add (Dest, Dest);
>
> (where we have alternate paths to the variable Dest); but SPARK is happy
> and the runtime check isn't triggered, so I suppose the ARM supports
> this (by copy-out?).

Elementary types are passed by copy, so you don't have any paths to the variable 
Dest inside Add. That's why this is OK. If the type might be by reference, 
though, this can be a problem.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
66

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[digitalkevlar]

Yannick's message about AdaCore project mostly answers my question on top of the other information everyone has contributed. I appreciate the help from everyone that posted in this thread. Lots of interesting details to learn about. :)

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Randy Brukardt]

"Jeffrey R. Carter" <spam.jrcarter.not@spam.not.acm.org> wrote in message 
news:ofa4dh$15p$1@dont-email.me...
> On 05/14/2017 06:46 PM, digitalkevlar@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> So, can someone today use Ada in a straight-forward way to write single- 
>> or
>> multi-threaded applications that are, in every use-case, totally immune 
>> at
>> compile-time to use-after-free and double-free errors with zero, runtime
>> overhead? Or can it not do that?
>
> Of course this is possible. It's very rare for well designed Ada to need 
> access types. An overwhelming majority of applications can be implemented 
> without ever writing "access".

I would suggest that Jeff's answer here should be read to say that 
"well-designed Ada code has no need for dynamic checks". Ada has plenty of 
unsafe constructs (for low-level memory managment, machine access, and the 
like), but one never has to use them. Ada after all is about combining 
safety with capability -- we try to allow everything (including unsafe 
stuff), but try to make it clear what is unsafe so that code review tools 
can determine what issues exist.

In any case, Ada code can be written so that there are no dereference checks 
and no dangling pointers. You obviously lose some capability when one does 
so. Does that matter? Depends on what you are doing.

Static rules (of any sort) are always going to reduce capability, 
*especially* when it comes to multithreaded programs. I find it highly 
unlikely that any sort of static rules would actually work in "every 
use-case". That's been claimed many times in the past, and it has always 
turned out that the claims were *way* overblown. The people making such 
claims often don't understand multithreading well enough. (It's an area, 
like random numbers and probability, that a little knowledge is more 
dangerous than no knowledge.)

I'm also very suspicious of any claims of new static rules simply because 
OOP pretty much forces dynamic checks if one uses references; strong typing 
breaks down for that and everything essentially becomes dynamic. There 
probably aren't any dereference checks, but you end up with dynamic type 
checks instead (substantially worse). Best thing is to avoid references 
altogether (but of course that too reduces capability).

                                  Randy.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Shark8]

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:19:45 PM UTC-6, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> 
> I'm also very suspicious of any claims of new static rules simply because 
> OOP pretty much forces dynamic checks if one uses references; strong typing 
> breaks down for that and everything essentially becomes dynamic. There 
> probably aren't any dereference checks, but you end up with dynamic type 
> checks instead (substantially worse). Best thing is to avoid references 
> altogether (but of course that too reduces capability).
> 
>                                   Randy.

But a lot of those dynamic checks can be eliminated altogether; this paper's 20 years old and shows that up to 87% of indirect [dynamic] calls could be converted to direct [static] calls:
http://dabamirror.sci-hub.io/0907a19f84f6a6fc61cc0416a09a9958/fernndez1995.pdf

Granted, this *IS* at link-time; but a brief look at some of the similar and/or referencing articles gives me the slight [counterintuitive] impression that not everything about OOP need be dynamic. -- It'll take more time and energy to properly delve into the subject than I have at the moment, but some of the results have quite fascinating titles.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Randy Brukardt]

My concern is that one almost always has to use access-to-classwide types in 
an Ada context as it is impossible to do "co-derivation" so that a type and 
its static reference type get derived together. One can use dispatching to 
cover some of the pain, but that of course is dynamic itself and can cause 
other issues. (And the problem is even worse if one uses an abstract handle 
as the containers do, as dispatching no longer is an option.)

Remember that Ada statically binds almost all OOP calls to bring with. The 
problem is that there is no way to derive two related types together, and it 
appears that is impossible in an OOP context. (It could be made to work --  
maybe -- for untagged types.)

                                  Randy.

"Shark8" <onewingedshark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:40fc8c30-08d6-4456-a488-a1b28615953b@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:19:45 PM UTC-6, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>
> I'm also very suspicious of any claims of new static rules simply because
> OOP pretty much forces dynamic checks if one uses references; strong 
> typing
> breaks down for that and everything essentially becomes dynamic. There
> probably aren't any dereference checks, but you end up with dynamic type
> checks instead (substantially worse). Best thing is to avoid references
> altogether (but of course that too reduces capability).
>
>                                   Randy.

But a lot of those dynamic checks can be eliminated altogether; this paper's 
20 years old and shows that up to 87% of indirect [dynamic] calls could be 
converted to direct [static] calls:
http://dabamirror.sci-hub.io/0907a19f84f6a6fc61cc0416a09a9958/fernndez1995.pdf

Granted, this *IS* at link-time; but a brief look at some of the similar 
and/or referencing articles gives me the slight [counterintuitive] 
impression that not everything about OOP need be dynamic. -- It'll take more 
time and energy to properly delve into the subject than I have at the 
moment, but some of the results have quite fascinating titles. 

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[Shark8]

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 3:36:55 PM UTC-6, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> My concern is that one almost always has to use access-to-classwide types in 
> an Ada context as it is impossible to do "co-derivation" so that a type and 
> its static reference type get derived together. One can use dispatching to 
> cover some of the pain, but that of course is dynamic itself and can cause 
> other issues. (And the problem is even worse if one uses an abstract handle 
> as the containers do, as dispatching no longer is an option.)

Which is why we have access parameters in read/write/input/output as well as the generic-dispatching constructor, right? -- That's one of the biggest pain-points I'm having with SPARK: I want to be able to use stream-attributes AND have verification!

While the mode-specification in Ada is pretty great (describing data-flow rather than mechanics) it does lead to a pretty painful problem w/ classwide parameters: combined with how you constrained values/type-passing works you can't have a 
Procedure Visitor( Item : in out Node'Class ) is
-- On some condition replace Item with value of Make_More_Specific_Node( Item )

and instead have to have a 
Procedure Visitor( Item : in out access Node'Class ) is
-- On some condition replace Item.all with value of Make_More_Specific_Node( Item )

It's really quite irritating (and IMO disappointing) that "access" was added as a mode-indicator/-modifier.

Re: Rust's temporal safety for Ada/SPARK

[moy]

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:07:49 PM UTC+2, Simon Wright wrote:
> (where we have alternate paths to the variable Dest); but SPARK is happy
> and the runtime check isn't triggered, so I suppose the ARM supports
> this (by copy-out?).

Hi Simon, SPARK is happy because there is no problematic aliasing with the code you posted. Since N is of scalar type, it is always passed by copy. Since N is also of mode 'in', it is only copied on entry, not copied back. So the contract you wrote on Add is still valid even if you call it on Dest and Dest. But the postcondition only holds upon returning from Add, not after the call statement. Between these two, the value returned in parameter Dest is copied back in local variable Dest. This is how both the GNAT compiler and the GNATprove analyzer understand it.

> Still, the usage shouldn't pass code review, I think.

I guess it depends on the meaning of the code. If the use of the same value in different parameters is confusing, indeed not. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with that code.