* Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? @ 2002-05-03 3:11 Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-03 8:57 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-04 16:20 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-03 3:11 UTC (permalink / raw) Is it posible? IF so what are the steps to do so? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-03 3:11 Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-03 8:57 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-04 16:12 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-09 16:14 ` David Brown 2002-05-04 16:20 ` Preben Randhol 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-03 8:57 UTC (permalink / raw) "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3CD1FFC5.4050607@qwest.net>... > Is it posible? > IF so what are the steps to do so? You will have to build a GCC cross-compiler. If you don't already know how to do that, then probably this would be a pretty steep learning curve. First you need to just study the basic GCC build process and build GNAT from sources. The Windows target would make this particularly tricky, since Windows is maximally uncooperative for such tasks. I have not ever heard of anyone wanting to do a cross with windows as a target before, so I doubt there is any prior experience here, especially from FreeBSD *to* Win32. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-03 8:57 ` Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-04 16:12 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-09 16:14 ` David Brown 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-04 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar wrote: > "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3CD1FFC5.4050607@qwest.net>... > >>Is it posible? >>IF so what are the steps to do so? >> > > You will have to build a GCC cross-compiler. If you don't already know how > to do that, then probably this would be a pretty steep learning curve. > First you need to just study the basic GCC build process and build > GNAT from sources. The Windows target would make this particularly > tricky, since Windows is maximally uncooperative for such tasks. I have > not ever heard of anyone wanting to do a cross with windows as a target > before, so I doubt there is any prior experience here, especially from > FreeBSD *to* Win32. > Would It be better to use jgnat for cross platform devlopement? I am new to Ada and I am looking forward to learning to develope mission critical code. Most of my code are done with interpreters (forth,tcl and a little python) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-03 8:57 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-04 16:12 ` Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-09 16:14 ` David Brown 2002-05-11 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: David Brown @ 2002-05-09 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar <dewar@gnat.com> wrote: > I have > not ever heard of anyone wanting to do a cross with windows as a target > before, so I doubt there is any prior experience here, especially from > FreeBSD *to* Win32. Although I've never had the privilege/curse of having to develop software for Win32, I think that if I ever did, I would seriously consider developing on a different platform and targeting Win32. I find Win32 one of the most uncooperative development platforms I have ever used. Of course, its uncooperativeness also would make it a very difficult target to cross compile to. This issue may come up at some point, since I may consider porting Adump to win32 at some point. I would probably just compile it natively, and use network shares so I can edit on my desktop machine. But, much of the world seems to disagree with me. Oh well. David Brown ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-09 16:14 ` David Brown @ 2002-05-11 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-11 18:17 ` Pascal Obry 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-11 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) David Brown wrote: > Robert Dewar <dewar@gnat.com> wrote: > > >> I have >>not ever heard of anyone wanting to do a cross with windows as a target >>before, so I doubt there is any prior experience here, especially from >>FreeBSD *to* Win32. >> > > Although I've never had the privilege/curse of having to develop > software for Win32, I think that if I ever did, I would seriously > consider developing on a different platform and targeting Win32. I find > Win32 one of the most uncooperative development platforms I have ever > used. > > Of course, its uncooperativeness also would make it a very difficult > target to cross compile to. > > This issue may come up at some point, since I may consider porting Adump > to win32 at some point. I would probably just compile it natively, and > use network shares so I can edit on my desktop machine. > > But, much of the world seems to disagree with me. Oh well. > > David Brown > I my machine has not had windows on it for several years. unfortunatly I need to write program for work. (windows) Well, Maybe I should Develope on my machine and compile it on the work machine. I just don't want windows to crash during a long compile. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-11 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-11 18:17 ` Pascal Obry 2002-05-11 20:21 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2002-05-11 18:17 UTC (permalink / raw) "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> writes: > I my machine has not had windows on it for several years. unfortunatly I need > to write program for work. (windows) Well, Maybe I should Develope on my > machine and compile it on the work machine. I just don't want windows to > crash during a long compile. Please don't be so hard with Windows. I have yet to find my XP box to crash... And yes I'm pushing it a lot :) Windows 2000/XP are very stable. Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member --| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE --|------------------------------------------------------ --| http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" --| --| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-11 18:17 ` Pascal Obry @ 2002-05-11 20:21 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-12 1:09 ` DPH 2002-05-12 8:30 ` [OT] " Pascal Obry 0 siblings, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-11 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw) On 11 May 2002 20:17:08 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote: > Please don't be so hard with Windows. I have yet to find my XP box to > crash... And yes I'm pushing it a lot :) Windows 2000/XP are very stable. But oh so cumbersome compared to Linux when doing development. In windows you *need* an IDE, in Linux you can do most of these things in other ways. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-11 20:21 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-12 1:09 ` DPH 2002-05-12 9:50 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-12 8:30 ` [OT] " Pascal Obry 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: DPH @ 2002-05-12 1:09 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 11 May 2002 20:21:06 +0000 (UTC), Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote: >On 11 May 2002 20:17:08 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote: >> Please don't be so hard with Windows. I have yet to find my XP box to >> crash... And yes I'm pushing it a lot :) Windows 2000/XP are very stable. > >But oh so cumbersome compared to Linux when doing development. In >windows you *need* an IDE, in Linux you can do most of these things in >other ways. > >Preben Not to be argumentative, but please describe. Just take debugging for example. In Borland C++, I can make the cursor hover over most any variable on the screen and get the value given to me in a popup tooltip. I find that very convenient and can't see how a command line interface (or anything else besides an IDE or other graphical interface, although you may have some mechanism I'm not familiar with) would be as convenient. In Borland, I can bring up the whole array of breakpoints I have, and, in a window, see how they are configured - whether they are instantaneous breaks or count passes or wait for conditions and if so be able to view the conditions. How is such convenience accomplished without an IDE? I've thought about going to Linux for reasons having to do with Bill building in copy protection to things like Windows Media Player and trying to keep it all hush-hush (but hush-hush doesn't work with the internet around! <G>) and just generally being too damn friendly with those that want to make it possible for record companies to be able to force you to listen to a song on just 1 machine, not be able to rip it to a CD and take it in the car, etc. Linux looks like a way around that. And my Win 98 will do it now, and I'm not buying W2K or XP or etc. that are likely to be used against me. So... there's linux, which is built for users, not for record companies. So, anyway, I've thought of going to Linux as described, but have dreaded it as a step backward with having to deal with a command line again (I hate that...) Of course, now there's Borland Builder 6 for Linux, and GPS is coming for Ada. Wheee... Dave Head ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-12 1:09 ` DPH @ 2002-05-12 9:50 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-13 12:56 ` Dave Head 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-12 9:50 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 11 May 2002 21:09:12 -0400, DPH wrote: > > Not to be argumentative, but please describe. Just take debugging for > example. > [snipped description of debugging in Borland C++] GVD -- http://libre.act-europe.fr/gvd/ I didn't say that an IDE can't have advantages, I said that on Windows you feel very desperate if you don't have an IDE as you lack a lot of very nice tools. You can of course use cygwin in Windows, but at least my experience with this is that it is more cumbersome than working in Linux directly. There wouldn't be a drive to make IDE's for Linux if there are no advantages. As you can see here: http://freshmeat.net/browse/65/?topic_id=65 There are 112 tries to develop some sort of IDEs. > So, anyway, I've thought of going to Linux as described, but have > dreaded it as a step backward with having to deal with a command line > again (I hate that...) Of course, now there's Borland Builder 6 for > Linux, and GPS is coming for Ada. Wheee... You don't have to use the command line so much as you think. Here is a screenshot of my Vim editor with a simple IDE that utilises a these command line arguments for you. http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/Ada95/vim-with-IDE.png I can use this in windows too, but then I would have to install things like cygwin to get it to work. I recommend that you install Linux (Choose Debian as this is much easier distribution to work with as soon as you have gotten it installed. It is a bit harder to install than other distributions though) on a machine and try it a bit while you still use Windows to get used to it. Preben -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-12 9:50 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-13 12:56 ` Dave Head 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Dave Head @ 2002-05-13 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi Preben, Thanks for the heads-up on these. I have a couple options for Linux which I will likely try one eventually (I'm way too busy building a ham radio station right now...K8DH - digging holes for tower foundations, installing my gee-whiz new radio in the car (worked on that most all weekend - still not done...)) One is an old pentium computer. Another is a computer that is about to be a victim of the Navy's NMCI effort to get outside contractors maintaining all the PCs. This would be EDS, and they want to _rent_ us computers - and we have the opportunity to buy our old machines from them because its in the contract that they become EDS property. Since this is a 1000 mhz pentium, that I may be able to get for $500, I probably will. Its got win2K / ntfs, etc. It may be a candidate for a memory upgrade to about a Gig, bigger disk, and VM-Ware and dual OS use via the VMware if I take advantage of this. Dunno why they're being so nice to us, except it may be that its more profitable than trying to recycle these computers... Dave Head "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message news:slrnadseo3.120.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no... > On Sat, 11 May 2002 21:09:12 -0400, DPH wrote: > > > > Not to be argumentative, but please describe. Just take debugging for > > example. > > > [snipped description of debugging in Borland C++] > > GVD -- http://libre.act-europe.fr/gvd/ > > I didn't say that an IDE can't have advantages, I said that on Windows > you feel very desperate if you don't have an IDE as you lack a lot of > very nice tools. You can of course use cygwin in Windows, but at least > my experience with this is that it is more cumbersome than working in > Linux directly. There wouldn't be a drive to make IDE's for Linux if > there are no advantages. > > As you can see here: http://freshmeat.net/browse/65/?topic_id=65 > There are 112 tries to develop some sort of IDEs. > > > So, anyway, I've thought of going to Linux as described, but have > > dreaded it as a step backward with having to deal with a command line > > again (I hate that...) Of course, now there's Borland Builder 6 for > > Linux, and GPS is coming for Ada. Wheee... > > You don't have to use the command line so much as you think. Here is a > screenshot of my Vim editor with a simple IDE that utilises a these > command line arguments for you. > > http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/Ada95/vim-with-IDE.png > > I can use this in windows too, but then I would have to install things > like cygwin to get it to work. > > I recommend that you install Linux (Choose Debian as this is much easier > distribution to work with as soon as you have gotten it installed. It is > a bit harder to install than other distributions though) on a machine > and try it a bit while you still use Windows to get used to it. > > Preben > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-11 20:21 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-12 1:09 ` DPH @ 2002-05-12 8:30 ` Pascal Obry 2002-05-12 9:20 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-13 14:33 ` Ted Dennison 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2002-05-12 8:30 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > On 11 May 2002 20:17:08 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote: > > Please don't be so hard with Windows. I have yet to find my XP box to > > crash... And yes I'm pushing it a lot :) Windows 2000/XP are very stable. > > But oh so cumbersome compared to Linux when doing development. In > windows you *need* an IDE, in Linux you can do most of these things in > other ways. This is just plain false. I do deveopment in both Linux and Windows (lot more on Windows than on Linux) and I have (as other peoples have said here too) the exact same environment. EMACS, GNAT, Cygwin, cvs, VM, GNUS... I would say that it is a easier to develop on Linux, but nothing seems so cumbersome on Windows. It was cumbersome on Win9x with old version of Cygwin because the CRLF handling was not properly done. These days this is not true and again Windows 2000/XP are very reliable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not paid by Microsoft :), just that I find the Windows OS moving to the right direction... And looking at MacOSX I start thinking that this could be the right OS for everything: developement because it is based on BSD -not need for Cygwin-, and office work as the full set of Microsoft Office toolset has been ported. Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member --| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE --|------------------------------------------------------ --| http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" --| --| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-12 8:30 ` [OT] " Pascal Obry @ 2002-05-12 9:20 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-12 10:29 ` Pascal Obry 2002-05-13 14:33 ` Ted Dennison 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-12 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw) On 12 May 2002 10:30:45 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote: > This is just plain false. I do deveopment in both Linux and Windows (lot more > on Windows than on Linux) and I have (as other peoples have said here too) the > exact same environment. EMACS, GNAT, Cygwin, cvs, VM, GNUS... Why do you use EMACS and Cygwin in Windows then? ;-) Not exactly tools in the spirit of Windows. > Don't get me wrong, I'm not paid by Microsoft :), just that I find the Windows > OS moving to the right direction... And looking at MacOSX I start thinking Which direction is that then? Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-12 9:20 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-12 10:29 ` Pascal Obry 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2002-05-12 10:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > On 12 May 2002 10:30:45 +0200, Pascal Obry wrote: > > This is just plain false. I do deveopment in both Linux and Windows (lot > > more on Windows than on Linux) and I have (as other peoples have said here > > too) the exact same environment. EMACS, GNAT, Cygwin, cvs, VM, GNUS... > > Why do you use EMACS and Cygwin in Windows then? ;-) Not exactly tools > in the spirit of Windows. Because I think OS and applications are somehow orthogonal, no ? It is maybe not in the "spirit" of Windows but it works just fine on Windows too. Why not use them ? And this way I have the same environement on Linux and Windows which is good for productivity. Just my 2 cents :) > Which direction is that then? The same box for developement, office work, image/video processing... In my compagny it is common for developers to have 2 computers, one with Linux/UNIX for developement and one for office work (my compagny have made the choice of Microsoft Office and Lotus Notes). There is not Linux version. Some have tried some virtual machine like VMWare but it needs a lot of memory and is not that easy to handle... then MacOSX came... and all this work is possible on the same box! Give it a try. Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member --| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE --|------------------------------------------------------ --| http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" --| --| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-12 8:30 ` [OT] " Pascal Obry 2002-05-12 9:20 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-13 14:33 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-13 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Pascal Obry <p.obry@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<uy9epdayy.fsf_-_@wanadoo.fr>... > Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > This is just plain false. I do deveopment in both Linux and Windows (lot more > on Windows than on Linux) and I have (as other peoples have said here too) the > exact same environment. EMACS, GNAT, Cygwin, cvs, VM, GNUS... Same here. The first thing I do with any new system (Irix, SunOs, HP/UX, Windows, etc.) is install emacs, gcc, gnat, and co. If anything, on Windows it is *easier*, since prebuilt binaries are available. It doesn't quite beat Linux, since those all come with Linux to start. But then, I can't play Morrowind on Linux either. :-) > OS moving to the right direction... And looking at MacOSX I start thinking > that this could be the right OS for everything: developement because it is > based on BSD -not need for Cygwin-, and office work as the full set of > Microsoft Office toolset has been ported. I can live w/o MSOffice. In fact, I am living without it at home just fine (proud StarOffice user here). OSX is still not cutting the mustard where games are concerned though. As long as Windows is *the* gaming OS, I'm a Windows user. :-( -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-13 14:33 ` Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross 2002-05-14 8:14 ` Preben Randhol ` (4 more replies) 0 siblings, 5 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: James Ross @ 2002-05-14 3:51 UTC (permalink / raw) On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: >I can live w/o MSOffice. Most people can't :( Even if assuming you have seamless networking between your home and work, you still have to deal with file conversion (and isn't that a faulty process?). >As long as Windows is *the* >gaming OS, I'm a Windows user. :-( Windows is the best consumer available OS period. And it will remain so for a long time. The only one that ever came close was Apple years ago� but Jobs screwed it up by pushing the Mac instead of the II series. Other mentionables that had their chance was IBM, Commodore, & Tandy. My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of lack of standards and ease of use. The mentality that the primary interface is the command line and the only way to really install something is to ./configure will prevail on Linux for years to come. JR ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross @ 2002-05-14 8:14 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 15:04 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-14 10:02 ` Ingo Marks ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 8:14 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 14 May 2002 03:51:05 GMT, James Ross wrote: > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of > lack of standards and ease of use. The mentality that the primary > interface is the command line and the only way to really install > something is to ./configure will prevail on Linux for years to come. Which says more about your lack of knowledge and not the current state nor future. It is far easier to install software on Debian Linux than any Windows version for instance. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 8:14 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 15:04 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-14 15:38 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-14 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > On Tue, 14 May 2002 03:51:05 GMT, James Ross wrote: > > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of > > lack of standards and ease of use. The mentality that the primary > > interface is the command line and the only way to really install > > something is to ./configure will prevail on Linux for years to come. > > Which says more about your lack of knowledge and not the current state > nor future. It is far easier to install software on Debian Linux than > any Windows version for instance. You'll have to back that up. Here's an example from my recent experience: To install GNAT 3.14p: Debian Linux: start dselect (I _think_ that's the name; I don't have my Debian system handy). type / gnat oops; only gnat 3.12 is available. Use Emacs ftp to get gnat-3.14p source from a mirror tar zxf gnat-3.14p cd gnat 3.14p ./do-config ./run-config make make install done (finally) On Windows: Use Emacs or GUI ftp client to get gnat-3.14p.exe from a mirror In Windows Explorer, double click on it follow install wizard instructions. about 4 clicks later: done Now, if I had picked an app for which Debian has a package avialable, say Emacs, the two are about the same; one click each. Still have to remember the command 'dselect' in Debian, though. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 15:04 ` Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-14 15:38 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 16:55 ` Stephen Leake 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw) On 14 May 2002 11:04:46 -0400, Stephen Leake wrote: > > You'll have to back that up. Here's an example from my recent > experience: I don't take on me other peoples lack of knowledge about Debian ;-) (se below) > To install GNAT 3.14p: > > Debian Linux: > [snipped description] NO NO NO NO NO completely wrong! (besides why didn't you get the: gnat-3.14p-i686-pc-linux-gnu-bin.tar.gz when you clearly too the binary version in windows?) Look at: http://packages.debian.org/testing/devel/gnat.html Gnat 3.14p is in testing. You simply install it from there. The point is that you have only set up Debian stable and Debian stable is excatly that; stable from when it was realeased. Only security issues warrents an upgrade of a package. Debian Testing contains the packages that will go into the next Debian Stable and is being updated until there is a distribution freeze. And Debian unstable contains all bleeding edge pacakges. I suggest you read a bit about this. If you add testing to your apt source.list and then you do: apt-get update apt-get istall gnat and it will install 3.14p and make sure that your other libraries also are updated (ex. gktada) > On Windows: > [snipped description] > Now, if I had picked an app for which Debian has a package avialable, > say Emacs, the two are about the same; one click each. Still have to > remember the command 'dselect' in Debian, though. Absolutely not true. If you want to update your debian system you simply do: apt-get update apt-get upgrade and then all packages that have been updated will be installed. Besides the integrety of your entire system will be intact as apt-get will also install all packages that this package needs. This you do not have in Windows at all. apt-get install emacs will not only install emacs, but will also install all packages that emacs is *dependant* on. This will not happen in Windows. When the current Debian Testing (named Woody) becomes stable in a short (hopefully) time, then all you need to do is: apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade to update your entire system without destroying your preferences etc... Now please tell me how simple it is to update from say 98 to XP :-) Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 15:38 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 16:55 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-14 17:28 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 17:57 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-14 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > On 14 May 2002 11:04:46 -0400, Stephen Leake wrote: > > > > You'll have to back that up. Here's an example from my recent > > experience: > > I don't take on me other peoples lack of knowledge about Debian ;-) (se > below) Fair enough. > NO NO NO NO NO completely wrong! (besides why didn't you get the: > gnat-3.14p-i686-pc-linux-gnu-bin.tar.gz when you clearly too the binary > version in windows?) Actually, that _is_ what I did. Sorry! It was 3.15 that I did from source. Still many steps for 3.14p. > Look at: > > http://packages.debian.org/testing/devel/gnat.html Well, I want a _stable_ system, not a _testing_ system. Windows NT is a _stable_ system. > If you add testing to your apt source.list and then you do: > > apt-get update > apt-get istall gnat > > and it will install 3.14p and make sure that your other libraries also > are updated (ex. gktada) I started down that road, and it was the Debian version of "dll hell". _Everything_ needed to be upgraded. I have used 'apt-get'. I prefer "dselect"; it shows a list of what's available (so I don't have to remember the package name either), and offers to delete the downloaded package when done installing. The point here is that this is _not_ trivial. Debian does a good job of trying to keep things tested and consistent, and I _like_ that! But the gnat 3.14p Debian package requires too many "unstable" libraries for my taste. The binary install from ACT was much simpler, just not quite as simple as the Windows version. Neither apt-get nor dselect is as 'user-friendly' as Install Shield when it comes to customizing an installation. Actually, the Windows version has a different problem; it uses the Registry. So I can't have two versions of GNAT installed simultaneously; I need both 3.15a (supported) and 3.14p (public). I've figured out some of the registry swapping required, but I often find myself re-installing one or the other version. I'll stick to Debian stable, thank you! > > On Windows: > > > [snipped description] > > > Now, if I had picked an app for which Debian has a package avialable, > > say Emacs, the two are about the same; one click each. Still have to > > remember the command 'dselect' in Debian, though. > > Absolutely not true. If you want to update your debian system you simply > do: > > apt-get update > apt-get upgrade Ok. So I have to remember "apt-get" instead of "dselect". And I'm _not_ talking about "upgrading the system"; I'm talking about "upgrading one application (Emacs)". So I have to remember what apt-get calls the emacs package. dselect _shows_ me what it is called! > and then all packages that have been updated will be installed. > Besides the integrety of your entire system will be intact as > apt-get will also install all packages that this package needs. Assuming you aren't starting from "stable" and trying to install a "testing" package. If you are, 'apt-get' will get very lost. > This you do not have in Windows at all. This is true. > apt-get install emacs will not only install emacs, but will also > install all packages that emacs is *dependant* on. True > This will not happen in Windows. Hmm. Most Windows install packages I've used offer to install stuff that is missing; usually Direct X version y or Apple Quicktime version z. Or they just install the required DLL themselves, sometimes with bad results. Windows tends to be less "modularized" than Debian, so there are fewer small pieces that might need to be upgraded. Granted there is no standard way to enforce the dependencies, as Debian provides. > When the current Debian Testing (named Woody) becomes stable in a > short (hopefully) time, then all you need to do is: > > apt-get update > apt-get dist-upgrade > > to update your entire system without destroying your preferences etc... I think I'll make a full disk backup first :). > Now please tell me how simple it is to update from say 98 to XP :-) Simple. Make a full disk backup, and buy a new computer :). A bigger point is that I am _not_ a typical computer consumer. We should be comparing notes on how to install Myst, or the latest Quicken upgrade. (What? Those are not available for Linux? oh well, never mind :). -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 16:55 ` Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-14 17:28 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 17:57 ` Preben Randhol 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-14 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw) An important thing to recall is that several years ago the Macintosh raised the bar on ease of installation. Install a new device? Plug it in! Install new software? Insert the disk! Granted, it wasn't always perfect and there were prices to be paid, but it sure made it easy (usually) for the average non-geek to handle. Microsoft started getting things right with the emergence of NT and in its subsequent incarnations. Software installations at least usually involve inserting the disk and saying "yes" to all the install shield options. Is Linux there? I'm not a Linux user, but I followed the prior posts and it sure sounded like "Really, its all very simple. First you have to know the secret handshake, then you've got to recite the proper incantation when the full moon rises, then you've got to slaughter a goat and put it entrails on the keyboard..... What could be more obvious???" It does *not* sound as simple to me as "Insert the disk. Clik on "Yes" until the install shield goes away." ("Simpler", might be "Insert the disk. Wait for it to pop out.", but maybe we're not there yet...) If you can install software on Linux as simply as this, then let me know. But until you can, Linux is going to be hamstrung if it wants to become "Joe Sixpack Consumer Linux". MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com "Stephen Leake" <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote in message news:uptzyu0sy.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov... > > A bigger point is that I am _not_ a typical computer consumer. We > should be comparing notes on how to install Myst, or the latest > Quicken upgrade. (What? Those are not available for Linux? oh well, > never mind :). > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 16:55 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-14 17:28 ` Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-14 17:57 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 20:45 ` Stephen Leake 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw) On 14 May 2002 12:55:09 -0400, Stephen Leake wrote: > Well, I want a _stable_ system, not a _testing_ system. Windows NT is > a _stable_ system. Debian testing is _stable_ now. I've been using it for 1 year. > for my taste. The binary install from ACT was much simpler, just not > quite as simple as the Windows version. Though it may be simple, you must still recompile all your libraries like libgtkada asis etc... > Neither apt-get nor dselect is as 'user-friendly' as Install Shield > when it comes to customizing an installation. Please explain. > I'll stick to Debian stable, thank you! Well Testing will catch up with you in short time. Actually it was sceduled for release 1 May, but was delayed. > Ok. So I have to remember "apt-get" instead of "dselect". And I'm If you have such a bad memory I'm surprised you manage to code in the first place. ;-) I don't buy it. But then use gnome-apt or some other graphical frontend. Sorry but I have dealt with Debian and windows for years now and Debian proves time and time again to be much more easy. When I got my new laptop at work I had a Debian system up and running with *all* packages I had on my desktop system in 55 min and *one* reboot. Installing Windows took 3 hours (mainly due to network driver problems) and then I had to start installing the software which took about 5 hours and I guess about 15-20 reboots. > _not_ talking about "upgrading the system"; I'm talking about > "upgrading one application (Emacs)". So I have to remember what > apt-get calls the emacs package. dselect _shows_ me what it is called! But then you use dselect or gnome-apt. The only thing you need is to tell them to look in the right place for a new version. > I think I'll make a full disk backup first :). You can do that, but I would be more concerned in backing up my data not programs I can download ;-) > A bigger point is that I am _not_ a typical computer consumer. We > should be comparing notes on how to install Myst, or the latest > Quicken upgrade. (What? Those are not available for Linux? oh well, > never mind :). If I had time for games I would choose interactive fiction, but what we should do is make more Ada software. And speaking of this I'll need help porting my app to Windows. ;-) (Porting being basicly how to deal with where to put config files etc... the rest should recompile on a GNAT compiler. But first I have to wait for GtkAda 2.0 and Gtk+ 2.0 binaries) Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 17:57 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 20:45 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-15 3:38 ` Robert R. Beaver 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-14 20:45 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > On 14 May 2002 12:55:09 -0400, Stephen Leake wrote: > > Well, I want a _stable_ system, not a _testing_ system. Windows NT is > > a _stable_ system. > > Debian testing is _stable_ now. I've been using it for 1 year. Well, apparently "the Debian committee", whoever that is, disagrees with you; the name is still "testing"! > > for my taste. The binary install from ACT was much simpler, just > > not quite as simple as the Windows version. > > Though it may be simple, you must still recompile all your libraries > like libgtkada asis etc... True, but irrelevant. Are you implying that 'apt-get install gnat' will also update gtkada? I hope not! > > Neither apt-get nor dselect is as 'user-friendly' as Install > > Shield when it comes to customizing an installation. > > Please explain. Well, when was the last time you used Install Shield? On a good package, it gives you choices about where to install it, which optional sub-packages to install, which language to use, which help file formats to install, etc. Debian apt-get gives no choice for any of these. > > I'll stick to Debian stable, thank you! > > Well Testing will catch up with you in short time. Actually it was > sceduled for release 1 May, but was delayed. Ok, I'll get it when it comes out. > > Ok. So I have to remember "apt-get" instead of "dselect". And I'm > > If you have such a bad memory I'm surprised you manage to code in the > first place. ;-) I don't buy it. But then use gnome-apt or some other > graphical frontend. Ok. That was my point; in Windows, you have a standard graphical front end that makes it fairly easy to find things that you want to install; just look in your "downloads" directory, and select the file you want. If I use command-line 'apt-get', there is no such list. If you had started this by saying "use gnome-apt", rather than by saying "use apt-get", I'd be more sympathetic. > Sorry but I have dealt with Debian and windows for years now and > Debian proves time and time again to be much more easy. I agree; for the work I really want to do, Debian is better. For installing packages like Myst and Quicken, Windows (more precisely Install Shield) is better (and not just because they don't exist for Linux!). > When I got my new laptop at work I had a Debian system up and > running with *all* packages I had on my desktop system in 55 min and > *one* reboot. Installing Windows took 3 hours (mainly due to network > driver problems) and then I had to start installing the software > which took about 5 hours and I guess about 15-20 reboots. Did you end up with the _same_ set of application software on each system? I suspect not! You also got lucky with Debian; there are far more network driver cards supported by Windows than by Debian. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 20:45 ` Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-15 3:38 ` Robert R. Beaver 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-15 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Stephen Leake wrote: > Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> writes: > > >>On 14 May 2002 12:55:09 -0400, Stephen Leake wrote: >> >>>Well, I want a _stable_ system, not a _testing_ system. Windows NT is >>>a _stable_ system. >>> >>Debian testing is _stable_ now. I've been using it for 1 year. >> > > Well, apparently "the Debian committee", whoever that is, disagrees > with you; the name is still "testing"! > > >>>for my taste. The binary install from ACT was much simpler, just >>>not quite as simple as the Windows version. >>> >>Though it may be simple, you must still recompile all your libraries >>like libgtkada asis etc... >> > > True, but irrelevant. Are you implying that 'apt-get install gnat' > will also update gtkada? I hope not! > > >>>Neither apt-get nor dselect is as 'user-friendly' as Install >>>Shield when it comes to customizing an installation. >>> >>Please explain. >> > > Well, when was the last time you used Install Shield? On a good > package, it gives you choices about where to install it, which > optional sub-packages to install, which language to use, which help > file formats to install, etc. > > Debian apt-get gives no choice for any of these. > > >>>I'll stick to Debian stable, thank you! >>> >>Well Testing will catch up with you in short time. Actually it was >>sceduled for release 1 May, but was delayed. >> > > Ok, I'll get it when it comes out. > > >>>Ok. So I have to remember "apt-get" instead of "dselect". And I'm >>> >>If you have such a bad memory I'm surprised you manage to code in the >>first place. ;-) I don't buy it. But then use gnome-apt or some other >>graphical frontend. >> > > Ok. That was my point; in Windows, you have a standard graphical front > end that makes it fairly easy to find things that you want to install; > just look in your "downloads" directory, and select the file you want. > If I use command-line 'apt-get', there is no such list. If you had > started this by saying "use gnome-apt", rather than by saying "use > apt-get", I'd be more sympathetic. > > >>Sorry but I have dealt with Debian and windows for years now and >>Debian proves time and time again to be much more easy. >> > > I agree; for the work I really want to do, Debian is better. For > installing packages like Myst and Quicken, Windows (more precisely > Install Shield) is better (and not just because they don't exist for > Linux!). > > >>When I got my new laptop at work I had a Debian system up and >>running with *all* packages I had on my desktop system in 55 min and >>*one* reboot. Installing Windows took 3 hours (mainly due to network >>driver problems) and then I had to start installing the software >>which took about 5 hours and I guess about 15-20 reboots. >> > > Did you end up with the _same_ set of application software on each > system? I suspect not! > > You also got lucky with Debian; there are far more network driver > cards supported by Windows than by Debian. > > I Didn't mean to turn this news group int in to a OS flame war. I would like to see ithis thread get back on track of the problem of cross compiling. If we can resolve that, then it would benefit UNIX and Windows alike. I will Try to keep my OS BIOS out of the picture. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross 2002-05-14 8:14 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 10:02 ` Ingo Marks 2002-05-14 17:06 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 14:13 ` Robert Dewar ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Ingo Marks @ 2002-05-14 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw) James Ross wrote: > On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > Most people can't :( Even if assuming you have seamless networking > between your home and work, you still have to deal with file > conversion (and isn't that a faulty process?). MS has shot itself into its feet with their new customer-unfriendly License 6.0 which forces them to buy every software upgrade (if they need it or not) raising software costs between 33% and 107%. Gartner and Giga state that about 30% of MS customers are not willing to sign the new license and other 30% don't know yet if they should. Many will switch to Linux and StarOffice. > Windows is the best consumer available OS period. ... until MacOSX came ;-) > lack of standards and ease of use. The mentality that the primary > interface is the command line and the only way to really install > something is to ./configure will prevail on Linux for years to come. > JR That simply isn't true. Current Linux distributions provide precompiled (binary) applications and use nice-looking graphical administration tools which makes program installation a toy, even for beginners. Command shells are _not_ necessary to maintain a Linux system, but in many situations they make your work done much faster than clicking through several menus. Keep in mind that most users buy pre-installed and pre-configured Windows-PCs. IMHO pre-installed and pre-configured Linux-PCs could be the same userfriendly as Windows PCs - even more secure and stable. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 10:02 ` Ingo Marks @ 2002-05-14 17:06 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-14 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw) Ingo Marks <adv@region-nord.de> wrote in message news:<abqnaf$ogc$01$1@news.t-online.com>... > James Ross wrote: > > > On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > > > Most people can't :( Even if assuming you have seamless networking > > between your home and work, you still have to deal with file > > conversion (and isn't that a faulty process?). For the record, I think it was James saying this, not me. -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross 2002-05-14 8:14 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 10:02 ` Ingo Marks @ 2002-05-14 14:13 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-14 15:22 ` Larry Kilgallen 2002-05-14 18:32 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 14:20 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 18:55 ` Darren New 4 siblings, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-14 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) James Ross <rem.jr@rem.webross.com> wrote in message news:<gbu0euoblrr1vmeb21tiarhmv4aqqih7lv@4ax.com>... > On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of > lack of standards and ease of use. Of course when someone makes a claim like this, you never know whether it is informed or not. > The mentality that the primary > interface is the command line and the only way to really install > something is to ./configure will prevail on Linux for years to come. But when it is accompanied by plain misinformation like this, then you know :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 14:13 ` Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-14 15:22 ` Larry Kilgallen 2002-05-14 14:50 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 18:32 ` Ted Dennison 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 2002-05-14 15:22 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <5ee5b646.0205140613.14b17df4@posting.google.com>, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) writes: > James Ross <rem.jr@rem.webross.com> wrote in message news:<gbu0euoblrr1vmeb21tiarhmv4aqqih7lv@4ax.com>... >> On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > >> My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of >> lack of standards and ease of use. > > Of course when someone makes a claim like this, you never know whether it > is informed or not. For me it is hard to discern the discipline in which they need to be informed in order to be accurate. Marketing, and psychology would seem to be more useful than programming, but best of all would be a thorough background in time-travel. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 15:22 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 2002-05-14 14:50 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-14 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Time travel and crystal balls would be the most useful field of all. :-) I agree that a technical background is only mildly useful in predicting what will be the dominant technology. Technical knowledge gives you some sense of "Features" but lots more goes into buying decisions than just "Features" (try "Costs" and "Benefits" as the two other categories typically identified.) Experts in marketing would be far better equipped in identifying what the market is likely to be buying in the next few years. Linux certainly has its die-hard followers and it has made some significant inroads into the market. But the last time I checked at Costco, I didn't see a single machine sitting on the shelf that had Linux installed. Do any of the major manufacturers of PCs offer Linux as a pre-installed package? (Maybe some do - I have not checked lately) Are machines from major manufacturers available with Linux running on them, on display at CompUSA? When you go into Best Buy and leaf through all the jewl-box editions of software being offered up - or even the up-scale packages in boxes with manuals, how much Linux software do you see? Saying you can get the same stuff from the Internet free or cheap and go cobble your own OS/Apps together from there is saying "Only geeks will use Linux." I think when Linux has access to the gondolas and shelves in the big consumer electronics stores, we can start talking about it being a real threat to Windows. Until then, its largely a *potential* threat - albeit one that Bill Gates clearly takes very seriously. To get mildly back on topic, Ada advocates might take a lesson from that. Ada needs to appear in places where programmers make buy-decisions and needs to address what it is that programmers want to buy. To some extent, Ada is dealing with this much better of late. But it sure would be good to have some professional marketing research available & a marketing strategy carved out. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message news:qsXCmOF9Z+l+@eisner.encompasserve.org... > For me it is hard to discern the discipline in which they need to be > informed in order to be accurate. Marketing, and psychology would > seem to be more useful than programming, but best of all would be a > thorough background in time-travel. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 14:13 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-14 15:22 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 2002-05-14 18:32 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 18:40 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-15 2:18 ` James Ross 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-14 18:32 UTC (permalink / raw) dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote in message news:<5ee5b646.0205140613.14b17df4@posting.google.com>... > James Ross <rem.jr@rem.webross.com> wrote in message news:<gbu0euoblrr1vmeb21tiarhmv4aqqih7lv@4ax.com>... > > On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > > > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of > > lack of standards and ease of use. People, PLEASE be more careful in your quoting. Out of 6 responses I've seen to this message so far (including mine), 3 have cut it to look like *I* wrote this foolishness instead of James. I'm sure to James its not "foolishness", but to me it is. Either way, the proper person should take the "credit". :-) -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 18:32 ` Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-14 18:40 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-15 2:18 ` James Ross 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw) On 14 May 2002 11:32:06 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote in message news:<5ee5b646.0205140613.14b17df4@posting.google.com>... >> James Ross <rem.jr@rem.webross.com> wrote in message news:<gbu0euoblrr1vmeb21tiarhmv4aqqih7lv@4ax.com>... >> > On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: >> >> > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of >> > lack of standards and ease of use. > > People, PLEASE be more careful in your quoting. Out of 6 responses > I've seen to this message so far (including mine), 3 have cut it to > look like *I* wrote this foolishness instead of James. > > I'm sure to James its not "foolishness", but to me it is. Either way, > the proper person should take the "credit". :-) The problem is that some have a mangled News reader that do not put in who they are quoting. I don't think people deliberately cuts away the names as that would be plain stupid. So if all could please check their news reader an make sure the name gets added on top we could avoid this problem. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 18:32 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 18:40 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-15 2:18 ` James Ross 2002-05-15 15:32 ` Ted Dennison 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: James Ross @ 2002-05-15 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw) On 14 May 2002 11:32:06 -0700, dennison@telepath.com (Ted Dennison) wrote: >People, PLEASE be more careful in your quoting. Out of 6 responses >I've seen to this message so far (including mine), 3 have cut it to >look like *I* wrote this foolishness instead of James. > >I'm sure to James its not "foolishness", but to me it is. Either way, >the proper person should take the "credit". :-) I guess that was silly of me to post my opinion on this in the manner that I did. It was my opinion mixed with a little prejudice against Linux. I deserved to be flamed. I felt it was relevant in this thread at the time I wrote it, but in retrospect I don't think it was. I did not mean to put you in the spot of people thinking you wrote these comments. Sorry about that ... it wont happen again :) JR ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-15 2:18 ` James Ross @ 2002-05-15 15:32 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-15 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw) James Ross <rem.jr@rem.webross.com> wrote in message news:<v5h3eu42ap6ud9i3lf786mkvkj70sh6ljf@4ax.com>... > On 14 May 2002 11:32:06 -0700, dennison@telepath.com (Ted Dennison) > wrote: > >People, PLEASE be more careful in your quoting. Out of 6 responses > >I've seen to this message so far (including mine), 3 have cut it to > >look like *I* wrote this foolishness instead of James. > I did not mean to put you in the spot of people thinking you wrote > these comments. Sorry about that ... it wont happen again :) Actually, you are, oddly enough, one of the few people in this thread with nothing to apologise for. :-) Not that I want any apologies at all. I can take it; I'm a big boy. I would just like folks to be a wee bit more aware in their quoting next time. Perhaps keep it to only *one* miss-attribution per post? :-) -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2002-05-14 14:13 ` Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-14 14:20 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 18:55 ` Darren New 4 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-14 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw) James Ross <rem.jr@rem.webross.com> wrote in message news:<gbu0euoblrr1vmeb21tiarhmv4aqqih7lv@4ax.com>... > On 13 May 2002 07:33:44 -0700, Ted Dennison wrote: > > >I can live w/o MSOffice. > > Most people can't :( Even if assuming you have seamless networking > between your home and work, you still have to deal with file > conversion (and isn't that a faulty process?). I'd like to see numbers on that. I think "most people" can get by just fine without any computer at all at home. Certianly almost everyone I know in RL could do without theirs. I'll buy that there is a small but important *minority* of folks out there that feel like they need to take work home, and whose work involves producing Office-type documents. But I'd suspect most of them could even make do just fine with StarOffice or OpenOffice, if they stick to portable features and file formats (or just use OpenOffice at work to do their printouts). > Windows is the best consumer available OS period. And it will remain I'm not sure what is meant by "consumer available OS". I do think that the NT-kernel Windows variants are a lot better OS's than most people give them credit for. All those years of Win3.1 and 9x series (which were really completely different OS's with some compatabilies) gave it a bad name that will be tough to live down. > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of > lack of standards and ease of use. The mentality that the primary > interface is the command line and the only way to really install > something is to ./configure will prevail on Linux for years to come. That I don't know about. Linux is worlds better in this regard than it was 6 years ago when I first heard of it. NT (3.51) at the time was a bit worse than today, but not immensely. I wouldn't be so bold as to predict that the relative pace of improvement between these two OS's is suddenly going to change. Perhaps it will, but I see no obvious reason why it would, and no signs of it starting to do so. -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2002-05-14 14:20 ` Ted Dennison @ 2002-05-14 18:55 ` Darren New 2002-05-14 19:37 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 20:00 ` Preben Randhol 4 siblings, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Darren New @ 2002-05-14 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw) James Ross wrote: > My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of > lack of standards and ease of use. http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/01/fog0000000096.shtml -- Darren New San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. ** http://home.san.rr.com/dnew/DNResume.html ** The 90/10 rule of toothpaste: the last 10% of the tube lasts as long as the first 90%. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 18:55 ` Darren New @ 2002-05-14 19:37 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-15 21:24 ` Darren New 2002-05-14 20:00 ` Preben Randhol 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-14 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw) An excellent article and one that makes some very valid points about the current Open Source situation. The observation about Open Source distributed development being a "Me Too" kind of thing is very important. It sees something it likes and then it emulates it rather than looking at who the customer is and what he wants and tries to *invent* something to satisfy the need. Maybe Linux is successful because it provides a better/cheaper Unix, but it doesn't exactly break open any vast undiscovered new territory. The only dispute I might have with the article is that just because there are weaknesses in the distributed, volunteer, open source development model that lots of apps can't or won't appear for Linux. If Linux has a big enough installed base, developers may be tempted to start porting apps to it. (Linux doesn't execute Open Source apps only, right?) But I would agree that until Linux can point to a really large base of apps that are simple to install and use and satisfy the wide range of requirements people have, it will have limited success in supplanting Windows. This is an excellent example for anyone interested in producing an Ada operating system. Its got to be "different". Its got to satisfy some identifiable need. If it can't come out the door with a thousand apps on it, then it needs to address some part of the market that doesn't need a thousand apps. (How's that for getting back on topic? :-) MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com "Darren New" <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:3CE15DC0.480B8FE8@san.rr.com... > > http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/01/fog0000000096.shtml > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 19:37 ` Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-15 21:24 ` Darren New 2002-05-16 14:12 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Darren New @ 2002-05-15 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Marin David Condic wrote: > The only dispute I might have with the article is that just because there > are weaknesses in the distributed, volunteer, open source development model > that lots of apps can't or won't appear for Linux. Agreed. I'd missed that conflation the first time I read it. Yeah, Linux is a wash on the desktop right now because there aren't desktop apps for it of the same quality as what you can get for Windows, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be closed-source apps if Linux was out there a lot. And yes, the problem with the AdaOS is the lack of apps. The chicken-egg thing. But if an OS is supposed to provide general services, it would seem a "killer app" wouldn't need a new OS, yes? Unless no existing OS was suitable for developing the app, at which point the app and the OS become one? -- Darren New San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. ** http://home.san.rr.com/dnew/DNResume.html ** ** http://images.fbrtech.com/dnew/ ** My brain needs a "back" button so I can remember where I left my coffee mug. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-15 21:24 ` Darren New @ 2002-05-16 14:12 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-16 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw) "Darren New" <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:3CE2D238.50F3EFD1@san.rr.com... > > Agreed. I'd missed that conflation the first time I read it. Yeah, Linux > is a wash on the desktop right now because there aren't desktop apps for > it of the same quality as what you can get for Windows, but that doesn't > mean there wouldn't be closed-source apps if Linux was out there a lot. > I think the point was that even though Linux *does* have desktop apps, your typical Windows user has some *specialized* need as well as the general needs everyone has. Linux (in its current state) doesn't have the bazzillion specialized apps out there - just some good general ones that make it fit well with server applications at the moment. For example, I need a word processor, a spreadsheet, an e-mail program *and* a cross-compilation environment to a particular set-top box & OS. Linux can give me the word processor, spreadsheet and the e-mail program. I can't get the cross-compiler? No way can I use Linux. Others would have similar needs, but not identical ones. This was where the article was going with saying Linux has a problem in catching up with Windows. I agree - to the point where Linux becomes of sufficient mass that many major developers see some money to be made in porting their apps to it. > And yes, the problem with the AdaOS is the lack of apps. The chicken-egg > thing. But if an OS is supposed to provide general services, it would > seem a "killer app" wouldn't need a new OS, yes? Unless no existing OS > was suitable for developing the app, at which point the app and the OS > become one? > The problem with AdaOS is *existence* not lack of apps! :-) What I was suggesting is that AdaOS could take a lesson from that article and be sure to (Lean close and pay attention because this *will* be on the final exam! :-) a) Be Something Different!!!!!!! and b) Target A Domain Where It Doesn't *NEED* A Bazillion Apps To Compete. I've suggested that AdaOS have some ability to service realtime apps because developers in that domain don't necessarily need to execute every app in the world - just the one they are custom-developing. (Or that, and a handful of other things that are running non-real-time.) However, other domains might present similar opportunities - Servers being an example. (A server needs a few apps running on it to get its job done, but it isn't something that typically demands thousands of specialized apps to be useful to a large number of people.) Or possibly target the users of computers for solving large-scale math applications. They don't need to have Autocad or Video-Toaster or Sim City running on the machine. (And they don't generally need realtime - so a more Unixish/Windowsish approach to scheduling and device driving can work)They're going to suck up nearly all the CPU executing some custom math application they built, so they aren't going to demand a bazillion apps. (They'll demand that the OS give them something they don't get elsewhere - and probably that it at least "play nice with others" in the network.) See my point? If AdaOS targets an appropriate market that they can realistically offer something to, it might find a following. If it finds a following, it might grow to a sufficient user base to start attracting more developers. Then you'll get your chickens and eggs thing solved. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-14 18:55 ` Darren New 2002-05-14 19:37 ` Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-14 20:00 ` Preben Randhol 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-14 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 14 May 2002 18:55:39 GMT, Darren New wrote: > James Ross wrote: >> My prediction is that Linux will *never* be consumer grade because of >> lack of standards and ease of use. > > http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/01/fog0000000096.shtml *yawn* Like they were saying about Linux on the server market earlier. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-03 3:11 Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-03 8:57 ` Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-04 16:20 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-04 16:21 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-05 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-04 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, 02 May 2002 20:11:01 -0700, Robert R. Beaver wrote: > Is it posible? > IF so what are the steps to do so? Do you mean that you have only FreeBSD and what to make Win32 executables. Or do you want to make programs for both FreeBSD and Win32. If the latter (but I expect you ask the prior) usually a simple recompile on the other target is enough, unless you do some spesific hardware things. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-04 16:20 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-04 16:21 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-05 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-04 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 4 May 2002 16:20:45 +0000 (UTC), Preben Randhol wrote: > On Thu, 02 May 2002 20:11:01 -0700, Robert R. Beaver wrote: >> Is it posible? >> IF so what are the steps to do so? > > Do you mean that you have only FreeBSD and what to make Win32 ^^^^ want > executables. Or do you want to make programs for both FreeBSD and Win32. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-04 16:20 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-04 16:21 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-05 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-05 15:11 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-06 0:48 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-05 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol wrote: > On Thu, 02 May 2002 20:11:01 -0700, Robert R. Beaver wrote: > >>Is it posible? >>IF so what are the steps to do so? >> > > Do you mean that you have only FreeBSD and what to make Win32 > executables. Or do you want to make programs for both FreeBSD and Win32. > If the latter (but I expect you ask the prior) usually a simple > recompile on the other target is enough, unless you do some spesific > hardware things. > > Preben > Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs work on both. I do not usualy write for win32. If I do it is done in tcl or forth. By the way what is a good cross platform graphic library for Ada? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-05 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-05 15:11 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-06 0:48 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-05 15:11 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sun, 05 May 2002 08:19:40 -0700, Robert R. Beaver wrote: > Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs work on both. > I do not usualy write for win32. If I do it is done in tcl or forth. Ok, but then you can get your program compiled more easily by doing it on a win32 after you have delevoped it on FreeBSD. > By the way what is a good cross platform graphic library for Ada? GtkAda : http://libre.act-europe.fr/GtkAda/ Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-05 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-05 15:11 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-06 0:48 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-06 3:44 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-07 21:16 ` Florian Weimer 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-06 0:48 UTC (permalink / raw) "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3CD54D8C.3020302@qwest.net>... > Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs > work on both. I do not usualy write for win32. Using a cross-compiler is an inappropriate and complex way of addressing your problem. My advice is to completely forget this approach it makes no sense. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-06 0:48 ` Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-06 3:44 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-06 9:22 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-07 21:16 ` Florian Weimer 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-06 3:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar wrote: > "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3CD54D8C.3020302@qwest.net>... > >>Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs > work on both. I do not usualy write for win32. >> > > Using a cross-compiler is an inappropriate and complex > way of addressing your problem. My advice is to completely > forget this approach it makes no sense. > Can you suggest what would make sense? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-06 3:44 ` Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-06 9:22 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-05-06 9:22 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sun, 05 May 2002 20:44:08 -0700, Robert R. Beaver wrote: > Can you suggest what would make sense? Compile your program on Win32 too. Or distribute the source so others can. Why do you really want to generate the win32 exectuables on FreeBSD ? Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-06 0:48 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-06 3:44 ` Robert R. Beaver @ 2002-05-07 21:16 ` Florian Weimer 2002-05-08 3:46 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-08 14:14 ` Stephen Leake 1 sibling, 2 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Florian Weimer @ 2002-05-07 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw) dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) writes: > "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3CD54D8C.3020302@qwest.net>... >> Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs work on >> both. I do not usualy write for win32. > > Using a cross-compiler is an inappropriate and complex > way of addressing your problem. My advice is to completely > forget this approach it makes no sense. Why do you think so? I wouldn't use a cross compiler for Windows-only projects, but I can imagine to use one in the context of a multiplatform project. Quite a few of the tools I like do not run at all on Windows, or only after careful investigation and/or substantial tweaking (decent editors accessible over SSH come to my mind as an example). My first and only Windows Ada project (and one of my few Ada programs which are actually in production use, although this program features are rather uniqe time bomb) was really tiny, and copying the source files to a Windows box for compilation was an option, but I don't think this works with larger projects. Curiously enough, I started with a C cross compiler on a Debian system, but I soon discovered that the import libraries lacked several undocumented functions, that's why I thought I could use Ada as well (I tried to use C first because I assumed I wouldn't have to deal with manually importing functions from DLLs). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-07 21:16 ` Florian Weimer @ 2002-05-08 3:46 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-08 14:14 ` Stephen Leake 1 sibling, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-08 3:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> wrote in message news:<87elgnzmj2.fsf@deneb.enyo.de>... > dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) writes: > > > "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<3CD54D8C.3020302@qwest.net>... > > >> Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs work on > >> both. I do not usualy write for win32. > > > > Using a cross-compiler is an inappropriate and complex > > way of addressing your problem. My advice is to completely > > forget this approach it makes no sense. > > Why do you think so? Because to test the program out, you have to set up a windows environment anyway, you can't just assume it will work. Given that it is *far* easier to simply recompile on windows, rather than mess with non-existent cross compilers, especially if you are not familiar with such compilers (building a cross *to* windows is especially complex). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-07 21:16 ` Florian Weimer 2002-05-08 3:46 ` Robert Dewar @ 2002-05-08 14:14 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-09 17:46 ` Darren New 1 sibling, 1 reply; 49+ messages in thread From: Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-08 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes: > dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) writes: > > > "Robert R. Beaver" <beaveroregon@qwest.net> wrote in message > > news:<3CD54D8C.3020302@qwest.net>... > > >> Yes, I run FreeBSD only. I would like to make my programs work on > >> both. I do not usualy write for win32. > > > > Using a cross-compiler is an inappropriate and complex > > way of addressing your problem. My advice is to completely > > forget this approach it makes no sense. > > Why do you think so? I wouldn't use a cross compiler for Windows-only > projects, but I can imagine to use one in the context of a > multiplatform project. Quite a few of the tools I like do not run at > all on Windows, or only after careful investigation and/or substantial > tweaking (decent editors accessible over SSH come to my mind as an > example). The Cygwin toolset (http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/) goes a long way towards providing a "unix-like" environment on Windows. It provides inetd and ssh; you can log into it remotely. I don't believe there is an Emacs for Windows or Cygwin that uses an X interface, so running Emacs on a Windows box with the display elsewhere is not there yet (I bet people are working on it, though :). But the other direction is possible; I do that all the time. And cvs is there, to handle sharing the code between systems. I build non-gui programs that run on Linux, Solaris, and Windows all the time, and never use a cross-compiler. CVS, ssh, gnu tools, and Emacs on all boxes, with Windows as the main X-server, works well for me. -- -- Stephe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? 2002-05-08 14:14 ` Stephen Leake @ 2002-05-09 17:46 ` Darren New 0 siblings, 0 replies; 49+ messages in thread From: Darren New @ 2002-05-09 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Stephen Leake wrote: > I don't believe there is an Emacs for Windows or Cygwin that uses an X > interface, so running Emacs on a Windows box with the display > elsewhere is not there yet (I bet people are working on it, though :). VNC is your friend. -- Darren New San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. The 90/10 rule of toothpaste: the last 10% of the tube lasts as long as the first 90%. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 49+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-05-16 14:12 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 49+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2002-05-03 3:11 Gnat cross compiling FreeBSD to Win32 ? Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-03 8:57 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-04 16:12 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-09 16:14 ` David Brown 2002-05-11 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-11 18:17 ` Pascal Obry 2002-05-11 20:21 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-12 1:09 ` DPH 2002-05-12 9:50 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-13 12:56 ` Dave Head 2002-05-12 8:30 ` [OT] " Pascal Obry 2002-05-12 9:20 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-12 10:29 ` Pascal Obry 2002-05-13 14:33 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 3:51 ` James Ross 2002-05-14 8:14 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 15:04 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-14 15:38 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 16:55 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-14 17:28 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 17:57 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-14 20:45 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-15 3:38 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-14 10:02 ` Ingo Marks 2002-05-14 17:06 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 14:13 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-14 15:22 ` Larry Kilgallen 2002-05-14 14:50 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 18:32 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 18:40 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-15 2:18 ` James Ross 2002-05-15 15:32 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 14:20 ` Ted Dennison 2002-05-14 18:55 ` Darren New 2002-05-14 19:37 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-15 21:24 ` Darren New 2002-05-16 14:12 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-14 20:00 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-04 16:20 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-04 16:21 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-05 15:19 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-05 15:11 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-06 0:48 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-06 3:44 ` Robert R. Beaver 2002-05-06 9:22 ` Preben Randhol 2002-05-07 21:16 ` Florian Weimer 2002-05-08 3:46 ` Robert Dewar 2002-05-08 14:14 ` Stephen Leake 2002-05-09 17:46 ` Darren New
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