* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) @ 2002-03-22 6:48 Christoph Grein 2002-03-22 12:37 ` Reinert Korsnes ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Christoph Grein @ 2002-03-22 6:48 UTC (permalink / raw) From: dennison@telepath.com > Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>... > > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like > > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a > > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :) > > Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America" > isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which > one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different > politicial views in this country. Many of them are bound to fall on > either side of yours. > > I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern > countries asking their views of America. America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other countries on this continent! US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans". ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 6:48 Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Christoph Grein @ 2002-03-22 12:37 ` Reinert Korsnes 2002-03-22 14:54 ` Ted Dennison ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Reinert Korsnes @ 2002-03-22 12:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Christoph Grein wrote: > From: dennison@telepath.com >> Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message > news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>... >> > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like >> > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a >> > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :) >> >> Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America" >> isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which >> one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different >> politicial views in this country. Many of them are bound to fall on >> either side of yours. >> >> I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern >> countries asking their views of America. > > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 > other countries on this continent! > > US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. > Even we in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this > disease by feeling forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans". I am a human - which is another name for Norwegian citizen :-) reinert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 6:48 Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Christoph Grein 2002-03-22 12:37 ` Reinert Korsnes @ 2002-03-22 14:54 ` Ted Dennison 2002-03-22 15:44 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New 3 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-03-22 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw) Christoph Grein <christoph.grein@eurocopter.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1016779803.31526.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>... > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other > countries on this continent! 2 Continents, you mean. > US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we > in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling > forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans". Don't read too much into that. "America" in this case is a very natural shortening of "United States of America". You are right that some variants on that form could also be taken as referring to the entire western hemisphere ("The Americas"). But, as I'm sure you are more aware than most native speakers, English is full of ambiguous words. Listeners are expected to pick up which sense is meant from context, and in this case that's rarely difficult. Its indicitive of our English penchant for short synonyms, not of any ignorance about our hemispheric neighbors. Seing as a tremendous proportion of our immigrants come from this hemisphere, it would be a tough ignorance to maintain. In Texas, Califonia, and Florida the support of Latinos is crutial for winning any statewide election. Those happen to also be 3 of our biggest 4 states. It would be exeedingly difficult to get elected president without winning any of them. Note that USA isn't a unique designator either. There is a city in Japan by that name. :-) -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 6:48 Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Christoph Grein 2002-03-22 12:37 ` Reinert Korsnes 2002-03-22 14:54 ` Ted Dennison @ 2002-03-22 15:44 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-22 17:58 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New 3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-22 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw) "Christoph Grein" <christoph.grein@eurocopter.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1016779803.31526.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > From: dennison@telepath.com > > Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message > news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>... > > > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like > > > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a > > > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :) > > > > Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America" > > isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which > > one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different > > politicial views in this country. Many of them are bound to fall on > > either side of yours. > > > > I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern > > countries asking their views of America. > > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other > countries on this continent! > > US citizens tend to see their country as encompassing the whole world. Even we > in Germany (or even whole of Europe?) are infected with this disease by feeling > forced to speak of US citizens as "Americans". Hang on. That's much too broad. Clearly, you must base your conclusion on the population of US citizens that you have encountered, and just as clearly, that cannot be all US citizens. For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of Europe :-). Now, I admit we Texans do have this view you describe -- not of the US, of course, but of Texas! :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 15:44 ` Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-22 17:58 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 18:10 ` Jim Rogers ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-22 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote: > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of > Europe :-). Huh? What continent is UK part of? -- Preben Randhol �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.� ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 17:58 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-22 18:10 ` Jim Rogers 2002-03-22 18:21 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-22 18:18 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-26 0:53 ` Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Kent Paul Dolan 2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Jim Rogers @ 2002-03-22 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol wrote: > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote: > >>For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of >>Europe :-). >> > > Huh? What continent is UK part of? Politically or geographically? Last I heard, the UK was a member of the EU. Many Atlases and geographical texts include Greenland as part of North America. Similar logic would include the British Isles as part of Europe. Jim Rogers ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 18:10 ` Jim Rogers @ 2002-03-22 18:21 ` Pat Rogers 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-22 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw) "Jim Rogers" <jimmaureenrogers@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3C9B7394.3040607@worldnet.att.net... > Preben Randhol wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote: > > > >>For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of > >>Europe :-). > >> > > > > Huh? What continent is UK part of? > > > Politically or geographically? > > Last I heard, the UK was a member of the EU. > > Many Atlases and geographical texts include Greenland as part of > North America. Similar logic would include the British Isles as > part of Europe. I needed more smiley's. I know people, who are natives of England, who would say that the UK is not part of Europe. Europe is "over there". They would be grinning when they said it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 17:58 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 18:10 ` Jim Rogers @ 2002-03-22 18:18 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-23 0:14 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-26 0:53 ` Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Kent Paul Dolan 2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-22 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw) "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message news:slrna9msj3.1r3.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no... > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:44:30 GMT, Pat Rogers wrote: > > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of > > Europe :-). > > Huh? What continent is UK part of? The English people that I know (at least some of them) would say that Europe is "over there", meaning "The Continent". Hence the smiley. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-22 18:18 ` Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-23 0:14 ` Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 12:32 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 0:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Pat Rogers <progers@classwide.com> wrote: : : The English people that I know (at least some of them) would say that Europe is : "over there", meaning "The Continent". Strong indication of at least England not beeing part of Europe is the term Continental Breakfast. Which OTOH isn't always dested. And how is Europe involved in The Commonwealth?... -- georg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-23 0:14 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 12:32 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-25 9:03 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-23 12:32 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:14:12 +0000 (UTC), Georg Bauhaus wrote: > Strong indication of at least England not beeing part > of Europe is the term Continental Breakfast. Which OTOH > isn't always dested. Hehe. Well I find that in the countries of Europe with a great food tradition, breakfasts are usually the worst meal of the day (if they at all bother with it). This is a bit puzzeling to a Norwegian as breakfast is recognised by most as a very important meal. However eating a full English breakfast will last you all day (more or less). > And how is Europe involved in The Commonwealth?... Did England colonised any part of Europe? -- Preben Randhol �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.� ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-23 12:32 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-25 9:03 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen 2002-03-25 10:17 ` Preben Randhol 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Jean-Pierre Rosen @ 2002-03-25 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 424 bytes --] "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> a �crit dans le message news: > Did England colonised any part of Europe? > Of course. South of France was long occupied by England (in the Middle-ages). That's why most british people *still* prefer Bordeaux to Bourgogne.... -- --------------------------------------------------------- J-P. Rosen (rosen@adalog.fr) Visit Adalog's web site at http://www.adalog.fr ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-25 9:03 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen @ 2002-03-25 10:17 ` Preben Randhol 2002-04-02 9:42 ` Frank 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-25 10:17 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:03:51 +0100, Jean-Pierre Rosen wrote: > > "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> a �crit dans le message news: >> Did England colonised any part of Europe? >> > Of course. South of France was long occupied by England (in the > Middle-ages). That's why most british people *still* prefer Bordeaux > to Bourgogne.... Ah yes, but I think that was pre-Commonwealth. Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-25 10:17 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-04-02 9:42 ` Frank 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Frank @ 2002-04-02 9:42 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 205 bytes --] > > "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> a �crit dans le message news: > >> Did England colonised any part of Europe? > >> Gibraltar, South-"Spain" (don't know how it was "colonized":-) Frank ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 17:58 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 18:10 ` Jim Rogers 2002-03-22 18:18 ` Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-26 0:53 ` Kent Paul Dolan 2002-03-30 10:26 ` Philip Anderson 2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Kent Paul Dolan @ 2002-03-26 0:53 UTC (permalink / raw) In comp.lang.ada "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote: > Pat Rogers wrote: > > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of > > Europe :-). > Huh? What continent is UK part of? Unless you side with John Donne, that no empire is an island, each is a piece of the continent, a part of the main, I'd suggest that at least the British Isles are just that. Since the UK was once globe spanning, asking of what continent it is a part doesn't make much sense. xanthian. Nobody _must_ be a piece of a continent, continents are just conventions: Europe is firmly attached to Asia, yet they are called different continents, Britain is in no way attached to Europe, so why should they be called parts of the same continent? As well call Hawaii a part of North America, because it is currently politically a part of the US. 60km from Dover to Normandy, 3000km from Oahu to San Francisco, the difference is only one of degree. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-26 0:53 ` Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Kent Paul Dolan @ 2002-03-30 10:26 ` Philip Anderson 2002-04-02 19:53 ` Divide NOT? (sort of still): " Kent Paul Dolan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Philip Anderson @ 2002-03-30 10:26 UTC (permalink / raw) Kent Paul Dolan wrote in message <6f07b246012ce00b048b501ff038bbf8.48257@mygate.mailgate.org>... >In comp.lang.ada "Preben Randhol" <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote: > >> Pat Rogers wrote: >> > For that matter, in the UK we are called "Yanks" (not that the UK is part of >> > Europe :-). > >> Huh? What continent is UK part of? > >Unless you side with John Donne, that no empire is an island, each is a >piece of the continent, a part of the main, I'd suggest that at least >the British Isles are just that. Since the UK was once globe spanning, >asking of what continent it is a part doesn't make much sense. The UK [the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland] was never globe-spanning, though the British Empire was. >xanthian. > >Nobody _must_ be a piece of a continent, continents are just >conventions: Europe is firmly attached to Asia, yet they are called >different continents, Britain is in no way attached to Europe, so why >should they be called parts of the same continent? It's attached by the Continental Shelf, has been separated by water for only a few thousand years and is now linked by the Channel Tunnel. More to the point, there is no cultural divide (except in the minds of some Little Englanders). -- hwyl/cheers Philip Anderson Cymru/Wales ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Divide NOT? (sort of still): Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-30 10:26 ` Philip Anderson @ 2002-04-02 19:53 ` Kent Paul Dolan 2002-04-03 1:09 ` Jim Rogers 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Kent Paul Dolan @ 2002-04-02 19:53 UTC (permalink / raw) "Philip Anderson" <pjanderson@freeuk.com> wrote: Umm, on the basis of land bridges, North America is a part of Asia; I don't think that works. > More > to the point, there is no cultural divide (except in the minds of some > Little Englanders). France, with the most impoverished language probably on the planet, some 60,000 words, and kept that way by force of law, as it would otherwise evolve to catch up with the rest of the planet, sits on one end of the chunnel, and England, with a 2.5 million word language, sits on the other. Granted that's more of a cultural _chasm_ than a cultural divide, I must beg to disagree that the two sides have much in common besides joint and cotemperaneous use of battlefields. xanthian. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Divide NOT? (sort of still): Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-04-02 19:53 ` Divide NOT? (sort of still): " Kent Paul Dolan @ 2002-04-03 1:09 ` Jim Rogers 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Jim Rogers @ 2002-04-03 1:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Kent Paul Dolan wrote: > "Philip Anderson" <pjanderson@freeuk.com> wrote: > > Umm, on the basis of land bridges, North America is a part of Asia; I > don't think that works. For that matter, there is still a very visible land bridge between North America and South America. I don't think that works either. > > >>More >>to the point, there is no cultural divide (except in the minds of some >>Little Englanders). >> > > France, with the most impoverished language probably on the planet, some > 60,000 words, and kept that way by force of law, as it would otherwise > evolve to catch up with the rest of the planet, sits on one end of the > chunnel, and England, with a 2.5 million word language, sits on the > other. Granted that's more of a cultural _chasm_ than a cultural > divide, I must beg to disagree that the two sides have much in common > besides joint and cotemperaneous use of battlefields. Let's see, many English words are derivations of French words. This seems to be the result of something called the Norman Invasion. At different time in history both France and the UK have been the best friend of the United States of America. At other times in history both countries have been the primary enemies of the United States of America. Both countries have spent large parts of the 20th century joining together to fight Germany. Soon both countries will be joined by a common currency. Jim Rogers ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 6:48 Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Christoph Grein ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2002-03-22 15:44 ` Pat Rogers @ 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New 2002-03-22 18:45 ` Preben Randhol ` (3 more replies) 3 siblings, 4 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Darren New @ 2002-03-22 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Christoph Grein wrote: > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other > countries on this continent! Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you mean?" After several weeks, I just gave up. :-) -- Darren New San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. Remember, drive defensively if you drink. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New @ 2002-03-22 18:45 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 23:57 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-22 19:24 ` Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Larry Hazel ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-22 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:34:37 GMT, Darren New wrote: > Christoph Grein wrote: >> America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other >> countries on this continent! > > Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm > from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you Which United States ? ;-) -- Preben Randhol �For me, Ada95 puts back the joy in programming.� ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-22 18:45 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-22 23:57 ` Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 1:55 ` Jeffrey Carter 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-22 23:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote: :> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm :> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you : : Which United States ? ;-) Estados Unidos, EEUU, that's pretty clear isn't it? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-22 23:57 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 1:55 ` Jeffrey Carter 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey Carter @ 2002-03-23 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Georg Bauhaus wrote: > > Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote: > > :> Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm > :> from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you > : > : Which United States ? ;-) > > Estados Unidos, EEUU, that's pretty clear isn't it? Randhol was probably referring to the many other countries that have "United States" in their full names, such as the Mexican United States, the United States of Brazil, and so on. You have to remember that at one time the USA was actually admired by other countries. Mexico, Brazil, and Australia all copied the District of Columbia idea and established federal districts, not part of any state, to house their capital cities. -- Jeff Carter "I fart in your general direction." Monty Python & the Holy Grail ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New 2002-03-22 18:45 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-03-22 19:24 ` Larry Hazel 2002-03-22 23:56 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 0:07 ` Georg Bauhaus 3 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Larry Hazel @ 2002-03-22 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Darren New wrote: > > Christoph Grein wrote: > > America, America ... not all of America is the USA. There are about 30 other > > countries on this continent! > > Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm > from, I say "I'm from the US." The answer is invariably "America, you > mean?" After several weeks, I just gave up. :-) > I just told them I am from Alabama. Larry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New 2002-03-22 18:45 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 19:24 ` Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Larry Hazel @ 2002-03-22 23:56 ` Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 0:30 ` Darren New 2002-03-23 0:07 ` Georg Bauhaus 3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-22 23:56 UTC (permalink / raw) Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote: : Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm : from, I say "I'm from the US." Try "United States". Abreviatitis is not that popular in some parts of this continent :-. - georg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-22 23:56 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 0:30 ` Darren New 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Darren New @ 2002-03-23 0:30 UTC (permalink / raw) Georg Bauhaus wrote: > Try "United States". Abreviatitis is not that popular in > some parts of this continent :-. Well, I try "United States", "the states", etc. The europeans *I* run into want to hear "american". :-) Not that this is any more OT than anything else going on. :-) -- Darren New San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. Remember, drive defensively if you drink. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2002-03-22 23:56 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 0:07 ` Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 15:10 ` tony 3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 0:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote: : Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm : from, I say "I'm from the US." In the light of Preben's question as to which united states I should add that indeed there is some talk about the united states of Europe, in these or other words. So wrt my advice in another post to say "United States" I should probably add that the expression might profit from a pantomimically accompanied geographical indication :-) Ah, has it? It's true: America here (Europe, continent) is easily understood to mean USA; the US army was present in Europe after WW II, and they were named Americans, even in scientific books. This seems to have lasted. -- georg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-23 0:07 ` Georg Bauhaus @ 2002-03-23 15:10 ` tony 2002-03-23 15:16 ` Gary Scott 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: tony @ 2002-03-23 15:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Georg Bauhaus wrote: > > Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote: > > : Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm > : from, I say "I'm from the US." > > In the light of Preben's question as to which united states > I should add that indeed there is some talk about the united > states of Europe, in these or other words. So wrt my advice in > another post to say "United States" I should probably add that > the expression might profit from a pantomimically accompanied > geographical indication :-) Ah, has it? > > It's true: America here (Europe, continent) is easily understood > to mean USA; the US army was present in Europe after WW II, and > they were named Americans, even in scientific books. This seems > to have lasted. > > -- georg Well whats everybody got to say the Israeli palestinian conflict then ?????????????????????????????????????? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Waay OT - America 2002-03-23 15:10 ` tony @ 2002-03-23 15:16 ` Gary Scott 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Gary Scott @ 2002-03-23 15:16 UTC (permalink / raw) tony wrote: > > Georg Bauhaus wrote: > > > > Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> wrote: > > > > : Strangely enough, whenever I'm in Europe and people ask me where I'm > > : from, I say "I'm from the US." > > > > In the light of Preben's question as to which united states > > I should add that indeed there is some talk about the united > > states of Europe, in these or other words. So wrt my advice in > > another post to say "United States" I should probably add that > > the expression might profit from a pantomimically accompanied > > geographical indication :-) Ah, has it? > > > > It's true: America here (Europe, continent) is easily understood > > to mean USA; the US army was present in Europe after WW II, and > > they were named Americans, even in scientific books. This seems > > to have lasted. > > > > -- georg > > Well whats everybody got to say the Israeli palestinian conflict then > ?????????????????????????????????????? I say that genetically speaking there's very little difference between Israelis, Palestinians, Irish, Germans, Chinese, Finnish, Icelanders...so why can't we all just get along. -- Gary Scott mailto:scottg@flash.net mailto:webmaster@fortranlib.com http://www.fortranlib.com Support the GNU Fortran G95 Project: http://g95.sourceforge.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Ada? @ 2002-02-19 21:21 anymous 2002-02-24 3:23 ` Ada? Nick Roberts 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: anymous @ 2002-02-19 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw) I was thinking about learning ada. I was wondering were the language was heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its uses. I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any? Thanks for any info. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada? 2002-02-19 21:21 Ada? anymous @ 2002-02-24 3:23 ` Nick Roberts 2002-02-27 15:26 ` Ada? Enrico A. 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Nick Roberts @ 2002-02-24 3:23 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:21:30 -0600, "anymous" <anymous@nowhere.com> strongly typed: >I was thinking about learning ada. I was wondering were the language was >heading. Is it obsolete, or is it still in use, and if it is, what are its >uses. I also know Visual Basic, will this help me any? Thanks for any >info. I encourage you to learn Ada, at least to a basic level (as it were ;-) since the knowledge will certainly help you to use and understand other languages better (yes, really true). Ada is not obsolete yet, and will not become utterly obsolete for a long time. It is, however, used for only a tiny percentage of all the professional programming projects in the world, and this seems unlikely to change significantly in the foreseeable future (much as we Ada enthusiasts would wish otherwise). The projects Ada is used in may be considered 'glamorous' (e.g. the flight systems of the Space Shuttle); but getting a job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and reportedly near impossible in most other countries). On the other hand, there is a huge demand for Visual Basic at the moment (which may well shift towards Java, C#, and maybe other 'flavour' languages in the not-too-distant future). You should endeavour to learn either VB or Java, if you may be looking to get a programming job to pay the rent. I'd also suggest it's important you learn elementary SQL (if you haven't already). If you are in the unusual position of being able to choose a programming language for a particular project, then the next question is certainly "What is your application?" (The application domain for VB is very different to that of Ada, and the overlap is small.) My advice for getting a programming job is: find out as much as you can about what the prospective employer is doing, and needs (or is likely to need) programmers for, and then walk in and (LIE!) make out your skills and interests are all in those areas (with a totally straight face); whichever languages they use or require skill in, tell them you know them all intimately (again, just LIE, even if you've never of heard of them); always be courteous, but assume the company -- no matter how big, slick, or impressive -- is a pile of pig excrement to work for, and ask as many diplomatic questions as you can to allow them to prove otherwise (and if they fail to prove otherwise, take another offer if you have one). Simply do not worry you are overselling yourself (just take it from me). Emphasise practicality. As ever, I add the advice that, in reality, the way you program is always more important than the language you program in, and that the language chosen should always be the one 'right for the job', just like a carpenter will select just the right tool, from a box of many. The more languages you know (to a level where you can use it in anger), the better a programmer you are; it's not _which_ languages you know that counts, but how many. There's also things such as your knowledge of libraries, programming tricks and techniques, algorithms, and debugging. Above all, simple patience typically marks out an unusually useful programmer. On the other hand, do not overload your brain (this is actually a serious comment). Do stretch yourself, but not too far. We all have limitations: find yours, and do not grossly exceed them; do not hurt the most precious thing you have (your mind). If you ever get to the point where (for more than just a few days) you don't enjoy programming any more, quit it as soon as you diplomatically can, and pursue a better career (there are many). Enough advice! Good luck. -- Nick Roberts ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada? 2002-02-24 3:23 ` Ada? Nick Roberts @ 2002-02-27 15:26 ` Enrico A. 2002-03-19 15:06 ` Ada? Colin Paul Gloster 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Enrico A. @ 2002-02-27 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw) Ciao, >but getting a > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and > reportedly near impossible in most other countries). here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat too. I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books about Ada in Italian on print. But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1 Month ago)... Ciao, Enrico B.A. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada? 2002-02-27 15:26 ` Ada? Enrico A. @ 2002-03-19 15:06 ` Colin Paul Gloster 2002-03-19 20:57 ` Ada? Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Colin Paul Gloster @ 2002-03-19 15:06 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <98104da8.0202270726.97da933@posting.google.com>, Et 27 Feb 2002 07:26:13 -0800 ETnrico A. wrote: "Ciao, >but getting a > job programming in Ada is relatively difficult, even in the US (and > reportedly near impossible in most other countries). here in Italy Ada is pretty unknown, I think only 3 or 4 companies use it. For sure Agusta use Ada in some projects and someone told me Fiat too. I've to tell you something : some time ago i went to the biggest bookstore here in Milan (5 floors full of books) to buy an Ada book in Italian, but I didn't found it, so i asked to a librarian there and he laught a lot and said to me "Ahahah Ada ahahah you're crazy!! Who uses Ada in this world? Ahahah... go and use something else, like C ahahah". Very disappointing. Of course there were (there are) no books about Ada in Italian on print. But, let me know, a good Ada programmer, in the US, is paid well? I ask that because i think i'll come to live in the USA soon (one or two years) with my young wife and my lil' child (he was born less than 1 Month ago)... Ciao, Enrico B.A" If there are Italian companies you know of which use Ada, why not work for them? I think you would find it hard to get work in the U.S.A. because there is official national interest bias towards hiring U.S. citizens. I think you will find it hard to work with Ada in the U.S.A. because it would be tougher to get miliatry clearance; and a former corrspondent of mine at Meteosat reported extreme opposition to his notion of working for NASA. However, I think that foreigners can work for companies which work for NASA (and may actually have their offices at NASA sites). Also, consider other European countries with Ada users. Congratulations on your newly born child.t ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada? 2002-03-19 15:06 ` Ada? Colin Paul Gloster @ 2002-03-19 20:57 ` Ted Dennison 2002-03-20 2:08 ` Ada? Adrian Hoe 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-03-19 20:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Colin Paul Gloster <Colin_Paul_Gloster@ACM.org> wrote in message news:<slrna9ekvf.9nt.Colin_Paul_Gloster@syrah.ncl.ac.uk>... > I think you will find it hard to work with Ada in the U.S.A. because > it would be tougher to get miliatry clearance; and a former corrspondent I don't know about that. Perhaps it is a bit tougher, but I've certianly never seen that reflected in the numbers of foriegn-born coworkers I've had. I had one heavy-clearance job back in the early '90s where nearly 1/3 of the software developers were born in communist countries! That particular job happened to be developing the software for a COMSEC (communications security...aka encryption) device for the NSA. Admittedly, none of them were foriegn nationals at the time. But my current job has 2 foriegn nationals working on it (inculding my supervisor); one A Brit and the other Canadian. As a matter of fact, my typing of this posting was interrupted by us comparing the pretty designs on their green cards. :-) My previous job had 3 foriegn nationals working on it in software (out of about 9); one Indian, one Lebaneese, and one southeast asian (I never asked where exactly). I currently have other collegues here (not working on the same project) who are from Pakistan, China, Japan, Africa, and Malaysia. This isn't in some huge cosmopolotian coastal city either, its in the middle of Oklahoma. The fact of the matter is that the USA is a *nation* of immigrants. Anyone who thinks we are somehow "against" the rest of the world doesn't really appreciate the situation. -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada? 2002-03-19 20:57 ` Ada? Ted Dennison @ 2002-03-20 2:08 ` Adrian Hoe 2002-03-21 15:12 ` Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread From: Adrian Hoe @ 2002-03-20 2:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison wrote: > > > The fact of the matter is that the USA is a *nation* of immigrants. > Anyone who thinks we are somehow "against" the rest of the world > doesn't really appreciate the situation. I know, I know... This isn't the right place to talk about politics here. But since Ted has posted his view, I just would like to comment. :) Ted is right that USA is a land of freedom and a nation of immigrants. There are many opportunities there if one is willing to leave his home and come to USA! I think everyone in this world appreciate this situation but disagree on USA political base. I have many many friends in USA, and that includes Americans, Jamaicans, Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :) I had got a consulting job (doing Ada) in USA couple years back but I did not take up the offer simply because it took too much hassle to get a working visa. But that did not stop me doing Ada. With my free spirit roaming and the current trend of globalization and with the Internet, the world is equivalent, I think. -- -- Adrian Hoe -- http://adrianhoe.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
* Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) 2002-03-20 2:08 ` Ada? Adrian Hoe @ 2002-03-21 15:12 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2002-03-21 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Adrian Hoe <byhoe@greenlime.com> wrote in message news:<3C97EF08.1AFB3D05@greenlime.com>... > Germans, Malaysians!, Chinese and Vietnamese and even CLA. I like > America but I personally disagree her politically. (I am not a > politician, ok? This is just my personal point of view :) Well, realise that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "America" isn't an entity that has one single coherent political view with which one can decide to disagree. There are about 300 million different politicial views in this country. Many of them are bound to fall on either side of yours. I noticed the other day that a poll was run in various middle eastern countries asking their views of America. To no one's great suprise, the overwhelming majority view was unfavorable. However, I was shocked to see that there was always at least a %20 favorable rating. While far from a majority, that's a significant portion of the populace. It shows that you can't really tar a whole country with having a single political view. There's diversity everywhere you look. -- T.E.D. Home - mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison) Homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-04-03 1:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 28+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2002-03-22 6:48 Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Christoph Grein 2002-03-22 12:37 ` Reinert Korsnes 2002-03-22 14:54 ` Ted Dennison 2002-03-22 15:44 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-22 17:58 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 18:10 ` Jim Rogers 2002-03-22 18:21 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-22 18:18 ` Pat Rogers 2002-03-23 0:14 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 12:32 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-25 9:03 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen 2002-03-25 10:17 ` Preben Randhol 2002-04-02 9:42 ` Frank 2002-03-26 0:53 ` Continentalizing the UK (still): Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Kent Paul Dolan 2002-03-30 10:26 ` Philip Anderson 2002-04-02 19:53 ` Divide NOT? (sort of still): " Kent Paul Dolan 2002-04-03 1:09 ` Jim Rogers 2002-03-22 18:34 ` Darren New 2002-03-22 18:45 ` Preben Randhol 2002-03-22 23:57 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 1:55 ` Jeffrey Carter 2002-03-22 19:24 ` Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Larry Hazel 2002-03-22 23:56 ` Waay OT - America Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 0:30 ` Darren New 2002-03-23 0:07 ` Georg Bauhaus 2002-03-23 15:10 ` tony 2002-03-23 15:16 ` Gary Scott -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2002-02-19 21:21 Ada? anymous 2002-02-24 3:23 ` Ada? Nick Roberts 2002-02-27 15:26 ` Ada? Enrico A. 2002-03-19 15:06 ` Ada? Colin Paul Gloster 2002-03-19 20:57 ` Ada? Ted Dennison 2002-03-20 2:08 ` Ada? Adrian Hoe 2002-03-21 15:12 ` Waay OT - America (was: Ada?) Ted Dennison
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