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From: "Jedi Tek'Unum" <jeditekunum@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: GNAT GPL is not shareware
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 08:12:38 -0800 (PST)
Date: 2015-01-31T08:12:38-08:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <445e0532-47a4-4801-b6b0-cfa4d6c68159@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <124890583444388011.130887nonlegitur-futureapps.invalid@reader80.eternal-september.org>

On Saturday, January 31, 2015 at 3:50:02 AM UTC-6, G. B. wrote:
> There are still only very few opportunities for promising academics
> and professionals from industry to cooperate on languages in
> groundbreaking ways, long term. Like there seems to have been when
> Ada did not exists yet, but was wanted. Outside the Big Corps (including
> MIT?)
> that are producing and controlling languages, there is little public
> consultation and cooperation (surprise?).
> Individualism disconnected, too strong the hope and the belief that venture
> capital plus market mechanism will produce a good solution from individual
> offerings. So, we are back to a multitude of incompatible and
> incomplete drafts, some of them surviving because of the the Big Corps
> and its followers.

Not just programming languages. Operating systems are in the same gutter.

I lived through the wild west days of Unix. Forked early. It took many years
for all the players to realize there was advantage to being compatible.
(Converged was never going to happen.) Standardization was moderately
successful and things are definitely better for it.

Then came Linux, which also forked and then converged somewhat less
on the standards.

Then OSX that also moved towards standards.

Leaving us with an "array of choices" that aren't all that vibrant. Yet
much source code is still filled with ifdef hell.

All this combined with the failure of capitalism has left operating systems
in a state of perpetual stagnation.

Really everything in software is stagnated. Hardware too. Everything about
computing has become commoditized. Commoditized chaos is not good.

So back to Ada... Much better foundation technology; no forks. If one were
building software "civilization" from scratch, is there a better language
to start? Would creating yet another programming language really add
anything?


  reply	other threads:[~2015-01-31 16:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-01-04 19:43 What is the best license to use for open source software? Hubert
2015-01-04 20:24 ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-04 20:50 ` David Botton
2015-01-04 21:27   ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-04 22:13     ` David Botton
2015-01-04 23:14       ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-05  0:56         ` David Botton
2015-01-05  1:20           ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-05  2:28             ` David Botton
2015-01-05 11:24               ` GNAT GPL is not shareware (was: Re: What is the best license to use for open source software?) Dirk Heinrichs
2015-01-05 11:38                 ` David Botton
2015-01-05 12:02                   ` GNAT GPL is not shareware Mark Carroll
2015-01-05 13:26                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06  0:39                       ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-01-06  0:48                         ` Hubert
2015-01-06  0:54                           ` David Botton
2015-01-06  4:02                             ` Hubert
2015-01-06 13:26                               ` Stefan.Lucks
2015-01-06 14:45                                 ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-06 14:51                                   ` David Botton
2015-01-06 20:14                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-06 20:59                                       ` David Botton
2015-01-07 23:36                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08  3:22                                           ` David Botton
2015-01-08  4:21                                             ` Hubert
2015-01-08  5:17                                               ` David Botton
2015-01-08  8:52                                             ` Simon Wright
2015-01-08 11:36                                               ` gnatmake to lose support for project files, gprbuild instead Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-09  2:05                                             ` GNAT GPL is not shareware Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09  2:40                                               ` Paul Rubin
2015-01-09  3:42                                                 ` David Botton
2015-01-09  6:50                                                   ` Paul Rubin
2015-01-09 17:17                                                   ` Mark Carroll
2015-01-09 20:08                                                     ` David Botton
2015-01-10 12:53                                                       ` Brian Drummond
2015-01-10  2:06                                                     ` Simon Clubley
2015-01-09  3:40                                               ` David Botton
2015-01-09  9:25                                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2015-01-06 15:36                                   ` G.B.
2015-01-06 17:14                                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06 14:46                                 ` David Botton
2015-01-06 15:09                                 ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 17:37                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 17:46                                     ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 20:52                                     ` Shark8
2015-01-06 21:15                                       ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-06 21:46                                         ` Shark8
2015-01-07 11:00                                           ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 12:23                                             ` sbelmont700
2015-01-07 13:03                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 13:46                                                 ` sbelmont700
2015-01-07 14:16                                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 22:27                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07 13:19                                               ` Thomas Løcke
2015-01-07 16:32                                             ` Shark8
2015-01-07 17:28                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 19:04                                                 ` Shark8
2015-01-07 22:58                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07 19:24                                                 ` Shark8
2015-01-07 21:45                                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 17:33                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 17:39                                                 ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 22:47                                               ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07 23:02                                                 ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-07 23:47                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08  8:14                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-08 10:55                                                   ` G.B.
2015-01-08 12:30                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-08 14:17                                                       ` G.B.
2015-01-08 16:54                                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-09 13:47                                                           ` G.B.
2015-01-09 22:03                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 23:39                                                               ` Shark8
2015-01-12 23:49                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-13  9:00                                                                   ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-13 15:51                                                                     ` Robert A Duff
2015-01-13 17:46                                                                       ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-13 21:19                                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-14  8:47                                                                       ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-14 16:22                                                                         ` Robert A Duff
2015-01-14 17:45                                                                           ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-14 23:43                                                                             ` Robert A Duff
2015-01-15  9:31                                                                               ` J-P. Rosen
2015-01-15 14:24                                                                       ` G.B.
2015-01-15 20:24                                                                         ` David Botton
2015-01-15 21:10                                                                           ` Simon Wright
2015-01-16  0:35                                                                             ` David Botton
2015-01-16  0:45                                                                               ` David Botton
2015-01-10  7:18                                                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-12 11:40                                                               ` G.B.
2015-01-12 13:21                                                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-12 14:52                                                                   ` G.B.
2015-01-12 15:22                                                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-13  0:00                                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-12 23:52                                                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09  2:33                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08 18:46                                                     ` Shark8
2015-01-08 20:51                                                       ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-09  2:20                                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 14:11                                                       ` G.B.
2015-01-09 21:33                                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 21:47                                                           ` Shark8
2015-01-09 22:07                                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-09 23:36                                                               ` Shark8
2015-01-12 23:37                                                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-07  9:15                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-01-09 10:27                                 ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-09 10:58                                   ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-09 16:39                                   ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-10 17:33                                     ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-10 17:44                                       ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-11  1:09                                       ` David Botton
2015-01-11 11:39                                         ` Arie van Wingerden
2015-01-11 17:42                                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-06 18:45                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-05 18:43                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-05 13:40                   ` G.B.
2015-01-05 13:59                   ` Brad Moore
2015-01-05 14:49                     ` G.B.
2015-01-05 15:11                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06 18:43                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-06 19:42                     ` David Botton
2015-01-06 20:22                       ` Ludovic Brenta
2015-01-07  1:59                       ` Hubert
2015-01-07  9:38                         ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-07 10:17                           ` Mark Carroll
2015-01-07 10:27                             ` Pascal Obry
2015-01-07 12:44                               ` David Botton
2015-01-07 15:39                               ` Dirk Heinrichs
2015-01-07 23:45                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-08  4:09                           ` Hubert
2015-01-08  8:57                             ` Simon Wright
2015-01-08 11:06                             ` G.B.
2015-01-05 18:43                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-06  0:44                   ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2015-01-29 12:58                   ` Lucretia
2015-01-29 14:25                     ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-30 11:20                       ` Brian Drummond
2015-01-29 19:12                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-29 20:57                       ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-30 16:48                         ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-30 20:15                           ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-30 21:03                             ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-31  8:16                               ` Dirk Heinrichs
2015-01-31 15:38                               ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-02 20:44                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-02 22:06                                   ` David Botton
2015-02-03 20:14                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-04  0:09                                       ` David Botton
2015-02-04  7:27                                         ` Pascal Obry
2015-02-04  8:00                                           ` Mark Carroll
2015-02-04  8:38                                             ` Pascal Obry
2015-02-04 12:27                                               ` G.B.
2015-02-04 12:48                                                 ` David Botton
2015-02-04 17:03                                               ` Björn Lundin
2015-02-04 10:15                                           ` Simon Wright
2015-02-04 12:30                                           ` David Botton
2015-02-02 22:13                                   ` Björn Lundin
2015-02-02 23:03                                   ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-03 20:36                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-03 22:54                                       ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-04 17:42                                         ` Björn Lundin
2015-02-04 19:41                                           ` Simon Wright
2015-02-04 22:49                                             ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-05  9:00                                               ` Simon Wright
2015-02-04 20:57                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-02-04 23:17                                           ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-04 23:57                                             ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-05  9:06                                               ` Simon Wright
2015-02-05 20:26                                                 ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-03 23:34                                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-02-03 23:55                                       ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-02-04  0:20                                         ` David Botton
2015-02-04 21:20                                         ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-31  9:49                             ` G.B.
2015-01-31 16:12                               ` Jedi Tek'Unum [this message]
2015-02-02 12:06                                 ` Marius Amado-Alves
2015-01-30 11:48                   ` Marius Amado-Alves
2015-01-30 12:10                     ` G.B.
2015-01-30 12:12                     ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-30 13:50                       ` Simon Wright
2015-01-30 15:48                         ` Björn Lundin
2015-01-30 17:13                         ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-30 17:34                           ` Simon Wright
2015-01-30 18:21                             ` Jeffrey Carter
2015-01-30 18:49                               ` Simon Wright
2015-01-30 19:46                                 ` Randy Brukardt
2015-01-31  9:02                                   ` Simon Wright
2015-02-01 21:17                                   ` Containers on small systems (Was: GNAT GPL is not shareware) Simon Wright
2015-02-05  9:40                                     ` Containers on small systems Simon Wright
2015-02-06 21:54                                       ` Simon Wright
2015-02-18 22:25                                         ` Simon Wright
2015-01-31 11:04                       ` GNAT GPL is not shareware Brian Drummond
2015-01-05 19:54               ` What is the best license to use for open source software? Michael B.
2015-01-05 20:45                 ` David Botton
2015-01-05 21:51                   ` sbelmont700
2015-01-05 13:36       ` G.B.
2015-01-05 14:54         ` David Botton
2015-01-05  3:47   ` Hubert
2015-01-05 15:56     ` Maciej Sobczak
2015-01-05 16:52       ` Tero Koskinen
2015-01-05 16:53       ` David Botton
2015-01-23 11:49 ` jeditekunum
2015-01-26 15:01   ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-26 15:37     ` David Botton
2015-01-26 22:46       ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-27  0:39         ` G.B.
2015-01-27  1:59           ` David Botton
2015-01-27  8:52           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29  7:03             ` Vadim Godunko
2015-01-29  8:50               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 10:25                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-01-29 12:31                   ` Vadim Godunko
2015-01-29 10:29                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2015-01-29 13:19                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 14:21                     ` G.B.
2015-01-29 15:06                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 14:41                     ` G.B.
2015-01-29 15:11                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2015-01-29 12:23                 ` G.B.
2015-01-29 12:47                   ` Vadim Godunko
2015-01-29 14:06                     ` G.B.
2015-01-27 22:44           ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-28  1:16             ` David Botton
2015-01-28 19:29               ` Jedi Tek'Unum
2015-01-27  6:18         ` Shark8
2015-01-27 11:18         ` Brian Drummond
2015-01-28 19:12           ` Jerry Petrey
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-01-09 21:58 GNAT GPL is not shareware Randy Brukardt
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