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From: <adaworks@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: What is wrong with Ada?
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:50:40 GMT
Date: 2007-04-21T18:50:40+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <42tWh.11820$YL5.9869@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: krrspgzz88g4$.15lzsnhxml4j.dlg@40tude.net


"Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> wrote in message 
news:krrspgzz88g4$.15lzsnhxml4j.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> It is because SW engineering is not engineering. And that is because CS is
> not much science. It rather sways between applied mathematics and "stamp
> collecting."
>
Dmitry, you are one of the contributors to this forum for whom
I have great respect.   On this point I must, if not outright disagree,
then clarify.

The fact that most programmers are not engineers is certainly correct.
However, this does not mean that those involved in software practice
cannot apply engineering principles, methods, and ideas to the development
of software.

There are clearly some points in software practice where we fall short of
being able to apply engineering.   On the other hand, there are a lot of
opportunities to take advantage of what we know about engineering.

Engineering is the largely about achieving predictable results and avoiding
failure.   It requires that we leverage knowledge from science, mathematics,
and previous engineering experience.  It also requires that we are able to
reason about and reconcile the trade-offs between conflicting constraints:
physical world constraints, logical constraints, economic constraints, etc.

In the 1970's and later in the 1980's Kenneth Kolence published his works
on "software physics."  This work, while good in many ways, also helps us
to understand the limitations of software from the perspective of natural
forces.   Natural forces are inherent in most engineering disciplines.

Kolence's work also opens the door to understanding with regard to what
we need in the way of a physics of software, if such a physics is ever to make
sense.   Physics is about relationships in behavior between different things.
We have the same issues in software.  But there are none of the inherent
constraints that the natural world imposes.

As software engineers, we need to define, create, and impose our own
constraints.   That is part of the engineering responsibility for a software
engineer.  At the component level, we have Design by Contract (Bertrand
Meyer), and other attempts at doing this kind of thing.   We are a long
way off from achieving the level of capability we eventually will require.

Nevertheless, there is a lot of good engineering practice in place for software,
even though most of it is ignored by programmers.  One reason I like Ada is
that it is designed so we can introduce some engineering into our designs.  Ada
is not yet at the place where we can do engineering at the level we could in a
physical process, but it is a step in the right direction.

Future software development tools will extend on those we now have and make
engineeering of software even more feasible.   Meanwhile, we have many options
for the application of engineering in the creation of software.  The fact that
we do not use them is the sad thing.

Finally, the shortcomings of current engineering practice simply mean that we
need to work harder to develop improved approaches to engineeering software
solutions in the future.

Richard Riehle 





  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-04-21 18:50 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 147+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-04-09 20:31 What is wrong with Ada? martinbishop
2007-04-10  1:14 ` Chip and Allie Orange
2007-04-10  8:32   ` gautier_niouzes
2007-04-10 18:21     ` Chip Orange
2007-04-10  1:15 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-04-10  9:02   ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-10 14:32     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 15:09       ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-10 15:39         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 16:12           ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-10 17:31             ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-10 18:24               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 18:28                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-10 20:22                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-11  9:40               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-11 11:20                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-11 23:45                 ` Brian May
2007-04-12  7:40                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-12 16:44                   ` kevin  cline
2007-04-12 17:32                     ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-12 16:46                   ` kevin  cline
2007-04-12 17:35                     ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-21  2:13                       ` adaworks
2007-04-21  9:49                         ` Simon Wright
2007-04-21 14:15                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-22  7:38                             ` adaworks
2007-04-23  1:33                               ` Brian May
2007-04-21 18:33                           ` adaworks
2007-04-12 18:11                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-16 14:25                       ` Bob Spooner
2007-04-16 14:50                         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-17  9:17                           ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-17 10:04                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-17 15:02                             ` Ed Falis
2007-04-17 15:48                               ` Pascal Obry
2007-04-17 20:53                                 ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-18  0:21                                 ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-04-18  8:16                                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-21  2:18                               ` adaworks
2007-04-12 18:47                   ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-12 19:39                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 19:54                       ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-12 20:41                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-14 19:56                         ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-13  0:16                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14  7:01                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-14 10:48                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 13:41                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 16:01                               ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 17:51                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-15 21:41                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 22:00                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-16  8:26                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-16  9:04                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-17  7:58                                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-17  9:27                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-17 10:46                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-17 10:48                                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-15 23:06                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-22 21:50                                   ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-23 19:26                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-23 20:39                                       ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-24  8:39                                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-24 16:43                                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-23 22:02                                       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-14 22:49                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 23:39                           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-23 21:16                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2007-04-23 21:21                           ` Ray Blaak
2007-04-23 22:15                             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12 21:18                     ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13  7:39                       ` Stuart
2007-04-13  9:05                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-13  0:10                     ` Brian May
2007-04-13  8:55                     ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-14 22:47                       ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 19:50                     ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-14 22:52                       ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-14 19:28                 ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-16  8:50                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-16  9:18                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-16  9:56                     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-16 16:45                     ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-17  9:05                       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2007-04-17 14:51                         ` Robert A Duff
2007-04-22  7:42                           ` adaworks
2007-04-10 18:15             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-20 16:34             ` adaworks
2007-04-10 19:44       ` Simon Wright
2007-04-10 20:43         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 22:02       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-10 22:15         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-11  8:59           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-20 16:25       ` adaworks
2007-04-20 20:35         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-21  5:51           ` adaworks
2007-04-25  0:10         ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-10 15:59     ` Jeffrey R. Carter
2007-04-10 16:31       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-10 18:08         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-11 23:05         ` kevin  cline
2007-04-12  7:55           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-12 10:43           ` Peter C. Chapin
2007-04-12 13:04             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-13 10:46               ` Harald Korneliussen
2007-04-13 16:25                 ` Adam Beneschan
2007-04-14 23:41                 ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-22  7:54           ` adaworks
2007-04-21 18:50         ` adaworks [this message]
2007-04-21 19:53           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
     [not found]             ` <H5EWh.6302$H_5.612@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>
2007-04-22  9:33               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2007-04-10 23:43     ` Brian May
2007-04-12 14:25       ` Bob Spooner
2007-04-13  0:22         ` Brian May
2007-04-23  2:25     ` Justin Gombos
2007-05-16  1:29     ` Adrian Hoe
2007-04-10  1:25 ` Brian May
2007-04-10  1:48   ` martinbishop
2007-04-10  8:33     ` gautier_niouzes
2007-04-10 14:58     ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-10 19:05       ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-10 20:27         ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12  1:18           ` Randy Brukardt
2007-04-12 13:02             ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-12  8:47           ` Ada vendor FAQ (was: What is wrong with Ada?) Ludovic Brenta
2007-04-11 15:21 ` What is wrong with Ada? Jason King
2007-04-11 17:53   ` tmoran
2007-04-12 18:55   ` Alexander E. Kopilovich
2007-04-13  2:59     ` Jason King
2007-04-13  9:03       ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-14 15:28         ` Jason King
2007-04-16 16:48           ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-21 12:56 ` AJAskey
2007-04-21 13:50   ` jimmaureenrogers
2007-04-21 14:46     ` AJAskey
2007-04-21 15:43       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-23  1:37         ` Brian May
2007-04-21 15:48       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-21 21:42       ` jimmaureenrogers
     [not found]         ` <vzwWh.2452$Ut6.1591@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
2007-04-22  0:53           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-25  0:20     ` Chad  R. Meiners
2007-04-25  9:57       ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-25 11:19         ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-25 11:54           ` Markus E Leypold
2007-04-25 13:24             ` Georg Bauhaus
2007-04-25 13:41             ` adaworks
2007-04-26  3:24       ` jimmaureenrogers
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