* About Ada @ 2004-10-18 5:49 Adrian Hoe 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Adrian Hoe @ 2004-10-18 5:49 UTC (permalink / raw) Thought you may be interested in this link: http://www.realtimearts.net/rt52/sosbos_ada.html Enjoy reading. -- Adrian Hoe http://adrianhoe.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
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* Re: About ADA... [not found] <n08okn$pt4$2@dont-email.me> @ 2015-10-22 17:00 ` David Botton 2015-10-26 17:18 ` miloslav.raus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: David Botton @ 2015-10-22 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Pascal to Ada Translator http://p2ada.sourceforge.net/ Good luck David Botton ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About ADA... [not found] <n08okn$pt4$2@dont-email.me> 2015-10-22 17:00 ` About ADA David Botton @ 2015-10-26 17:18 ` miloslav.raus 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: miloslav.raus @ 2015-10-26 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw) 2015/10/21 21:24:09 UTC+2 Ramine wrote: > Hello, > > > Ladies and gentlemen, i have looked carefully to ADA, > it is a nice programming language, but i have to be frank, the > ...... It might be the language barrier, but should what you have written be understood as: 1) you seriously expect that by implementing something in one language it should auto-magically translate itself to all other languages. 2) communities of (all|selected) prog. langs should observe everything you do instantly port everything you publish. 3) something entirely else (please do elaborate) I'm just baffled ... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* About Ada... @ 1997-11-30 0:00 Spiffy1two 1997-11-30 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Spiffy1two @ 1997-11-30 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I've been programming in Basic for a while, and now I'm trying to learn Turbo Pascal. What is Ada? It's the military's official programming language, right? But are there any advantages to learning Ada over other languages? Are most of you just Army Programmers? :) Sorry if I make myself sound stupid in this message but it's kind of hard writing a message about something you know nothing about... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-11-30 0:00 About Ada Spiffy1two @ 1997-11-30 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney 1997-12-17 0:00 ` John Apa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Matthew Heaney @ 1997-11-30 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <19971130215101.QAA07721@ladder01.news.aol.com>, spiffy1two@aol.com (Spiffy1two) wrote: >I've been programming in Basic for a while, and now I'm trying to learn Turbo >Pascal. What is Ada? Ada is the language of choice for building large, safety-critical systems. In fact, Ada is the only internationally standardized object-oriented programming language (though I understand the draft ISO C++ standard was recently accepted). You can get lots of info at the Ada home page. <http://www.adahome.com/> You can get a free, high-quality compiler, called GNAT, available on many platforms. <http://www.gnat.com/> <ftp://ftp.cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat/> >It's the military's official programming language, right? More like unofficial language. It used to be the case, when the Ada Mandate was in effect, that warfighting systems had to be built using Ada, unless accompanied by a waiver. The current policy is to select a programming language in the context of a defined, systems engineering process. But don't make the mistake of thinking that only military contractors use Ada. Quite the contrary. Many commercial shops use Ada, and Ada is the language of choice for railroad control, air traffic control, and other domains that have safety-critical requirements. For example, the new Boeing 777 is an all-Ada plane. The Ada home has a list of organizations using Ada. >But are there any advantages to learning Ada over other languages? Are >most of you just Army Programmers? :) This programmer is decidedly NOT an "army programmer." :-) I use Ada by choice, because it is the best technology available for writing real-time embedded systems. Although it is based on Pascal, it definately is NOT Pascal. It fixed the idiosyncrasies in that language, and extended it by adding support for programming-in-the-large, concurrency, and low-level programming. Learning a language isn't a zero-sum game, either. Just because you learn Ada doesn't mean you can't learn other languages too! Learn Ada and other languages, and you'll prove to yourself that it's better. Basically, if you'd rather get your work done, instead of spending all day in front of a debugger, then use Ada! And the compiler's free, so what are you waiting for? >Sorry if I make myself sound >stupid in this message but it's kind of hard writing a message about something >you know nothing about... There's no such thing as a dumb question. At least you approach new technology with an open mind. For too many programmers dismiss what they don't understand. You're willing to learn, which puts you light-years ahead of others! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Matthew Heaney Software Development Consultant <mailto:matthew_heaney@acm.org> (818) 985-1271 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-11-30 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney @ 1997-12-17 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Arthur Evans Jr 1997-12-18 0:00 ` Peter Hermann 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: John Apa @ 1997-12-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. And I believe that extends to the Airbus world also. John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-17 0:00 ` John Apa @ 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Arthur Evans Jr 1997-12-18 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-18 0:00 ` Peter Hermann 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Arthur Evans Jr @ 1997-12-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <677hcg$s04@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, "John Apa" <wy.hunter@mailexcite.com> wrote: > Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. Are you sure of this fact? I find it highly unlikely. Many aircraft Boeing still delivers were developed long before Ada was considered a practical solution -- or even before Ada existed. As rewriting in Ada would require new FAA certification, a daunting obstacle, I find it hard to believe that anyone would have done such an upgrade. Please check your facts and repost. Art Evans Arthur Evans Jr, PhD Ada Consulting evans@evans.pgh.pa.us ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Arthur Evans Jr @ 1997-12-18 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Paul H. Whittington 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: John Apa @ 1997-12-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I'm sure sorry if I threatened your belief system, but since I work for the company that does the work for most of Boeing's AC I think I can safely make that assertion. The 777, 737, 747-400, V-22, and CH-47 all run on a diet of Ada. New planes ship with Ada, and the retrofit market is mostly Ada also. The guis are c or VAPs. We have hundreds of Ada engineers working on Boeing, and even Airbus, products. So start believing. I'm currently developing under DO-178B (in Ada95 even!), the FAA's new standard for flight software. It's very daunting, but most new software has to be recertified anyway so having it in Ada isn't a big deal. Much of the earlier (pre-84) SW was written in PL/1 and was ported to Ada. No, not the best plan, but that's how we got to where we are. Much of the code has been redesigned since then in Ada. You sound like you're stating that it'd be harder to certify with Ada than anything else, that's just plain false. It also sounds like you're stating that planes are never upgraded to more recent flight management/control systems, wrong again. Airframes are around for quite a while and in this market at least they are upgraded to increase safety and efficiency. Both noble causes. The FAA and world authorities are coming out with new regs for flying and that means better avionics are required to keep everyone safe. Something I strongly believe in when I'm at 30K Feet. You could have checked these facts too, it's certainly not a secret. I posted this information informally to show that Ada is not just a military language. It is being accepted commercially where safety and reliability are critical. Please check your beliefs and repost. John Apa Arthur Evans Jr <evans@evans.pgh.pa.us> wrote in article <evans-1712970812050001@ppp21.s8.pgh.net>... > In article <677hcg$s04@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, > "John Apa" <wy.hunter@mailexcite.com> wrote: > > > Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. > > Are you sure of this fact? I find it highly unlikely. Many aircraft > Boeing still delivers were developed long before Ada was considered a > practical solution -- or even before Ada existed. As rewriting in Ada > would require new FAA certification, a daunting obstacle, I find it hard > to believe that anyone would have done such an upgrade. > > Please check your facts and repost. > > Art Evans > > Arthur Evans Jr, PhD > Ada Consulting > evans@evans.pgh.pa.us > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-18 0:00 ` John Apa @ 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Paul H. Whittington 1997-12-19 0:00 ` John Apa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Paul H. Whittington @ 1997-12-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John can you give any comparisons regarding development and maintenance, in terms of cost and time to market, between Ada and any alternatives that have been attempted? John Apa wrote: > I'm sure sorry if I threatened your belief system, but since I work for the > company that does the work for most of Boeing's AC I think I can safely > make that assertion. The 777, 737, 747-400, V-22, and CH-47 all run on a > diet of Ada. New planes ship with Ada, and the retrofit market is mostly > Ada also. The guis are c or VAPs. We have hundreds of Ada engineers working > on Boeing, and even Airbus, products. So start believing. > > I'm currently developing under DO-178B (in Ada95 even!), the FAA's new > standard for flight software. It's very daunting, but most new software has > to be recertified anyway so having it in Ada isn't a big deal. Much of the > earlier (pre-84) SW was written in PL/1 and was ported to Ada. No, not the > best plan, but that's how we got to where we are. Much of the code has been > redesigned since then in Ada. > > You sound like you're stating that it'd be harder to certify with Ada than > anything else, that's just plain false. It also sounds like you're stating > that planes are never upgraded to more recent flight management/control > systems, wrong again. Airframes are around for quite a while and in this > market at least they are upgraded to increase safety and efficiency. Both > noble causes. > > The FAA and world authorities are coming out with new regs for flying and > that means better avionics are required to keep everyone safe. Something I > strongly believe in when I'm at 30K Feet. > > You could have checked these facts too, it's certainly not a secret. I > posted this information informally to show that Ada is not just a military > language. It is being accepted commercially where safety and reliability > are critical. > > Please check your beliefs and repost. > John Apa > > Arthur Evans Jr <evans@evans.pgh.pa.us> wrote in article > <evans-1712970812050001@ppp21.s8.pgh.net>... > > In article <677hcg$s04@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, > > "John Apa" <wy.hunter@mailexcite.com> wrote: > > > > > Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. > > > > Are you sure of this fact? I find it highly unlikely. Many aircraft > > Boeing still delivers were developed long before Ada was considered a > > practical solution -- or even before Ada existed. As rewriting in Ada > > would require new FAA certification, a daunting obstacle, I find it hard > > to believe that anyone would have done such an upgrade. > > > > Please check your facts and repost. > > > > Art Evans > > > > Arthur Evans Jr, PhD > > Ada Consulting > > evans@evans.pgh.pa.us > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Paul H. Whittington @ 1997-12-19 0:00 ` John Apa 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: John Apa @ 1997-12-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) As far as I know we've only done Ada so there's not much comparison. Some is being done by other divisions but it's not a major part of the market place at this point. Ada works very well, and is being bid for all future projects with the exception being GUI's and the like which are usually c. The ada tools are out that and they are improving in quality and number everyday. The only real comparison that I know of is the one done by the VP at Rational and available at their web site. It compares the cost of their tool development in both c and ada with the same teams, very enlightening. Paul H. Whittington <paul@srv.net> wrote in article <3498B3C8.432910F9@srv.net>... > John can you give any comparisons regarding development and > maintenance, in terms of cost and time to market, between Ada > and any alternatives that have been attempted? > > > John Apa wrote: > > > I'm sure sorry if I threatened your belief system, but since I work for the > > company that does the work for most of Boeing's AC I think I can safely > > make that assertion. The 777, 737, 747-400, V-22, and CH-47 all run on a > > diet of Ada. New planes ship with Ada, and the retrofit market is mostly > > Ada also. The guis are c or VAPs. We have hundreds of Ada engineers working > > on Boeing, and even Airbus, products. So start believing. > > > > I'm currently developing under DO-178B (in Ada95 even!), the FAA's new > > standard for flight software. It's very daunting, but most new software has > > to be recertified anyway so having it in Ada isn't a big deal. Much of the > > earlier (pre-84) SW was written in PL/1 and was ported to Ada. No, not the > > best plan, but that's how we got to where we are. Much of the code has been > > redesigned since then in Ada. > > > > You sound like you're stating that it'd be harder to certify with Ada than > > anything else, that's just plain false. It also sounds like you're stating > > that planes are never upgraded to more recent flight management/control > > systems, wrong again. Airframes are around for quite a while and in this > > market at least they are upgraded to increase safety and efficiency. Both > > noble causes. > > > > The FAA and world authorities are coming out with new regs for flying and > > that means better avionics are required to keep everyone safe. Something I > > strongly believe in when I'm at 30K Feet. > > > > You could have checked these facts too, it's certainly not a secret. I > > posted this information informally to show that Ada is not just a military > > language. It is being accepted commercially where safety and reliability > > are critical. > > > > Please check your beliefs and repost. > > John Apa > > > > Arthur Evans Jr <evans@evans.pgh.pa.us> wrote in article > > <evans-1712970812050001@ppp21.s8.pgh.net>... > > > In article <677hcg$s04@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, > > > "John Apa" <wy.hunter@mailexcite.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. > > > > > > Are you sure of this fact? I find it highly unlikely. Many aircraft > > > Boeing still delivers were developed long before Ada was considered a > > > practical solution -- or even before Ada existed. As rewriting in Ada > > > would require new FAA certification, a daunting obstacle, I find it hard > > > to believe that anyone would have done such an upgrade. > > > > > > Please check your facts and repost. > > > > > > Art Evans > > > > > > Arthur Evans Jr, PhD > > > Ada Consulting > > > evans@evans.pgh.pa.us > > > > > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-17 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Arthur Evans Jr @ 1997-12-18 0:00 ` Peter Hermann 1997-12-19 0:00 ` Robert S. White 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Peter Hermann @ 1997-12-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John Apa (wolfmountainranch@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. And > I believe that extends to the Airbus world also. Having in mind a recent speech of an Airbus manager displaying his level of intelligence in a German TV interview I have my doubts. -- Peter Hermann Tel:+49-711-685-3611 Fax:3758 ph@csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de Pfaffenwaldring 27, 70569 Stuttgart Uni Computeranwendungen Team Ada: "C'mon people let the world begin" (Paul McCartney) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-18 0:00 ` Peter Hermann @ 1997-12-19 0:00 ` Robert S. White 1997-12-20 0:00 ` Ralph Paul 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Robert S. White @ 1997-12-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <67bijm$d3a@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>, ica2ph@alpha1.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de says... > >John Apa (wolfmountainranch@worldnet.att.net) wrote: >> Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. And >> I believe that extends to the Airbus world also. > >Having in mind a recent speech of an Airbus manager displaying >his level of intelligence in a German TV interview I have my doubts. I think John's point is that the major manufacturers of avionics for the commercial air transport market use Ada now and have used Ada for the last ten years in all new products. Since I suspect (thanks to deja news) that he works for a different company than I, that would make at least two out of the biggest three avionics companies in the world. Haven't seen postings from anyone from the third company. _____________________________________________________________________ Robert S. White -- An embedded systems software engineer e-mail reply to reverse of: ia us lib cedar-rapids crpl shift2 whiter ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: About Ada... 1997-12-19 0:00 ` Robert S. White @ 1997-12-20 0:00 ` Ralph Paul 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Ralph Paul @ 1997-12-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert S. White wrote: > > In article <67bijm$d3a@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>, > ica2ph@alpha1.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de says... > > > >John Apa (wolfmountainranch@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > >> Ada is used on almost every AC that Boeing delivers, not just the 777. And > >> I believe that extends to the Airbus world also. > > > >Having in mind a recent speech of an Airbus manager displaying > >his level of intelligence in a German TV interview I have my doubts. > > I think John's point is that the major manufacturers of avionics > for the commercial air transport market use Ada now and have used > Ada for the last ten years in all new products. Since I suspect > (thanks to deja news) that he works for a different company than I, > that would make at least two out of the biggest three avionics > companies in the world. Haven't seen postings from anyone from > the third company. Coming from a european "high performance aircraft" point of view, I can say Ada has even replaced older languages in the last years and at least on the techincal side of things there is no change of this trend insight. Actually the Ada minded people are having an easier time now because a.) compilers have become more reliable and performant b.) experince in implementing real time has shown the benefits of Ada c.) the systems have become alot more complex For example the X-31 flight control system was done in Jovial. However if the program should ever be reactivated it is very likely that the fcs will be done in Ada. Ralph Paul repaul@ibm.net (FCS engineer) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-10-26 17:18 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-10-18 5:49 About Ada Adrian Hoe [not found] <n08okn$pt4$2@dont-email.me> 2015-10-22 17:00 ` About ADA David Botton 2015-10-26 17:18 ` miloslav.raus -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 1997-11-30 0:00 About Ada Spiffy1two 1997-11-30 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney 1997-12-17 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Arthur Evans Jr 1997-12-18 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Paul H. Whittington 1997-12-19 0:00 ` John Apa 1997-12-18 0:00 ` Peter Hermann 1997-12-19 0:00 ` Robert S. White 1997-12-20 0:00 ` Ralph Paul
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