Re: 7E7 Flight Controls Electronics

[Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>]

I don't deny that Ada is being used. After all, I'm using it. ;-) Sure 
its out there, but any reasonable assessment of the situation is going 
to conclude that at best Ada is a niche language. The bulk of software 
development is being done in some other language besides Ada. This is a 
shame since Ada is such a good language that it ought to survive, 
flourish and have a much broader appeal.

But so long as it only has this little corner of the market, it is in 
danger of drying up and blowing away. You've seen the comments by other 
folks here who have tried to persuade their bosses that Ada is the right 
answer. The reaction is either "Not *that* dead, old, failure!" or 
"What's Ada???" The only way Ada gets around that problem is by finding 
a wider market and having a wider appeal. It dies otherwise. Slowly, to 
be sure, but ultimately it dies. Do you want to see that happen? I 
don't. I'd like to see it flourish so my job skills don't become an 
anachronism. :-)

For Ada to get over that difficulty of mental perceptions on the part of 
too many language choosers, (or their legitimate concerns about tying 
their project to something that might be on the way out) it needs to 
build a larger base. How would *you* suggest that happen? (Or would you 
suggest that it doesn't need to happen? Or would you suggest that Ada is 
having a Renaissance and new customers are flocking to the door? I'd 
like to see some evidence of thousands of new products being built in 
Ada and hundreds of thousands of new programming jobs going to Ada - but 
check the want ads. Its not happening yet, is it?)

To attract new users, Ada needs to do something to give them a reason to 
look at it seriously - like more leverage than they can get with Java or 
C++ or whatever else is the hip thing at the moment. To overcome the 
ocean of objections that get raised against it, Ada needs to show more 
commercial success - like when someone builds a product using Ada and 
successfully sells it. The commercial successes are critical or there 
isn't anybody out there to buy compilers and keep compiler writers alive 
and there isn't anybody out there to hire Ada programmers and encourage 
an interest in learning the language.

That and I guess I've just become fed up with how we constantly hear 
things in this forum to the effect that "Ada is so obviously technically 
superior and is so obviously much more productive that managers who 
don't pick Ada are all just a bunch of idiots or they're downright 
corrupt and evil..." (Sounds a lot like the objections people raise 
against the politicians they don't like. "I'm so *obviously* right that 
anyone who disagrees with me *must* be stupid or evil.") Its time to put 
up or shut up - and the rest of the programming world knows it. We live 
in a free country with a free market. If Ada is so great then go out 
there and build something wonderful with it and out-compete the 
evil/stupid managers who won't see the sweet light of reason and pick 
the "obviously" superior technology? Or admit that Ada doesn't really 
bring enough leverage to the table to truly make a difference in the 
bottom line of a business. Or admit to a lack of enough courage and 
faith in the superiority of Ada to put some money and time on the line 
to prove it.

So Ed, I'd guess I'd say to you that I know that Ada is being used in 
the 7E7 and elsewhere and I'm really glad that it has some market there. 
I'd like to see it have more of a market so it has long-term survival 
and prosperity prospects. But this thread got started with a complaint 
about how another stupid program manager went and picked C++ and it got 
me on my soapbox. Its time for people who believe in Ada's superiority 
to quit complaining about other people's choices and actually start 
*doing* something with it that builds real-world products that sell and 
make money.

MDC


Ed Falis wrote:
> 
> I don't get it Marin (well, actually I do).  I presented a certain 
> amount  of evidence that on the program in question,  that started this 
> thread,  Ada will be used fairly widely, for good program management 
> reasons.  Yet  you keep repeating that it's not happening, hasn't 
> happened, won't  happen.  What gives?  Have you got so caught up on the 
> soapbox that you  don't see where Ada is reasonably successful, because 
> of the places it's  not?
> 
> You and I know each other for a lot of years, and understand each other 
> to  be fairly reasonable people, right?  So why ignore reality in this 
> case  for the sake of ideology?
> 
> - Ed


-- 
======================================================================
Marin David Condic
I work for: http://www.belcan.com/
My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm

Send Replies To: m   o   d   c @ a   m   o   g
                    c   n   i       c   .   r

     "Face it ladies, its not the dress that makes you look fat.
     Its the FAT that makes you look fat."

         --  Al Bundy

======================================================================