Re: Ada used in General Aviation (GA) applications?

[Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>]

I've seen Ada used by defense contractors in more workstation-ish 
applications doing network communication, etc. That's not really 
"Embedded". In what *is* "embedded", it is typically restricted to the 
larger processors in defense related applications. In most commercial 
stuff and most of the smaller processor arenas (making up most of the 
"embedded" market) Ada gets ranked behind "other" in language used to 
implement. C is typically the language of choice - mostly because that's 
what comes with the development kit. However you slice it, Ada is near 
zero in utilization in the embedded community and is basically hated and 
derided - or simply ignored. My guess is that vendors are not going to 
make much money off of that market and that trying to cater to it is too 
expensive.


I don't know who ACT's customers are, but the last time I checked they 
were not selling a compiler that is aimed at "embedded" systems. They 
market a compiler that mostly wants to run on top of Unix and isn't 
targeted to popular embedded processors. Perhaps it *can* be utilized in 
some embedded/realtime applications, but I don't think they go out of 
their way to try to make a kit to do so. (Perhaps they'd like to bid on 
the next engine control I'll be working on?) So I'm guessing that there 
must be *some* usage of Ada in areas that are not what most people would 
call "embedded".

I think we don't disagree on the fact that Ada is not highly utilized in 
anything outside of the Defense/Realtime market and that this market is 
dwindling. We might even agree as to some of the reasons why Ada is 
losing out. We probably even agree that Ada is like that tree with the 
Dutch Elm Disease - dying but not entirely gone yet.

Where we disagree is in what to do about it. You're convinced it is 
doomed and hopeless - why don't you just give up and spend your time on 
something you *do* think has a future? (I'm not trying to be mean here - 
if you really believe it is hopeless, you would likely be better off 
focusing in on something you *do* believe has a future.) I'm convinced 
that it could be turned around and perhaps Ada could find a market in 
which it could thrive - but it needs a new strategy to do so. So far, I 
don't see the vested interests in Ada calling for a meeting to discuss 
what market they'd like to shoot for and how best to address it with a 
new strategy. (I could probably host it if they asked real nice. :-)

If Ada really *is* better and *does* produce better products at a lesser 
cost, then perhaps it could be a competitive advantage in some market. 
That means that the believers in Ada should try to utilize Ada in some 
manner to build some end-product and sell it. We've got compilers. We've 
got some tools & libraries. (They could obviously be better integrated 
and more standardized) Why not dream up some useful product and go build 
it using Ada? Start *selling* something that uses Ada as a component and 
you generate compiler business to keep the likes of ACT, RR, Aonix, et 
alia, in the Ada-making business.

MDC



Randy Brukardt wrote:
> 
> You said: "The embedded market already hates Ada with the white hot
> intensity of a thousand suns for a variety of historical reasons." And I
> pointed out that the only significant use of Ada is in embedded systems.
> That means either your statement is wrong, or Ada is doomed - in fact it is
> already dead, like a tree with Dutch Elm Disease. The leaves haven't found
> out yet.
> 
> Both RRS and Aonix spent a lot of effort trying to push Ada into more
> mainstream programming. Neither company was successful, and both companies
> have pretty much given up. Besides, non-embedded programming is on its way
> to extinction anyway - those projects and jobs are rapidly moving to very
> low-cost countries. Obviously, quality isn't even on the radar.
> 
> Ada's only chance for further expansion is in various kinds of embedded
> systems (bigger ones; Ada isn't really suited for single-board computers).
> 

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Marin David Condic
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