Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language)

[Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>]

Keep in mind that while Java has its market, not everything is suited to 
a virtual machine, so its not as if Java and Ada are two interchangeable 
parts.

Going along those lines, you say "if it cannot be done in Ada, there is 
a good chance that it SHOULDN'T be done at all" - I'd have to observe 
that there are lots of things that Ada does not bring to the table that 
would preclude it from playing in certain markets.

Obviously, there is the virtual machine aspect. While there was a 
compiler for the JVM, I don't think it is supported any more and there 
isn't much demand for it. Lack of a good quality compiler for the JVM is 
going to keep it from consideration where the JVM is a critical part.

Then there is the issue of a GUI. Java comes with a GUI as an integral 
part. Ada does not. There are a few GUI-building kits for Ada, but not a 
standard one. So Java gets to come to the table saying "Here's your 
language and here's your GUI and all the Java developers know how to use 
both and they both work together in a variety of places..." Ada comes to 
the table saying "Here's your language and you can go find the GUI of 
your choice and hope it works with your compiler and maybe it won't have 
as many features as our competitors, and you can spend time to train up 
your programmers in how to use it and....."

Add to that the presence of available class libraries and Ada comes up 
short there as well. While Ada does have some standard libraries and it 
has various open source libraries available out on the net and vendors 
provide libraries of their own invention, its not the same as someone 
looking at what Java provides just by virtue of being Java.

So Ada often starts out several yards back from the starting line when 
getting considered for a project. People in the business of making 
software are not there to promote some specific language or even some 
set of programming virtues. They're in it to make money and so issues 
like time to market or cost of development start becoming factors that 
make Ada a difficult choice to justify.

I understand the notion of saying "I'll become a Java expert so I can 
pick and choose from a large variety of jobs and locations." I think 
that is something that puts off a lot of developers who might otherwise 
consider Ada. But in order for there to be more Ada jobs, Ada has to 
find its way into more businesses & industries. That can only happen if 
Ada can offer something *more* than is currently there with Java, C++, 
etc. (Why should someone switch to Ada unless they can get everything 
they already have and then some?) And Ada zealots could go out and start 
businesses of their own selling something written in Ada which would 
have the effect of creating jobs and encouraging emulation of a 
successful model.

MDC



Beth Bruzan wrote:
> I recently[read today] ,after approximately 7 years of not reading, have
> started reading this newsgroup again.....   I should mention that I am a
> senior Java Architect, as well as an Ada zealot.  I recommend Ada to anyone
> that is trying to get into OO-based software engineering.  Most of them
> ignore this recommendation.  Some (I will call them the enlightened ones),
> actually take it to heart, and sit down with GNAT, and the Ada95 RM.  And
> start asking me questions.   I put it to this group (and anyone else that is
> interested), that THESE apprentices quickly progress in abilities.  I would
> gladly compare one of these pupils to an "experienced" Java (and possibly
> C++) developer, because they actually understand what, and why things need
> to be done, and designed well.
> 
> After reading the original posting, I was about to sit down and do what
> Ludovic has done so nicely.  (luckily, I read more because I just don't have
> the time at the moment)
> 
> Indeed, Java does have some niceties ( such as the automatic garbage
> collection, run-time optimization, etc).  However, with proper design and
> implementation, Ada does not need garbage collection, and optimizations can
> be done (and for most compilers do) at compile-time.  Admittedly, Ada does
> have to be recompiled for each platform, but then it runs without the need
> for a virtual machine, and is inherently more efficient.  On top of this,
> you can develop Ada that compiles to bytecode, and runs well on virtual
> machines.
> 
> What is comes down to, for me, is the ease of finding a job in any specific
> location.  This allows me to live where I want, when I want.  The current
> call for Java is quite large, so I tend to work in Java.
> 
> In short, I would say that if it cannot be done in Ada, there is a good
> chance that it SHOULDN'T be done at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW  Thank you again Ludovic.
> 


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Marin David Condic
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