Re: GUI was Re: why Ada is so unpopular ?

[Marin David Condic <nobody@noplace.com>]

XML is one possible route to get there and I could see your reasons for 
wanting to go that way. I'd have no objections to basing a GUI on some 
form of XML and possibly using some existing tools to do the graphics 
driving. The only real issue is that you are too far ahead of the 
problem. First there needs to be a general *will* to have a GUI for Ada 
that is going to be adopted and shipped with compilers.

So far, there seems to be a certain amount of vague desire in the 
community that Ada ought to have some extended capabilities by way of 
some kind of library of useful stuff - a GUI being part of it. However, 
the reaction can be summarized this way:

The ARG & other "Official" keepers of what it means to be Ada don't have 
the time and/or desire to take on some kind of library/GUI. If they did, 
they'd want something very formal and mostly a specification with "Every 
Vendor For Himself" being the rule of implementation. It could take 
*years* before we'd see anything come about this way.

The vendors have an interest level asymptotically approaching zero. 
*Maybe* if something were to come out of a SIGAda working group and 
*maybe* if it were to achieve some measure of widespread adoption, they 
*might* get on board after the train has already left the station. (In 
other words, if you do all the work and take all the risk and somehow 
make it a success, they'll be glad to take over your success.) Not much 
chance of a strong push coming from that direction.

Various owners of existing libraries of stuff are going "Ohhh! Pick Me! 
Pick Meeeeee!!!!!" Not necessarily a bad idea - select some existing 
library/GUI and start adapting it and adding on to it. But no vendor or 
SIGAda body is standing up saying "O.K. We'll select XYZ and start 
making it the 'Official' Ada library/GUI" Each of these existing 
libraries has its followers and hence there's no clear-cut winner to 
adopt. In the abscence of an existing winner, neither the vendors nor 
SIGAda wants to stand up and dictate an answer, so there is perpetual 
stalemate.

Various enthusiasts have suggested "Well let's go build one from 
bottom-dead-center and *make* it the library of choice..." - a noble 
ambition but one that *at best* would take a really long time to 
accomplish so long as nobody is getting paid to do it. Even if it did 
get built, there are no vendors standing in the wings saying "Yeah, 
we'll go adopt it and distribute it..." - not unless it is already a 
booming success (in which case, they'll gladly take it over to enhance 
their product & make money from it.)

So while I could easily imagine some scenario in which a reasonably 
portable GUI could be added to Ada - perhaps using XML as a supporting 
technology - I just don't see the will to do so forming up anywhere that 
would make it come about.

MDC


Robert C. Leif wrote:
> Since the subject of this discussion is GUI's, I changed the subject.  Since
> we lack both the resources and probably the human engineering expertise to
> develop a GUI, instead of inventing a new GUI for Ada; why not use a
> language neutral technology?  XML has many sublanguages that are
> appropriate.  In fact, it would be possible to use presently existing
> technology like GtkAda or better yet CLAW to create the simplest version of
> Scalable Vector Graphics or a thick binding to an existing version, such as
> that available from Adobe. This could then serve as a foundation to host
> XForms. 
> 
> In fact by using XML schemas and Ada packages that have identical
> data-types, one might have two versions of the same GUI.  The first would be
> an XML version powered as much as possible by Ada and the second would be an
> Ada version with minimal code in other languages.  In short, the simplest
> approach is to use the designs and data-types from the World Wide Web
> Consortium, www.w3.org
> 
> If successful, this might even increase the popularity of Ada.  Ada is now
> worse than unpopular; most of the programming community does not realize
> that it exists; and the others think that Ada is only useful for military
> projects.  Parenthetically, the real reason Ada is not popular is that we do
> not have a hero who has become filthy rich using it. 
> 
> Bob Leif

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Marin David Condic
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