From: "Ken Garlington" <Ken.Garlington@computer.org>
Subject: Re: Interresting thread in comp.lang.eiffel
Date: 2000/07/16
Date: 2000-07-16T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3iqc5.597$zW2.27084@news.flash.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 8kt1cn$38mus$2@ID-9852.news.cis.dfn.de
"Joachim Durchholz" <joachim dot durchholz@halstenbach.com> wrote in message
news:8kt1cn$38mus$2@ID-9852.news.cis.dfn.de...
> Ken Garlington <Ken.Garlington@computer.org> wrote:
> >
> > So what you're saying is: without specific knowledge in this domain,
> > you're finding it difficult to understand how to write the proper
> > contract?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Would it be fair to say that if you were a software engineer analyzing
> > an existing module contract, and you were given this figure, you might
> > also have difficulties?
>
> Yes. The paper assumes a lot of knowledge that I simply do not have. I'd
> be unable to distill this into a specification, whether using assertions
> or any other method.
Exactly, and this is something that a lot of people have difficulty
understanding in the Ariane 5 case. Not to over-generalize, but a lot of
programmers work in fields where they can have direct understanding of the
domain. For example, if you work on a game program or web site, you probably
have some expertise in the domain - you have played video games or used web
sites before.
It's much more difficult for people working on a big project like Ariane 5.
The problem is that we aren't dealing with a stand-alone system -- a single
domain. We're dealing with a lot of interlocking domains (airframe,
propulsion, flight control, avionics....) which require a number of
engineering specialties (software, hardware, aerospace, mechanical...) to
communicate with each other across a number of organizational and
geographical boundaries. It's extremely easy for information to not be
communicated effectively -- like a changed flight profile.
It occurs to me that people might be interested in similar cases in the
aerospace world where the failure to communicate has led to catastrophic
accidents. Here's a few references:
http://www.flash.net/~kennieg/titan/titan_1996.html
http://www.flash.net/~kennieg/titan/titan_1999.html
http://www.flash.net/~kennieg/x31/x31.htm
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2000-07-16 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <8ipvnj$inc$1@wanadoo.fr>
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2000-07-13 0:00 ` Interresting thread in comp.lang.eiffel Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Marin D. Condic
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-16 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Marin D. Condic
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <3963DEBF.79C40BF1@eiffel.com>
[not found] ` <2LS85.6100$7%3.493920@news.flash.net>
[not found] ` <8k5aru$1odtq$1@ID-9852.news.cis.dfn.de>
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[not found] ` <8k8pk2$20cab$1@ID-9852.news.cis.dfn.de>
[not found] ` <_dS95.9945$7%3.666180@news.flash.net>
2000-07-12 0:00 ` David K Allen
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Bob Allen
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Bob Allen
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-14 0:00 ` carr_tom
2000-07-18 0:00 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Marin D. Condic
2000-07-12 0:00 ` David Gillon
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-13 0:00 ` David Gillon
2000-07-13 0:00 ` David K Allen
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Bob Allen
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-18 0:00 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-18 0:00 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
2000-07-19 0:00 ` David Gillon
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-12 0:00 ` David K Allen
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Howard W. LUDWIG
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-18 0:00 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Bob Allen
2000-07-12 0:00 ` David K Allen
[not found] ` <Rnt95.78 <L6vb5.16117$7%3.988701@news.flash.net>
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Nick Williams
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[not found] ` <396B4A68.458FA3BC@maths.unine.ch>
[not found] ` <u6hp4i16$GA.283@cpmsnbbsa07>
2000-07-11 0:00 ` cropt
2000-07-11 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Peter Amey
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Peter Amey
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Bob Allen
2000-07-12 0:00 ` David Starner
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
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[not found] ` <oqog45g1j0.fsf@premise.demon.co.uk>
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2000-07-11 0:00 ` Aspects (Re: Interesting thread in comp.lang.eiffel) tom
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
2000-07-12 0:00 ` tom
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Steve Merrick
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Frank Mitchell
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Jubilation
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Frank Mitchell
2000-07-15 0:00 ` Jubilation
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Design by Contract (was " David Kristola
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Howard W. LUDWIG
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Greg
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Eirik Mangseth
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-14 0:00 ` David Kristola
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Matthew J Heaney
2000-07-16 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-17 0:00 ` David Kristola
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-25 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Greg
2000-07-12 0:00 ` Matthew J Heaney
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Eirik Mangseth
2000-07-18 0:00 ` Interesting thread in comp.lang.eiffel Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
2000-07-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <i4k95.7512$7%3.571616@n <397D8CC3.BB0C9001@ix.netcom.com>
2000-07-29 0:00 ` Writing better software was: Design by Contract (was Re: Interesting thread in comp.lang.eiffel) Kent Paul Dolan
2000-07-29 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-31 0:00 ` Stefan Skoglund
2000-08-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-08-01 0:00 ` Kent Paul Dolan
2000-08-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-31 0:00 ` Simon Brady
2000-07-30 0:00 ` John Magness
2000-08-01 0:00 ` Simon Brady
2000-08-01 0:00 ` Simon Brady
2000-08-04 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
2000-08-04 0:00 ` Simon Brady
2000-08-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
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2000-07-12 0:00 ` Interresting thread in comp.lang.eiffel Robert I. Eachus
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
2000-07-23 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-24 0:00 ` David Gillon
2000-07-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-24 0:00 ` swhalen
2000-07-24 0:00 ` David Gillon
[not found] ` <39688CA2.31B2A7EF@acm.com>
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Marin D. Condic
[not found] ` <8k8p8m$1upjk$1@ID-9852.news.cis.dfn.de>
[not found] ` <0cS95.9944$7%3.667682@news.flash.net>
2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <39573CAB.BB90DF92@gecm.com>
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2000-07-13 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-14 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
2000-07-16 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
2000-07-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington [this message]
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2000-07-18 0:00 ` Interesting " Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
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