From: smize@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Samuel Mize)
Subject: Re: "Subtract C, add Ada"
Date: 24 Jan 1995 08:11:11 -0600
Date: 1995-01-24T08:11:11-06:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3g31pv$4ts@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3frqpg$re5@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu
In article <3frqpg$re5@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
David O'Brien <dobrien@seas.gwu.edu> wrote:
...
>C was designed in the 70's. ...
>So, I think that "compilers *couldn't* optimize code" may be an over
>generalization.
My apologies for a loose statement.
I meant to address the observed beliefs of people who feel
that they can write more-efficient code in C. Generally,
they hand-write code-level optimizations; they can see it,
so they believe in it. They don't expect the compiler to
optimize much. Some of them don't *want* the compiler to
optimize; they're using side effects and "slick tricks" to
save three instructions per hundred. Of course, a good
optimizer would do far better for them, but they can't see that
unless they meter their program, optimize it, and meter it
again. Why bother with what when they *know* that it's more
efficient code...
Of course, the source code doesn't run. The object code runs.
...
>You are making a *major* assumption ...
>Again, you really are thinking with ...
Your entire post is right, except for attributing these beliefs
to *me*. I was unclear. These are beliefs that C programmers
have stated to me, as to why C is "more efficient" than Ada.
Of course, if a programmer is manually optimizing, he/she must
have assumptions about, and a model of, the machine on which
the code will run. Sometimes, these will be wrong.
Another argument for machine optimization, which Ada better
supports.
>-- David O'Brien (dobrien@sea.gwu.edu)
Yours in agreement,
Sam Mize - smize@starbase.neosoft.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1995-01-24 14:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <3etund$hnr@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
1995-01-12 9:56 ` "Subtract C, add Ada" Erik Svensson
[not found] ` <3f0n6b$qnp@theopolis.orl.mmc.com>
[not found] ` <3f3cq3$4tu@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
1995-01-12 14:25 ` uninitialzed variables Richard Kenner
1995-01-12 14:44 ` "Subtract C, add Ada" Norman H. Cohen
1995-01-13 1:51 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-13 12:38 ` Laurent Gasser
1995-01-13 20:53 ` John DiCamillo
[not found] ` <3f8fnf$c8p@gamma.ois.com>
1995-01-16 11:02 ` Matt Kennel
[not found] ` <milodD2IFpG.329@netcom.com>
1995-01-17 21:39 ` R. William Beckwith
[not found] ` <3fa11q$sdh@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
1995-01-16 20:20 ` David Moore
1995-01-14 0:24 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-20 4:43 ` Samuel Mize
1995-01-21 20:28 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-22 21:12 ` Robert Dewar
1995-01-23 18:35 ` Norman H. Cohen
1995-01-23 19:18 ` John Cosby - The Coz
1995-01-24 14:11 ` Samuel Mize [this message]
[not found] ` <3g655n$q5k@theopolis.orl.mmc.com>
1995-01-30 15:33 ` Ada vs. C Martijn Bak
1995-01-14 10:37 ` "Subtract C, add Ada" Keith Thompson
[not found] ` <3fcjgt$b0v@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>
1995-01-16 18:47 ` Robert Dewar
[not found] ` <D2It0r.4rp@inmet.camb.inmet.com>
1995-01-17 14:11 ` Norman H. Cohen
[not found] ` <3g9nir$fpl@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
1995-01-28 20:23 ` Increment operator (+=) Jacob Sparre Andersen
[not found] ` <3gc5be$frj@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
1995-01-29 12:51 ` Adding in COBOL Robert Dewar
1995-02-10 13:49 "Subtract C, add Ada" R.A.L Williams
[not found] <3gsr0e$oin@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
1995-02-07 16:58 ` Mark S. Hathaway
1995-02-08 7:39 ` Travis C. Porco
1995-02-08 16:07 ` Fred J. McCall
1995-02-08 21:30 ` Garlington KE
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1995-01-31 9:34 R.A.L Williams
1995-02-01 16:45 ` Charles H. Sampson
1995-01-23 8:49 R.A.L Williams
1995-01-25 23:18 ` Charles H. Sampson
1995-01-20 10:20 R.A.L Williams
1995-01-20 13:22 ` Renaud HEBERT
1995-01-24 3:35 ` David Moore
1995-01-25 5:38 ` Robert Dewar
1995-01-28 16:35 ` Jules
1995-01-29 8:06 ` Matt Kennel
1995-01-30 5:31 ` Michael Feldman
1995-01-31 22:22 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-24 20:23 ` N. Mellor
1995-01-25 8:50 ` Robb Nebbe
1995-01-25 14:19 ` John Volan
1995-01-26 5:07 ` Samuel Mize
1995-01-26 18:51 ` Mark A Biggar
1995-01-21 15:18 ` Robert Dewar
1995-01-21 21:03 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-23 3:09 ` Jay Martin
1995-01-23 12:50 ` Andrew McConnell
1995-01-24 0:54 ` Matt Kennel
1995-01-25 17:03 ` Norman H. Cohen
1995-01-26 1:13 ` Dr. Richard Botting
1995-01-26 14:32 ` Anders Juul Munch
1995-01-24 0:17 ` Bob Kitzberger
1995-01-23 20:46 ` Robert Firth
1995-01-24 14:25 ` Samuel Mize
1995-01-25 7:27 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-25 12:14 ` Robert A Duff
1995-01-25 5:57 ` David O'Brien
[not found] ` <3g9rf0$71k@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
1995-01-28 21:08 ` David O'Brien
1995-01-31 18:07 ` Samuel Mize
1995-02-01 10:23 ` Samuel Mize
1995-01-30 0:24 ` Mark S. Hathaway
1995-01-31 3:30 ` Jay Martin
1995-02-01 13:25 ` Jesper Kaagaard
1995-01-20 9:33 R.A.L Williams
[not found] <3fgphd$sc3@rational.rational.com>
1995-01-20 5:51 ` RonaldS60
1995-02-07 13:55 ` Robert C. Soong
[not found] <3fdcoi$chn@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>
1995-01-20 5:01 ` Samuel Mize
1995-01-20 22:07 ` Garlington KE
1995-01-24 5:02 ` R_Tim_Coslet
1994-12-30 16:06 Mitch Gart
1995-01-03 19:04 ` whiting_ms@corning.com (Matt Whiting)
1995-01-05 4:31 ` Michael Feldman
1995-01-04 21:40 ` Fred McCall
1995-01-05 4:30 ` Richard Pattis
1995-01-05 16:07 ` Kevin Weise
1995-01-06 13:06 ` Jahn Rentmeister
1995-01-06 16:47 ` Laurent Gasser
1995-01-06 17:29 ` David Weller
1995-01-06 17:30 ` David Weller
1995-01-10 18:28 ` Bob Kitzberger
1995-01-06 23:36 ` Kenneth Almquist
1995-01-04 22:45 ` Jay M. Martin
1995-01-05 4:37 ` Michael Feldman
1995-01-05 18:08 ` Jay Martin
1995-01-05 23:56 ` Robert Dewar
1995-01-08 8:04 ` Jay Martin
1995-01-06 0:07 ` Michael M. Bishop
1995-01-10 21:30 ` Jay Martin
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