web scripting

web scripting

[Robert Stuckart]

I just saw this on comp.lang.php and if you could use a laugh, here it
is. http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm

Is there anything available that would allow the use of Ada for
server-side scripting?  It is extremely easy to write simple scripts
in PHP, but it doesn't scale well at all.

I know this is naive, but I have to ask.  Could scripting be the
killer application for Ada?

Bob

Re: web scripting

[Dale Stanbrough]

Robert Stuckart wrote:

> I just saw this on comp.lang.php and if you could use a laugh, here it
> is. http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm
> 
> Is there anything available that would allow the use of Ada for
> server-side scripting?  It is extremely easy to write simple scripts
> in PHP, but it doesn't scale well at all.

One of the language criteria is that...

   "doesn't require CS degree to use" 

so I doubt they are interested in high value skills.

> I know this is naive, but I have to ask.  Could scripting be the
> killer application for Ada?


The "killer application" for Ada is the one that -you- write, 
not one you suggest that others write at some time in the future.

Dale

Re: web scripting

[Robert Stuckart]

On Sat, 17 May 2003 01:22:03 GMT, Dale Stanbrough
<dstanbro@bigpond.net.au> wrote:


>> I know this is naive, but I have to ask.  Could scripting be the
>> killer application for Ada?
>
>
>The "killer application" for Ada is the one that -you- write, 
>not one you suggest that others write at some time in the future.
>
>Dale

Has anyone already made a start on it?

Bob

Re: web scripting

[Dale Stanbrough]

In article <ue4bcvk5km50j58uciof6a5ug1bgis0be7@4ax.com>,
 Robert Stuckart <xstuckaxt@stny.rr.com> wrote:


> >The "killer application" for Ada is the one that -you- write, 
> >not one you suggest that others write at some time in the future.
> >
> >Dale
> 
> Has anyone already made a start on it?
> 
> Bob

I write my CGI scripts in Ada, and i've written numerous 
simple html routines. Nothing spectacular, but it solves
my needs.


dale

Re: web scripting

[Pascal Obry]

Robert Stuckart <xstuckaxt@stny.rr.com> writes:

> I just saw this on comp.lang.php and if you could use a laugh, here it
> is. http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm
> 
> Is there anything available that would allow the use of Ada for
> server-side scripting?  

AWS. I have used it in medium-large Web projects. It scales well and is very
powerful, of course I could be a bit biased ;) One powerful AWS's component is
the template engine.

See http://libre.act-europe.fr/aws

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: web scripting

[Tarjei T. Jensen]

Robert Stuckart  wrote:
> Is there anything available that would allow the use of Ada for
> server-side scripting?  It is extremely easy to write simple scripts
> in PHP, but it doesn't scale well at all.

What you want is a web server which loads "scripts" as dynamic link
libraries. The point is of course that you should be able to unload the
lilbrary once the work is done.

> I know this is naive, but I have to ask.  Could scripting be the
> killer application for Ada?

It could be,  if you don't forget that it is a scripting language and not
Ada. e.g. you want strings like Borland Pascal does them, not like Ada95.

Ideally it should look like a cross between vbscript and Ada.


greetings,

Re: web scripting

[tmoran]

>What you want is a web server which loads "scripts" as dynamic link
  A web server is just a program.  If you want it to run code that changes
on the fly, without a restart, then yes, you need to use dynamic loading,
or interpretation, or CGI, or Annex E or something.  If you know what it
should do and that doesn't change dramatically or frequently, you can code
the whole thing in Ada and recompile the whole thing as necessary.  That
also of course has security advantages.  The server at www.adaic.com
recently added a search capability.  That was done with Ada code, not
interpreted scripts.  If the web server doesn't have to handle all sorts
of bells and whistles, it can even be a rather small chunk of code.

>It could be,  if you don't forget that it is a scripting language and not
  As has been pointed out, Ada is perfectly fine for CGI, and it can
also be used for dll's or with the Distributed Annex.  Those all give you
dynamic loading.  So the real question is whether you need a new
application-specific language for the kinds of programs you intend
to write in this scripting language.

Re: web scripting

[Tarjei T. Jensen]

"tmoran@acm.org" wrote :
> >What you want is a web server which loads "scripts" as dynamic link
>   A web server is just a program.  If you want it to run code that changes
> on the fly, without a restart, then yes, you need to use dynamic loading,
> or interpretation, or CGI, or Annex E or something.  If you know what it
> should do and that doesn't change dramatically or frequently, you can code
> the whole thing in Ada and recompile the whole thing as necessary.  That
> also of course has security advantages.

The main problem is most likely to be errant dll-code. I assume that all
loadable modules would be kept in a secure place.

> >It could be,  if you don't forget that it is a scripting language and not
>   As has been pointed out, Ada is perfectly fine for CGI, and it can
> also be used for dll's or with the Distributed Annex.  Those all give you
> dynamic loading.  So the real question is whether you need a new
> application-specific language for the kinds of programs you intend
> to write in this scripting language.

cgi is not terribly hot with regards to performance.

Read "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan Cooper (lots of
self-publicity, but also real insight). Then we can quarrel about whether it
would be worth doing and what might be worth doing.

greetings,

Re: web scripting

[Pascal Obry]

"Tarjei T. Jensen" <tarjei.jensen@akerkvaerner.com> writes:

> "tmoran@acm.org" wrote :
> > >What you want is a web server which loads "scripts" as dynamic link
> >   A web server is just a program.  If you want it to run code that changes
> > on the fly, without a restart, then yes, you need to use dynamic loading,
> > or interpretation, or CGI, or Annex E or something.  If you know what it
> > should do and that doesn't change dramatically or frequently, you can code
> > the whole thing in Ada and recompile the whole thing as necessary.  That
> > also of course has security advantages.
> 
> The main problem is most likely to be errant dll-code. I assume that all
> loadable modules would be kept in a secure place.

Something strange here. Why do you want scripting on the server side ? It
will just slow down the server with no gain at all!

> > >It could be,  if you don't forget that it is a scripting language and not
> >   As has been pointed out, Ada is perfectly fine for CGI, and it can
> > also be used for dll's or with the Distributed Annex.  Those all give you
> > dynamic loading.  So the real question is whether you need a new
> > application-specific language for the kinds of programs you intend
> > to write in this scripting language.
> 
> cgi is not terribly hot with regards to performance.

Indeed. CGI also introduces security problems.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: web scripting

[Tarjei T. Jensen]

"Pascal Obry"  wrote:
> Something strange here. Why do you want scripting on the server side ? It
> will just slow down the server with no gain at all!

Of course there is gain. You get the ability to extend the functionality of
the server.

However I believe that it is better to extend this functionality by using
loadable modules.

greetings,

Re: web scripting

[Pascal Obry]

"Tarjei T. Jensen" <tarjei@online.no> writes:

> "Pascal Obry"  wrote:
> > Something strange here. Why do you want scripting on the server side ? It
> > will just slow down the server with no gain at all!
> 
> Of course there is gain. You get the ability to extend the functionality of
> the server.

But on the server side you always have the possibility to recompile your
application. Using scripting on the server just slow-down the whole beast by
a factor of 2 or 3. Is that a gain ?

> However I believe that it is better to extend this functionality by using
> loadable modules.

This is not scripting in that case. So maybe we are not talking about the
same thing! To extend a server look at the AWS's hotplug modules for example.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: web scripting

[Georg Bauhaus]

Tarjei T. Jensen <tarjei.jensen@akerkvaerner.com> wrote:
: 
: cgi is not terribly hot with regards to performance.

Does that include FastCGI?


-- Georg

Re: web scripting

[Tarjei T. Jensen]

Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> Does that include FastCGI?

I don't know.

greetings,