Arguments for using Ada

Arguments for using Ada

[Georg Maubach]

Hi All,

I am preparing a general suggestion for improvement into the group-wide 
ideas and innovation management system of my employer. For this I would 
like to back up me suggestion with some articles about the advantages of 
using Ada.

I have so far:

Proof that a software development project using Ada takes less - instead 
of more time - than expected: „The Return of Ada“  (http://gcn.com/
Articles/2008/04/11/The-return-of-Ada.aspx?Page=1):.

Proof that complex systems within the logistics and transportation 
industry work more reliable and can be better maintained using Ada than 
other languages: „European Train Control System“ (http://www.adaic.com/
atwork/euro.html):

List of software systems based on Ada that work without defects and are 
therefore never heart of (http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-
summary.html, http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/success/
success.html).

Ada is tought at German universities, programmers could be recruited from 
there (http://www.ada-deutschland.de/ful/index.html).

Proof of the activities of the Ada user community: FOSDEM 2009 - Ada 
Developers Conference Room (http://www.cs.kuleuven.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/
events/09/090207-fosdem.html),
Ada Europe Conference 2009 (http://www.ada-europe.org/
conference2009.html),
ACM SigAda Conference 2009 (http://www.sigada.org/conf/sigada2009/),
Discussion Group (comp.lang.ada)

Tools and Utitilites can be bought from many manufacturers, supplier 
change is possible if needed, no single supplier dependency (http://
www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/developer/ada/, http://www.eds.com/, http://
www.adacore.com, http://www.aonix.com, http://www.ddci.com, http://
www.ghs.com)

Training courses are available from different suppliers (http://
www.ddci.com/, http://www.abssw.com, http://www.classwide.com/).

What is missing are articles relating to the following:

- There are enough Ada programmers available.
- Ada can be used with more success than other languages. There was a 
software development project at a university which asked a first group of 
students to use C (not successful) and asked a second group of students 
using Ada (succeessful).
- Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with 
Ada results in less defects than progams in other languages
- Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with 
Ada results in better maintainable software

Can you help me with links and information on the aspects still missing?

Regards

Georg

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[christoph.grein]

> - Ada can be used with more success than other languages. There was a
> software development project at a university which asked a first group of
> students to use C (not successful) and asked a second group of students
> using Ada (succeessful).

John McCormick's Model Railroad:

http://www.adaic.org/atwork/trains.html

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[Ludovic Brenta]

Georg Maubach wrote on comp.lang.ada:
> Hi All,
>
> I am preparing a general suggestion for improvement into the group-wide
> ideas and innovation management system of my employer. For this I would
> like to back up me suggestion with some articles about the advantages of
> using Ada.
>
> I have so far:
>
> Proof that a software development project using Ada takes less - instead
> of more time - than expected: „The Return of Ada“  (http://gcn.com/
> Articles/2008/04/11/The-return-of-Ada.aspx?Page=1):.
>
> Proof that complex systems within the logistics and transportation
> industry work more reliable and can be better maintained using Ada than
> other languages: „European Train Control System“ (http://www.adaic.com/
> atwork/euro.html):
>
> List of software systems based on Ada that work without defects and are
> therefore never heart of (http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-
> summary.html,http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/success/
> success.html).
>
> Ada is tought at German universities, programmers could be recruited from
> there (http://www.ada-deutschland.de/ful/index.html).
>
> Proof of the activities of the Ada user community: FOSDEM 2009 - Ada
> Developers Conference Room (http://www.cs.kuleuven.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/
> events/09/090207-fosdem.html),
> Ada Europe Conference 2009 (http://www.ada-europe.org/
> conference2009.html),
> ACM SigAda Conference 2009 (http://www.sigada.org/conf/sigada2009/),
> Discussion Group (comp.lang.ada)
>
> Tools and Utitilites can be bought from many manufacturers, supplier
> change is possible if needed, no single supplier dependency (http://www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/developer/ada/,http://www.eds.com/, http://www.adacore.com,http://www.aonix.com,http://www.ddci.com, http://www.ghs.com)

I don't think this is relevant to most pointy-haired bosses :( They're
content to become a captive customer of Microsoft, Sun (Java) and
Intel (processors). Instead, I think the relevant idea is that they
can choose one reliable supplier that provides support in the long
term, and happily become captive.

> Training courses are available from different suppliers (http://www.ddci.com/,http://www.abssw.com,http://www.classwide.com/).

Also www.adalog.fr.

> What is missing are articles relating to the following:
>
> - There are enough Ada programmers available.

At Eurocontrol we never have a problem recruiting Ada programmers, or
people willing to convert to Ada. But pointy-haired bosses like to
point out "the lack of Ada programmers" when they run out of excuses
for poor engineering decisions. If a programmer can learn Java or C#,
they can learn Ada.

> - Ada can be used with more success than other languages. There was a
> software development project at a university which asked a first group of
> students to use C (not successful) and asked a second group of students
> using Ada (succeessful).

http://www.adaic.org/atwork/trains.html

> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with
> Ada results in less defects than progams in other languages

http://www.adaic.com/whyada/ada-vs-c/cada_art.html

> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with
> Ada results in better maintainable software

http://www.adaic.com/whyada/ada-vs-c/cada_art.html

> Can you help me with links and information on the aspects still missing?

http://www.adaic.com/whyada/

I think the buggest hurdle to overcome is the lemming mentality; even
if you point out that a pointy-haired boss is thinking like a lemming,
they are still happy about that because they want their programmers to
be interchangeable (i.e. disposable). Some do not even understand the
value of good education and tools for good software engineering.

Also, before you convince pointy-haired bosses, you need to win the
hearts and minds of developers. So, I would suggest you discuss your
idea with some developers first, and not try to have managers force
Ada on them. You will be better able to convince managers if several
top developers back your suggestions.

--
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[Ludovic Brenta]

Ludovic Brenta wrote on comp.lang.ada:
> Georg Maubach wrote on comp.lang.ada:
> > - There are enough Ada programmers available.
>
> At Eurocontrol we never have a problem recruiting Ada programmers, or
> people willing to convert to Ada. But pointy-haired bosses like to
> point out "the lack of Ada programmers" when they run out of excuses
> for poor engineering decisions. If a programmer can learn Java or C#,
> they can learn Ada.

There is statistical proof that the number of Ada programmers is
increasing:

http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=gnat+gnat-4.1+gnat-4.3&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

--
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[roderick.chapman]

On May 19, 9:41 am, Georg Maubach <a...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with
> Ada results in less defects than progams in other languages

I would add "The existence of SPARK" to your list of things
that are special and/or notable about Ada.

For data on defect rates, see the various publications regarding
SPARK usage on www.sparkada.com

Also see Andy German's paper from CrossTalk (google for "German
Crosstalk QinetiQ").

See the Tokeneer system from www.adacore.com/tokeneer

 - Rod, SPARK Team

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[Peter Hermann]

"some" more links (-:
http://www.ihr.uni-stuttgart.de/forschung/ada/resources_on_ada/

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[Mike Silva]

I've always been impressed by the finding that some Ada code certified
to DO-178B had only one tenth the residual error rate of some C code
also certified to DO-178B.  Maybe the Praxis folk can help you
document that finding.  In addition, you should peruse all their
online publications.

Here's the reference to the one-tenth residual error figure:
http://www.praxis-his.com/sparkada/pdfs/spark_c130j.pdf

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[roderick.chapman]

On May 21, 3:23 pm, Mike Silva <snarflem...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've always been impressed by the finding that some Ada code certified
> Maybe the Praxis folk can help you document that finding.

It's in Andy German's paper from CrossTalk - see my posting above.
 - Rod

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[Michael Erdmann]

Georg Maubach wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am preparing a general suggestion for improvement into the group-wide 
> ideas and innovation management system of my employer. For this I would 
> like to back up me suggestion with some articles about the advantages of 
> using Ada.
> 
> I have so far:
> 

It is a  quite impressing list :-)  but for my opinion your are missing
the important question; does what we are doing match what the Ada
community could provide?
For example if your business is relying on the reuse of components
from the open source domain, your will have a an issue with Ada,
since it will be your responsibility  to integrate this software
with all the connected quality risks :-/

Regards
    M.Erdmann


> Proof that a software development project using Ada takes less - instead 
> of more time - than expected: �The Return of Ada�  (http://gcn.com/
> Articles/2008/04/11/The-return-of-Ada.aspx?Page=1):.
> 
> Proof that complex systems within the logistics and transportation 
> industry work more reliable and can be better maintained using Ada than 
> other languages: �European Train Control System� (http://www.adaic.com/
> atwork/euro.html):
> 
> List of software systems based on Ada that work without defects and are 
> therefore never heart of (http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-
> summary.html, http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/success/
> success.html).
> 
> Ada is tought at German universities, programmers could be recruited from 
> there (http://www.ada-deutschland.de/ful/index.html).
> 
> Proof of the activities of the Ada user community: FOSDEM 2009 - Ada 
> Developers Conference Room (http://www.cs.kuleuven.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/
> events/09/090207-fosdem.html),
> Ada Europe Conference 2009 (http://www.ada-europe.org/
> conference2009.html),
> ACM SigAda Conference 2009 (http://www.sigada.org/conf/sigada2009/),
> Discussion Group (comp.lang.ada)
> 
> Tools and Utitilites can be bought from many manufacturers, supplier 
> change is possible if needed, no single supplier dependency (http://
> www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/developer/ada/, http://www.eds.com/, http://
> www.adacore.com, http://www.aonix.com, http://www.ddci.com, http://
> www.ghs.com)
> 
> Training courses are available from different suppliers (http://
> www.ddci.com/, http://www.abssw.com, http://www.classwide.com/).
> 
> What is missing are articles relating to the following:
> 
> - There are enough Ada programmers available.
> - Ada can be used with more success than other languages. There was a 
> software development project at a university which asked a first group of 
> students to use C (not successful) and asked a second group of students 
> using Ada (succeessful).
> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with 
> Ada results in less defects than progams in other languages
> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with 
> Ada results in better maintainable software
> 
> Can you help me with links and information on the aspects still missing?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Georg
> 

Re: Arguments for using Ada

[Michael Erdmann]

Georg Maubach wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am preparing a general suggestion for improvement into the group-wide 
> ideas and innovation management system of my employer. For this I would 
> like to back up me suggestion with some articles about the advantages of 
> using Ada.
> 
> I have so far:
> 

It is a  quite impressing list :-)  but for my opinion your are missing
the important question; does what we are doing match what the Ada
community could provide?
For example if your business is relying on the reuse of components
from the open source domain, your will have a an issue with Ada,
since it will be your responsibility  to integrate this software
with all the connected quality risks :-/

Regards
    M.Erdmann


> Proof that a software development project using Ada takes less - instead 
> of more time - than expected: �The Return of Ada�  (http://gcn.com/
> Articles/2008/04/11/The-return-of-Ada.aspx?Page=1):.
> 
> Proof that complex systems within the logistics and transportation 
> industry work more reliable and can be better maintained using Ada than 
> other languages: �European Train Control System� (http://www.adaic.com/
> atwork/euro.html):
> 
> List of software systems based on Ada that work without defects and are 
> therefore never heart of (http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-
> summary.html, http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/success/
> success.html).
> 
> Ada is tought at German universities, programmers could be recruited from 
> there (http://www.ada-deutschland.de/ful/index.html).
> 
> Proof of the activities of the Ada user community: FOSDEM 2009 - Ada 
> Developers Conference Room (http://www.cs.kuleuven.be/~dirk/ada-belgium/
> events/09/090207-fosdem.html),
> Ada Europe Conference 2009 (http://www.ada-europe.org/
> conference2009.html),
> ACM SigAda Conference 2009 (http://www.sigada.org/conf/sigada2009/),
> Discussion Group (comp.lang.ada)
> 
> Tools and Utitilites can be bought from many manufacturers, supplier 
> change is possible if needed, no single supplier dependency (http://
> www.ibm.com/software/awdtools/developer/ada/, http://www.eds.com/, http://
> www.adacore.com, http://www.aonix.com, http://www.ddci.com, http://
> www.ghs.com)
> 
> Training courses are available from different suppliers (http://
> www.ddci.com/, http://www.abssw.com, http://www.classwide.com/).
> 
> What is missing are articles relating to the following:
> 
> - There are enough Ada programmers available.
> - Ada can be used with more success than other languages. There was a 
> software development project at a university which asked a first group of 
> students to use C (not successful) and asked a second group of students 
> using Ada (succeessful).
> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with 
> Ada results in less defects than progams in other languages
> - Links with content (e.g. research) that proofs that development with 
> Ada results in better maintainable software
> 
> Can you help me with links and information on the aspects still missing?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Georg
>