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From: rriehle@itu.edu
Subject: Re: F-22 ADA Programming
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:54:34 -0800 (PST)
Date: 2014-11-14T14:54:34-08:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3d5997a0-fc19-4265-9ca4-89b004974829@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e686d282-ce1b-4be0-8a89-213a61866264@googlegroups.com>

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 4:55:40 PM UTC-7, David Botton wrote:
> > "Lack of Ada developers" is also a false complaint. 
> 
> There are overall very few developers when you are looking for "local" developers. I am not sure there is another Ada developer in all of South Florida I could hire if I needed :)
> 
> > Generally they want to hire lots of poor developers, since that maximizes profit on cost-plus contracts, and Ada  people tend not to fall into that category.
> 
> There is truth to this, but once they hired the handful of people we know they'd still have tons of seats to fill.
> 
> Also, not every project requires someone with the skill sets many of us have, projects of a large enough size may not justify that many senior level people.
> 
> David Botton

I recall from when I was actively teaching Ada that one large DoD contractor (one of the largest) decided to use C++ instead of Ada.  The reason?   We can hire C++ programmers right out of college.  This is rather strange.  Why would they think that recent  college graduates schooled in a clunky language such as C++, where they wrote mostly toy programs using features that we cannot allow (notice the long list of proscriptions for JSF), who need to be retaught how to use the language safely -- how can they think they are getting any benefit?   I used to ask they, "Why would you choose a programming language that is inherently error-prone and expect an outcome that is error-free?"  Answer: "Go away Richard.  We have made our decision."  

Ada is not that hard to learn.   Probably the most difficult thing to learn in Ada is the rules from Chapter Eight, Visibility Rules.  Those rules are what make Ada unique, and make it a powerful engineering-oriented tool for building dependable software.  Too often, I found, they just wanted to get code working as quickly as possible without too much thought to the dependability issues.  "We can find the problems during testing," is not a good approach to engineering.  Too often, when problems are discovered during testing, the design flaws need to be fixed with the equivalent of some kind of shim -- what I call a "software shim," reminiscent of putting a piece of folded napkin under a wobbly table, instead of creating a precise design from the beginning.   

Until we have software professionals who are also trained to think as-if they were engineers, they will not really appreciate Ada as we would hope they would.

  reply	other threads:[~2014-11-14 22:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-10-26 18:31 F-22 ADA Programming nathandsash
2014-10-26 19:02 ` Martyn Pike
2014-10-26 21:20 ` David Botton
2014-10-26 23:24   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-26 23:55     ` David Botton
2014-11-14 22:54       ` rriehle [this message]
2014-11-14 23:46         ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2014-11-15  6:43           ` wilson
2014-11-15 17:49             ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-11-15 21:28         ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-16  9:57           ` Jean François Martinez
2014-11-16 22:26             ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-17  0:33               ` Jean François Martinez
2014-10-27  0:13     ` Robert A Duff
2014-10-27  0:31       ` David Botton
2014-10-27 10:17         ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-27 10:47           ` J-P. Rosen
2014-10-27 15:06         ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-27 22:32           ` Randy Brukardt
2014-10-27  6:28       ` Pascal Obry
2014-10-27 15:04     ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-27 15:17       ` Björn Lundin
2014-10-27 15:41       ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-10-27 16:01         ` Robert A Duff
2014-10-27 20:16         ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28  8:45         ` Natasha Kerensikova
2014-10-28 11:58           ` Bill White
2014-10-28 14:56             ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28 19:36               ` Bill White
2014-10-28 18:29           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-28 18:37             ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28 19:14               ` David Botton
2014-10-28 21:06               ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-28 21:32                 ` Simon Clubley
2014-10-28 21:37                 ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-28 23:59                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29  0:34                     ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-29  5:24                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29  8:37                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-10-29 17:20                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29 20:43                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-10-29 20:55                               ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-29 21:40                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-30  8:56                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-11-08  4:52                                   ` Randy Brukardt
2014-11-08  8:12                                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-10-30 15:38                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-10-30 15:49                               ` Alan Jump
2014-10-30 22:33                                 ` Dennis Lee Bieber
2014-10-30 23:13                                   ` Jeffrey Carter
2014-10-30 16:07                               ` Bill White
2014-10-30 22:37                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-10-31  9:41                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-31 12:51                                     ` Brad Moore
2014-11-01  3:03                                     ` C versus Ada (once again :-)), was: " Simon Clubley
2014-11-01 13:35                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-11-03  1:54                                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03  9:42                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-11-03 12:07                                           ` Luke A. Guest
2014-11-04  2:01                                             ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03 14:26                                           ` Brian Drummond
2014-11-01 13:46                                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-03  2:01                                         ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03  9:10                                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-03 12:09                                           ` Luke A. Guest
2014-11-03 12:40                                       ` Florian Weimer
2014-11-03 21:58                                         ` Shark8
2014-11-03 22:28                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2014-11-04 13:42                                           ` Florian Weimer
2014-11-04 15:01                                             ` G.B.
2014-11-04 15:50                                               ` Florian Weimer
2014-10-31 10:11                                   ` Bill White
2014-10-31 12:52                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-02 15:40                                       ` Bill White
2014-11-02 22:23                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2014-11-02 22:52                                           ` Peter Chapin
2014-11-03  1:36                                           ` Simon Clubley
2014-11-03 19:04                                           ` Laurent
2014-10-31 13:24                               ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2014-11-08  4:45                 ` Randy Brukardt
2014-11-08 23:43                   ` Shark8
2014-11-09  8:39                     ` Simon Wright
2014-11-09 20:53                       ` Shark8
2014-10-28 19:18             ` Simon Clubley
2014-10-27 16:34       ` David Botton
2014-10-27 16:51         ` brbarkstrom
2014-10-27 18:03           ` G.B.
2014-10-27 22:06             ` Simon Wright
2014-10-28  9:40               ` Georg Bauhaus
2014-10-27 20:06         ` Adam Beneschan
2014-10-27 20:21           ` David Botton
2014-10-28 11:34       ` tonyg
2014-10-27 17:01     ` Pascal Obry
2014-10-27  4:53 ` Jerry Petrey
2014-10-29  1:49   ` F-35 (was:F-22 ADA Programming) Robert Love
2014-10-30  9:01     ` Frédéric Praca
2014-10-30  9:07       ` Frédéric Praca
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