From: Vinzent Hoefler <JeLlyFish.software@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: status of Ada STL?
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:40:18 +0200
Date: 2002-06-17T23:40:18+02:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3d0e574d_2@news.bluewin.ch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: bebbba07.0206162120.3acf4278@posting.google.com
18k11tm001@sneakemail.com (Russ) wrote:
>Vinzent Hoefler <JeLlyFish.software@gmx.net> wrote in message news:<3d0ce154_5@news.bluewin.ch>...
>> 18k11tm001@sneakemail.com (Russ) wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> Mmh. How do you convert a "/=" construct then?
>
>x /= y -- new syntax
>x := x / y; -- old syntax
|if (x /= y) then
|
|vs.
|
|x /= y;
No, you don't really want that, do you? And I still consider such
constructs as ugly.
>> Yup. More or less this is the case. IMO the syntax is well chosen,
>> perhaps not perfect, but very good and clear.
>
>Let me repeat: YOU'S STILL BE ABLE TO USE IT EVEN IF MY PROPOSAL WAS
>ADOPTED.
Well, well. Don't shout that loud, I can hear you. My point is this
would lead to different constructs doing the same, making the code
hardly readable.
>> >But the question is not whether CURRENT Ada users like it;
>> >the question is why so few OTHER programmers are showing any interest
>> >in Ada, despite it's superior fundamental design.
>>
>> Because they are using C-like languages.
>
>Maybe. Maybe not. But so what?
Simply don't let Ada look like C to convince those people. They won't
thank you. The only thing they'd say would be "Fine, looks good for
me, but why? I already have my C++."
>> >Ever heard the old expression, "The first
>> >impression is the most important one."? And no, I am not claiming that
>> >my syntax proposal is the entire answer, but I do believe it would be
>> >a modest step in the right direction.
>>
>> And the next step would be to replace "begin end" by "{ }"? Well, if I
>> wanted C++, I wouldn't have chosen Ada. :->
>
>I would not go that far.
Even if the people you are probably targeting would say, "The "begin
end" is soooo long, I'd like using my {}, so I won't use Ada."?
>I heard that ":=" was originally chosen by some early language
>designer (can't remember who) who actually wanted to use "<=", but his
>ancient ancient keyboard didn't have "<". You've fooled yourself into
>thinking it has some deep meaning.
Well. Pascal (and its succesors uses it) and I do not think that Wirth
had a such *ancient* keyboard, because he used "<>" instead of "/=".
VHDL uses it, too. And it uses "<=" at the same time for slightly
different things. So there *must* be some deeper meaning. :-)
>Einstein said, "Everything should
>be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." So Einstein agrees
>with me.
Well. So using "=" and "=" for assignments and comparison is more
simple. Brainfuck is very simple, too. The thing is you seemed to miss
the second part: "but not simpler". Although I don't think that your
proposal would actually really lead to something more simple.
>> Today's compilers are smart enough to let you not do such optimization
>> constructs and could let you use a clear and readable construct for
>> assigning a new value.
>
>Every good C++ programmer knows that "+=" is much more efficient than
>"+" for vector/matrix addition because it eliminates the need for
>constructing a temporary matrix to hold the sum.
Every good compiler should see in its data flow analysis that both
statements simply are the same. It *should* not be a matter of how it
is *expressed*. So, what am I missing?
Vinzent.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-06-17 21:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 188+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-06-14 7:21 status of Ada STL? Russ
2002-06-14 16:29 ` Stephen Leake
2002-06-14 18:44 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-14 20:34 ` Ehud Lamm
2002-06-15 18:52 ` Russ
2002-06-16 2:42 ` David Marceau
2002-06-16 8:07 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-16 18:23 ` Russ
2002-06-16 19:01 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-16 19:04 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-06-17 1:59 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-06-17 6:48 ` Russ
2002-06-17 7:04 ` Dale Stanbrough
2002-06-18 6:16 ` Russ
2002-06-19 1:07 ` Dale Stanbrough
2002-06-17 9:38 ` chris.danx
2002-06-17 15:53 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-18 7:52 ` Russ
2002-06-18 10:57 ` chris.danx
2002-06-18 14:38 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 16:19 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-18 17:12 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-06-18 18:03 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-18 19:24 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-06-18 19:41 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-25 0:02 ` Steven Deller
2002-06-25 1:24 ` Yet another assignment variation (was Re: status of Ada STL?) Dale Stanbrough
2002-06-25 12:53 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-06-25 17:48 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-06-26 3:13 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 19:03 ` status of Ada STL? Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 19:54 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-18 21:09 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 23:36 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-19 1:37 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-19 16:25 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-19 18:53 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-19 20:23 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-19 3:57 ` Russ
2002-06-18 21:55 ` Dmitry A.Kazakov
2002-06-19 5:32 ` Russ
2002-06-19 12:37 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-06-20 6:50 ` Russ
2002-06-20 12:21 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-20 21:42 ` Dmitry A.Kazakov
2002-06-20 18:20 ` Russ
2002-06-21 10:27 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-06-20 18:21 ` Russ
2002-06-20 19:09 ` Russ
2002-06-17 17:16 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-18 5:27 ` Russ
2002-06-17 17:17 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-17 21:40 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-06-17 5:20 ` Russ
2002-06-17 8:22 ` chris.danx
2002-06-17 14:00 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-06-17 15:57 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-18 6:12 ` Russ
2002-06-18 8:16 ` chris.danx
2002-06-18 14:52 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 16:02 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-18 16:54 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-06-18 22:58 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2002-06-18 19:09 ` Robert A Duff
[not found] ` <ud6uolglz.fsf@w <wccsn3kxv3g.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-06-19 8:09 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-19 3:04 ` Russ
2002-06-19 16:40 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-06-19 18:07 ` Brian Rogoff
2002-06-18 9:37 ` Fraser Wilson
2002-06-18 15:45 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-06-19 16:55 ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-06-19 19:13 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-20 7:43 ` Dmitry A.Kazakov
2002-06-22 22:05 ` Robert I. Eachus
2002-06-17 21:40 ` Vinzent Hoefler [this message]
2002-06-18 15:05 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 22:36 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-06-19 12:45 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-06-19 14:35 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-21 11:03 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-06-21 16:58 ` Mark Biggar
2002-06-22 23:23 ` Dmitry A.Kazakov
2002-06-27 3:00 ` David Thompson
2002-06-28 13:36 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-30 4:05 ` Russ
2002-06-30 13:50 ` Ted Dennison
2002-07-01 13:12 ` Marin David Condic
2002-07-02 19:56 ` Robert A Duff
[not found] ` <bebbba07.0206292005.45ad915a@p <wcc4rfhj43l.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
2002-07-02 20:40 ` Pat Rogers
2002-06-18 15:21 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-19 0:34 ` tmoran
2002-06-19 2:55 ` Russ
2002-06-19 4:53 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-19 8:21 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-19 14:52 ` Stephen Leake
2002-06-20 1:45 ` SteveD
2002-06-20 2:01 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-16 20:01 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-17 5:29 ` Russ
2002-06-16 23:02 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-17 5:07 ` Russ
2002-06-17 14:03 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-06-17 14:11 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-18 5:55 ` Russ
2002-06-18 14:30 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-18 15:14 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-19 14:19 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-19 16:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-19 5:58 ` Russ
2002-06-19 14:35 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-20 7:06 ` Russ
2002-06-20 12:27 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-20 23:22 ` Russ
2002-06-21 2:00 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-22 4:28 ` Russ
2002-06-22 15:05 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-21 8:48 ` Ian Wild
2002-06-22 4:54 ` Russ
2002-06-20 22:47 ` Russ
2002-06-21 0:43 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-22 4:05 ` Russ
2002-06-22 14:41 ` Jano
2002-06-22 20:27 ` Ted Dennison
2002-06-21 13:12 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-24 8:29 ` Russ
2002-06-24 20:19 ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-06-18 22:36 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-06-18 22:42 ` Ed Falis
2002-06-19 0:07 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-06-19 0:07 ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-06-17 22:37 ` Dmitry A.Kazakov
2002-06-17 14:09 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-06-18 21:40 ` Dmitry A.Kazakov
2002-06-18 16:04 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 16:37 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-18 18:56 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 22:20 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-19 12:53 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-06-19 3:37 ` Russ
2002-06-19 8:31 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-20 7:58 ` Russ
2002-06-20 20:34 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-21 4:07 ` Russ
2002-06-17 15:33 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-18 10:28 ` Adrian Hoe
2002-06-19 7:58 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2002-06-19 13:55 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-19 13:52 ` Marin David Condic
2002-09-18 15:23 ` Matthew Heaney
2002-09-19 12:11 ` Marin David Condic
2002-09-19 14:13 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-09-20 12:24 ` Marin David Condic
2002-09-22 7:22 ` Kevin Cline
2002-09-23 13:55 ` Hyman Rosen
2002-09-19 19:42 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-09-20 12:38 ` Marin David Condic
2002-09-27 21:21 ` Michael Bode
2002-09-27 22:11 ` Pat Rogers
2002-09-28 13:25 ` Marin David Condic
2002-09-28 14:52 ` Pat Rogers
2002-09-28 15:18 ` Martin Dowie
2002-09-29 18:02 ` Marin David Condic
2002-09-29 19:02 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-09-30 1:36 ` Marin David Condic
2002-10-02 22:17 ` Matthew Heaney
2002-09-28 17:25 ` Richard Riehle
2002-09-30 17:12 ` Marin David Condic
2002-10-01 18:41 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-10-02 8:38 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2002-10-02 12:43 ` Marin David Condic
2002-10-02 14:26 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2002-10-02 12:30 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-18 1:56 ` SteveD
2002-06-18 14:12 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 14:28 ` chris.danx
2002-06-18 15:59 ` Pascal Obry
2002-06-18 18:58 ` Robert A Duff
2002-06-18 19:58 ` Randy Brukardt
2002-06-19 14:07 ` Marin David Condic
2002-06-19 2:19 ` SteveD
2002-06-18 11:40 ` Colin Paul Gloster
2002-06-20 15:15 ` Colin Paul Gloster
2002-06-18 19:34 ` Mike Silva
2002-06-25 16:31 ` Kevin Cline
2002-06-14 20:34 ` Dan Andreatta
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-06-17 11:05 Grein, Christoph
2002-06-18 5:36 ` Russ
2002-06-26 10:50 Grein, Christoph
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