Re: Marketing Ada

[mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)]

In article <INFO-ADA%94121308190346@VM1.NODAK.EDU>,
 <CONDIC@PSAVAX.PWFL.COM> wrote:

>Don't you think that there is a _slight_ possibility that the
>individuals subscribing to a newsgroup called "systers" might
>just be ever so slightly biased towards a particular agenda and
>are, at best, a self-selected group and are thus guaranteed not
>to be a random sampling of women in computer science? 

Well, as far as i know, that group is indeed pretty representative
of women in CS. I know women from all over the technical and
political spectrum who are members. I suggest you check into
this before you flame again about it.

>Is it at
>all possible that some individuals in such a group might be out
>there looking for "sexism" or "male domination" in almost
>_anything_?

Undoubtedly some of them are. But lots of them aren't. They're
more representative than you think, as you'd discover if you
took some time to investigate.

>Mike, I'll say it again. It is a *BIG* mistake trying to
>interject a notion that computer languages can be "sexist" or in
>any way give credibility to a misperception that C or any
>language is part of a "Macho" culture. It will only politicize
>something which ought not be a political issue.

First of all, you are the one throwing around political statements,
not me. It is a _fact_ that many women perceive C as associated
with a "macho" culture. I did not make up the fact. Their perceptions
may be wrong, but their perceptions are what they are.  The informal
survey I mentioned did show that half the respondents did _not_
perceive C this way. If the group was as biased as you claim, and
was pushing some sort of "agenda", they could've suppressed the data 
that didn't support their argument.

Maybe the word "macho" is throwing you off stride. I am using the
word to describe a style of programming - the tricky, hacker, show-offy
style we have all seen examples of. I am certainly not implying anything
about the nontechnical personalities of C folks.

>I'm not against depicting women as users of Ada in an interest of
>broadening the audience. But let's not turn computer languages
>into another battleground of "sexism" by even entertaining the
>thought that it could or should be.

Well, I, for one, am not doing that. Lots of unbiased studies have
shown that women are more likely to see computers as a tool to get
a job done, and men are more likely to want to put a computer through
its paces. (Like all statistics, these are aggregates, and of course
there are lots if exceptions.) This difference turns up in all sorts 
of places, including male vs. female approaches to the Internet. 
Flamers are (almost) all male, for example. Many women have told me
they have more important things to do than hurl insults on the net.

We can carry this on by e-mail, if you wish. I certainly have no intention
of "politicizing" Ada in the way you imply. I've been accused of many
things; "PC" is not usually one of them.

Back to work.

Mike Feldman