GNAT Programming System - Wow

GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Steve Doiel]

I just had a peek at the PDF file giving a detailed tour of GPS on
http://www.gnat.com.  This looks like it is going to be a very cool tool
when it is available :-)

SteveD

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Ted Dennison]

"Steve Doiel" <nospam_steved94@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<9Y1A8.25350$D%5.3478@sccrnsc01>...
> I just had a peek at the PDF file giving a detailed tour of GPS on
> http://www.gnat.com.  This looks like it is going to be a very cool tool
> when it is available :-)

Pretty damn impressive all right. I particularly like the dancing
penguin in the upper-right.


I have to wonder what the reaction is going to be from the C/C++
community when this is publicly available.


-- 
T.E.D.
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Robert Dewar]

dennison@telepath.com (Ted Dennison) wrote in message news:<4519e058.0205020913.543dc9ac@posting.google.com>...
> "Steve Doiel" <nospam_steved94@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<9Y1A8.25350$D%5.3478@sccrnsc01>...
 
> Pretty damn impressive all right. I particularly like the dancing
> penguin in the upper-right.

Well I guess small things sometimes are wha people react to most :-)

But I have to tell you that the penguin has already been replaced by a little
animated gnat :-)

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Darren New]

Robert Dewar wrote:
> But I have to tell you that the penguin has already been replaced by a little
> animated gnat :-)

Cool. And does it make a little high-pitched whine while it's compiling?

-- 
Darren New 
San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand.
   The 90/10 rule of toothpaste: the last 10% of 
         the tube lasts as long as the first 90%.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Ted Dennison]

Robert Dewar wrote:

> dennison@telepath.com (Ted Dennison) wrote in message news:<4519e058.0205020913.543dc9ac@posting.google.com>...
> 
> Well I guess small things sometimes are wha people react to most :-)
> 
> But I have to tell you that the penguin has already been replaced by a little
> animated gnat :-)


...but its a *cute* animated gnat, right? :-)

That's probably a good decision. It did occur to me that a Tux-like is 
really more appropriate to Linux-only products. I thought perhaps gnats 
swarming around the penguin might be an improvement, but then it 
occurred to me that might imply a kind of stench, which isn't exactly a 
popular way to market a product. :-)

Another wild thought: If ACT ever ends up putting out a web browser, you 
should name your mascot "Mothra". :-)

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Georg Bauhaus]

Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:
: Another wild thought: If ACT ever ends up putting out a web browser, you 
: should name your mascot "Mothra". :-)

You mean the old Plan9 browser software of this name ?  :-9

- georg

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[martin.m.dowie]

"Steve Doiel" <nospam_steved94@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:9Y1A8.25350$D%5.3478@sccrnsc01...
> I just had a peek at the PDF file giving a detailed tour of GPS on
> http://www.gnat.com.  This looks like it is going to be a very cool tool
> when it is available :-)

Is there anything to suggest that there will be a "public" version of GPS?

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Florian Weimer]

"martin.m.dowie" <martin.m.dowie@ntlworld.com> writes:

> Is there anything to suggest that there will be a "public" version
> of GPS?

As far as I know, only the general commitment of ACT towards free
software and the Ada community.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Rod Chapman]

I saw a demo of GPS yesterday given by ACT here at the STC
show in Salt Lake.  It is indeed very impressive.  The support
for big, multi-language projects looks particularly useful.

I'm looking forward to adding a SPARK dialog and toolbar
when I can get my hands on the release... :-)
 - Rod

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <ba18d5cb.0205021400.32390a24@posting.google.com>, rod@praxis-cs.co.uk (Rod Chapman) writes:
> I saw a demo of GPS yesterday given by ACT here at the STC
> show in Salt Lake.  It is indeed very impressive.  The support
> for big, multi-language projects looks particularly useful.

Does that mean you can add languages ?  I thought it only did Ada and C*.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Steve Doiel]

I do however have one complaint (already).  The name.  Just go to google and
try finding the IDE by searching fro GPS.

SteveD

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <GxlA8.36691$D%5.6083@sccrnsc01>, "Steve Doiel" <nospam_steved94@attbi.com> writes:
> I do however have one complaint (already).  The name.  Just go to google and
> try finding the IDE by searching fro GPS.

Yes, it certainly is the same as Montran's lastest bank transfer product.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Marin David Condic]

From a marketing standpoint, its probably a mistake to name it after a
popular satelite based navigation system. Maybe the acronym gets some
instant name recognition, but people will be confused. It could also be
misleading when people put on their resumes that they know all about GPS
(the programming system) and have the headhunters calling with Global
Positioning System jobs.

Arguably, it is probably wise not to mention "Ada" in the name since there
will be whole gobs of people who would instantly dismiss the tools as being
ancient-history, anti-Ada bias, etc. Better to sneak that in after you get
the foot in the door.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message
news:ujyL+eS6sFxY@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>
> Yes, it certainly is the same as Montran's lastest bank transfer product.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Robert Dewar]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote in message news:<aau2tk$l51$1@nh.pace.co.uk>...

> From a marketing standpoint, its probably a mistake to
> name it after a popular satelite based navigation system.

The name of the system is the GNAT Programming System. The
informal acronym (which is not the official name of the
product) does indeed have an interesting overloading, and
if it gets people to argue about the name, that's OK with
us :-) A lot of people presumed to advise us that GNAT was
a bad choice from a marketing point of view, but it seems
to have worked out pretty well :-)

I would ask that if there are those who have nothing better
to do with their time than argue over the name that they
start a different thread. It will probably be more useful
to more people if this thread concentrates on other perhaps
more important aspects of the GNAT Programming System.

P.S. The reason there is no Ada in the name is that this
product is not Ada specific, it contains for example full
browsing capabilities for C++. We see this as necessary for
our Ada customers, many of whom are doing mixed language
programming involving Ada, C and/or C++.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

And if Marin is worried about confusion on his resume, I
definitely advise using the proper name of the product in
this context, and not the informal acronym!

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Wes Groleau]

> And if Marin is worried about confusion on his resume, I
> definitely advise using the proper name of the product in
> this context, and not the informal acronym!

Or let it get you in the door, and then persuade them you're
neither incompetent nor dishonest.  :-)

-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Per Sandbergs]

If this is what it looks like on the ads. (The .pdf presentations on ACT
homepage), i would say:
At last one decent programing environment for Ada is slowly emerging (after
the Rational DELTA environment where ther only was two big drawbacks memory
and CPU, at that time it took us at least 3 weeks of computer time to
recompile our  systems from scratch).

The things I like are:
* The projects that makes it easy to implement a component based development
model (been using it for a while).
* Ther are no propriary binary formats used.
* The portability (The bulk of the code is written in Ada).
* The look of the IDE that makes it possible to promote Ada as a language
for people that are used to MS VC++ and look alikes.

/Per Sandberg
/Manager of Infrastructure& System Integrator & Toolsmith.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Preben Randhol]

On Sun, 5 May 2002 21:35:59 +0200, Per Sandbergs wrote:
> The things I like are:
> * The projects that makes it easy to implement a component based development
> model (been using it for a while).
> * Ther are no propriary binary formats used.
> * The portability (The bulk of the code is written in Ada).
> * The look of the IDE that makes it possible to promote Ada as a language
> for people that are used to MS VC++ and look alikes.

I'll add

* Possibility to embed other editors


Preben

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Robert Dewar]

Preben Randhol <randhol+abuse@pvv.org> wrote in message news:<slrnadcku7.b7d.randhol+abuse@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no>...

> * Possibility to embed other editors

Note that this can mean one of two things. If you just want to use an
editor to edit files, it is of course trivial to embed the editor in
this sense. But if you want to embed an editor with full browsing
capability, that is fully Ada semantic aware, that takes more work,
and of course rquires an editor that is programmable so that it can
read the necessary data.

GPS will support its own embedded editor (that's the edior I use for
most purposes these days), and EMACS. Those are the editors that we
will fully support (in the deeper embedding with browsing etc) sense
above. It is quite likely that others will embed other editors. One
of the design points of GPS is that it is naturally open to such
endeavors :-)

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Preben Randhol]

On 6 May 2002 14:52:43 -0700, Robert Dewar wrote:
> 
> GPS will support its own embedded editor (that's the edior I use for
> most purposes these days), and EMACS. Those are the editors that we
> will fully support (in the deeper embedding with browsing etc) sense
> above. It is quite likely that others will embed other editors. One
> of the design points of GPS is that it is naturally open to such
> endeavors :-)

:-) I hope one can embed the GTK version of vim as it only said vi in
the slides (there is a gtk widget of vim if I recall correctly) could be
embedded even if not deep embedded. Depending on how GPS will be,
perhaps it is possible to contribute some code for deeper binding of
this too. :-)

Preben

GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

Is it?

Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the 'new'
statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that isn't available in
other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda etc. Possibly more by default,
but...

I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
between GPS and GPS.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Is it?
> 
> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the 
> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
> etc. Possibly more by default, but...

Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
which you want the sources available, because you may want
to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
that this is a really very significant point.
 
> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible 
> confusion between GPS and GPS.

Well so far, it seem to be helping spread the name recognition, which
is the general idea :-) What could
be better than people arguing over the name to create
name recognition?

If all the world divides up into those who think its confusing that
GPS is called GPS, and those who don't
think so, then all the world knows the name :-) :-)

At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a 
little bug :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Martin Dowie]

"Robert Dewar" <dewar@gnat.com> wrote in message
news:5ee5b646.0205071834.3b5c959@posting.google.com...
> Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
> is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
> which you want the sources available, because you may want
> to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
> that this is a really very significant point.

Any idea when we can get hold of these sources?
Or the full blown public GPS for that matter? :-)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Wed, 8 May 2002 08:49:11 +0100, Martin Dowie wrote:
> Any idea when we can get hold of these sources?
> Or the full blown public GPS for that matter? :-)

I guess we should be patient until Q4 at least :-)

Preben

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On 7 May 2002 19:34:15 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:

>john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Is it?
>> 
>> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the 
>> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
>> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
>> etc. Possibly more by default, but...
>
>Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
>is that GPS is Free Software.

What about KDevelop?

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Martin Dowie]

"John McCabe" <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote in message
news:3cd8df06.1732721@news.demon.co.uk...
[snip]
> >Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
> >is that GPS is Free Software.
>
> What about KDevelop?

Unix-only :-(

Looks lovely though!!

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Wed, 8 May 2002 09:34:45 +0100, Martin Dowie wrote:
> Unix-only :-(

Also made in C++, for C/C++ development.

Preben

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Wes Groleau]

> At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a
> little bug :-)

Or with lots of little bugs?

(Kidding, folks--GNAT is a GREAT compiler)

-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[Toshitaka Kumano]

Robert Dewar wrote:
> At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a
> little bug :-)

I always wonder why the great compiler has such a misleading
name :-)

When I saw the name at first on 1994, I, as a programmer,
thought it should be an acronym, irrelevant to insects. 

And how surprised I was when I found a cute bug fluttering
on the brochure!
 # at Japan SIG Ada on 1996 if I remember correctly.

Since then I, as a Japanese programmer, consider that
the name might be a jokey one, OR that the English word "bug"
should mean, if anything, Coleoptera like a ladybug,
not Diptera like a gnat :-)


Anyway, we may see many GNAT issues in *GNATS* after the release
of GCC 3.1 :-)

# ADA, GPS, GLADE, etc... We may need visibility rules here :-)
-- 
Toshitaka Kumano

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[John McCabe]

On Thu, 09 May 2002 05:42:24 +0900, Toshitaka Kumano
<kumano@cl.cilas.net> wrote:

>When I saw the name at first on 1994, I, as a programmer,
>thought it should be an acronym, irrelevant to insects. 

Err - it *is* an acronym, for GNU Ada Translator.

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[Martin Dowie]

"John McCabe" <john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3cda2fc8.1578790@news.demon.co.uk...
> >When I saw the name at first on 1994, I, as a programmer,
> >thought it should be an acronym, irrelevant to insects.
>
> Err - it *is* an acronym, for GNU Ada Translator.

Isn't the story now that is *was* an acronym but doesn't
stand for anything now?

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[Florian Weimer]

john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) writes:

> On Thu, 09 May 2002 05:42:24 +0900, Toshitaka Kumano
> <kumano@cl.cilas.net> wrote:
>
>>When I saw the name at first on 1994, I, as a programmer,
>>thought it should be an acronym, irrelevant to insects. 
>
> Err - it *is* an acronym, for GNU Ada Translator.

Once upon a time, there was an Ada compiler called the GNU Ada
Translater, but nowadays, GNAT is just GNAT.

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[Wes Groleau]

> >When I saw the name at first on 1994, I, as a programmer,
> >thought it should be an acronym, irrelevant to insects.
> 
> Err - it *is* an acronym, for GNU Ada Translator.

Actually GNU NYU Ada Translator.
         G   N   A   T

but if the creators want to declare
a new interpretation, I won't argue.

-- 
Wes Groleau
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[John McCabe]

On Thu, 09 May 2002 08:44:40 -0500, Wes Groleau
<wesgroleau@despammed.com> wrote:

>> Err - it *is* an acronym, for GNU Ada Translator.

>Actually GNU NYU Ada Translator.
>         G   N   A   T

Oops - of course.

>but if the creators want to declare
>a new interpretation, I won't argue.

I wasn't aware that they had, but if that *is* the case then it's fair
enough.

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[Pascal Obry]

john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) writes:

> I wasn't aware that they had, but if that *is* the case then it's fair
> enough.

The problem was with "Translator", a lot of peoples thought that GNAT
translated Ada to C and then compile. This is wrong as everybody knows at
this point.

Pascal.

-- 

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry                           Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--|         http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[John McCabe]

On 09 May 2002 17:35:31 +0200, Pascal Obry <p.obry@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

>
>john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) writes:
>
>> I wasn't aware that they had, but if that *is* the case then it's fair
>> enough.
>
>The problem was with "Translator", a lot of peoples thought that GNAT
>translated Ada to C and then compile. This is wrong as everybody knows at
>this point.

Yes - that was an *extremely* common misconception, even though it
could have made some sense (well, for Ada83 I guess). I made it myself
actually until I was put right.

Re: OT:GNAT (Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?)

[Preben Randhol]

On Thu, 09 May 2002 08:44:40 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
> Actually GNU NYU Ada Translator.
>          G   N   A   T
> 
> but if the creators want to declare
> a new interpretation, I won't argue.

Perhaps it now is:

GNAT Not A Translator
G    N   A T

It should also fulfil the recursiveness of GNU abbreviations ;-)

Preben
-- 
�There are three things you can do to a woman. You can love her, suffer
 for her, or turn her into literature.�  - Justine, by Lawrence Durrell

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

-----Original Message-----
From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org
[mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Robert Dewar
Sent: quarta-feira, 8 de Maio de 2002 3:34
To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?


john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message
news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Is it?
> 
> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the
> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
> etc. Possibly more by default, but...

Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
which you want the sources available, because you may want
to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
that this is a really very significant point.
 
> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible
> confusion between GPS and GPS.

Well so far, it seem to be helping spread the name recognition, which is
the general idea :-) What could be better than people arguing over the
name to create name recognition?

If all the world divides up into those who think its confusing that GPS
is called GPS, and those who don't think so, then all the world knows
the name :-) :-)

At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a 
little bug :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies _______________________________________________
comp.lang.ada mailing list
comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

-----Original Message-----
From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org
[mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Robert Dewar
Sent: quarta-feira, 8 de Maio de 2002 3:34
To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?


john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) wrote in message
news:<3cd7b506.11293318@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Is it?
> 
> Actually looks brilliant to me, but I would question the
> 'new' statement - doesn't seem to be much in there that 
> isn't available in other tools like Visual C++, ObjectAda 
> etc. Possibly more by default, but...

Well one big difference between GPS and these other systems
is that GPS is Free Software. If there ever was a case in
which you want the sources available, because you may want
to modify things, an IDE is such a case :-) We consider
that this is a really very significant point.
 
> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible
> confusion between GPS and GPS.

Well so far, it seem to be helping spread the name recognition, which is
the general idea :-) What could be better than people arguing over the
name to create name recognition?

If all the world divides up into those who think its confusing that GPS
is called GPS, and those who don't think so, then all the world knows
the name :-) :-)

At least so far no one confused our Ada compiler with a 
little bug :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies _______________________________________________
comp.lang.ada mailing list
comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Richard Riehle]

John McCabe wrote:

> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> between GPS and GPS.

Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
but it's obviously not my call.

Richard Riehle

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Thu, 09 May 2002 19:22:57 -0700, Richard Riehle wrote:
> 
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.

http://gpe.handhelds.org/index.shtml

Preben
-- 

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Peter Hermann]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote:
> John McCabe wrote:
>> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
>> between GPS and GPS.
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.
> Richard Riehle

I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.
It is also not pleasant to have e.g. several "GLIDE"s, "GLADE"s etc.
and I would wonder about someone who called his product e.g "USA"
or "LA" etc..
Even Ada does not allow to use its 69 keywords as ordinary identifiers ;-)

-- 
--Peter Hermann(49)0711-685-3611 fax3758 ica2ph@csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de
--Pfaffenwaldring 27 Raum 114, D-70569 Stuttgart Uni Computeranwendungen
--http://www.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de/homes/ph/
--Team Ada: "C'mon people let the world begin" (Paul McCartney)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Stephen Leake]

Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:

> I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.

Assuming you mean "Global Positioning Satellite", I think that is in a
sufficiently different domain that overloading with "GNAT Programming
System" is clear from context. There are only so many meaningful three
letter acronyms!

> It is also not pleasant to have e.g. several "GLIDE"s, "GLADE"s etc.

I only know of one GLIDE, but I do know of two GLADEs; one is the GNAT
distributed annex implementation, one the Gtk GUI builder. I agree
these are from sufficiently similar domains that the overloading is
sometimes confusing.

> and I would wonder about someone who called his product e.g "USA" or
> "LA" etc.. Even Ada does not allow to use its 69 keywords as
> ordinary identifiers ;-)

I like the name US Robotics, even if they don't make robots anymore
:). Hmm, guess they got bought by 3Com.

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[David C. Hoos]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Leake" <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?


> Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:
> 
> > I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.
> 
> Assuming you mean "Global Positioning Satellite", I think that is in a
> sufficiently different domain that overloading with "GNAT Programming
> System" is clear from context. There are only so many meaningful three
> letter acronyms!
> 
Well, maybe it's not so well-known -- GPS really means
Global Positioning System.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Marin David Condic]

"David C. Hoos" <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1021042382.31524.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Leake" <stephen.a.leake.1@gsfc.nasa.gov>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
> To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?
>
>
> > Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> writes:
> >
> > > I strongly recommend to let GPS its well known original definition.
> >
> > Assuming you mean "Global Positioning Satellite", I think that is in a
> > sufficiently different domain that overloading with "GNAT Programming
> > System" is clear from context. There are only so many meaningful three
> > letter acronyms!
> >
> Well, maybe it's not so well-known -- GPS really means
> Global Positioning System.
>
And the domains aren't all that separate. Ada and GPS (the navigation
thingie) are often coupled together. I worked with both Ada and GPS before
there was an announcement of GPS, so GPS came before GPS and when GPS
finally exists one might use GPS to program GPS... Go figure... :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote in message news:<abgq4f$pai$1@nh.pace.co.uk>...

> and when GPS
> finally exists one might use GPS to program GPS... 

Sounds like a reasonable proposition to me, and we are talking to one
large customer who is planning to do exactly that :-)

Now of course if a programmer clicks on an identifier to go to the
declaration, and thinks that this is being achieved by communicating
with satellites buzzing around the earth, *that* would be confusion :-)

Meanwhile, for a product not even released yet, we seem to be getting
quite a bit of name recognition from this discussion!

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[James Ross]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 09:52:00 -0500, "David C. Hoos"
<david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote:

>Well, maybe it's not so well-known -- GPS really means
>Global Positioning System.

Why should Global Positioning System have exclusive dibs on the
acronym? According to http://www.acronymfinder.com GPS can mean any
one of the following:

Global Positioning System    
Galapagos Islands, Ecuador - Baltra (Airport Code)    
Gallons Per Second    
Gas Pressure Switch    
General Problem Solver    
General Purpose Segment    
General Purpose Separator (at CERN)    
Generalized Phase Shift    
Generalized Processor Sharing    
Geophysical Processor System    
Geophysical Products System    
German Philatelic Society    
Global Priority Service    
Global Product Support    
Go Pound Sand    
Graphical Programming Software    
Great Plains Software    
Ground Processing Station    
Groundwater Protection Strategy    
Guidance Power Supply  
Gunner's Primary Sight    
The Gap, Inc. (stock symbol)  

I Personally like General Problem Solver & Graphical Programming
Software the best :-)
JR

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Sun, 12 May 2002 19:12:56 GMT, James Ross wrote:
> 
> I Personally like General Problem Solver & Graphical Programming
> Software the best :-)

I bet somebody holds the software patents on those in the US too ?

Preben

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

Peter Hermann <ica2ph@iris16.csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote in message news:<abg81p$341$1@news.uni-stuttgart.de>...
> Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote:
>  to have e.g. several "GLIDE"s, "GLADE"s etc.
> and I would wonder about someone who called his product 
> e.g "USA"
> or "LA" etc..
How about someone who calls his product Ada

= American Dental Association
= Americans for Democratic Action
= Americans with Disability Act

And I am only including the very familiar uses of this
name, there are many others. The third is fun, there is
a nice poster with a big picture of Clinton, with the
caption "I ask you to support ADA", unfortunately it 
is not our Ada.

As for USA, to what are you referring?

United Space Alliance
The television network
USA.NET, the ebusiness company

Again, I only mention the very familiar uses (did I
leave one out? :-)

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

On names.

ADA

<<
. . .
= American Dental Association
= Americans for Democratic Action
= Americans with Disability Act
. . .
>> (Dewar)

= Ada Distributed Application :-)

And I think "GPS" is fine for the system.

Cheers,
--MAA

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Richard Riehle]

Robert Dewar wrote:

> As for USA, to what are you referring?
>
> United Space Alliance
> The television network
> USA.NET, the ebusiness company
>
> Again, I only mention the very familiar uses (did I
> leave one out? :-)

Union of South Africa?

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On 10 May 2002 08:46:43 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:

>How about someone who calls his product Ada
>
>= American Dental Association
>= Americans for Democratic Action
>= Americans with Disability Act

These are all acronyms though (ADA) rather than names (Ada).

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <3ce0d39d.4534910@news.demon.co.uk>, john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) writes:
> On 10 May 2002 08:46:43 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:
> 
>>How about someone who calls his product Ada
>>
>>= American Dental Association
>>= Americans for Democratic Action
>>= Americans with Disability Act
> 
> These are all acronyms though (ADA) rather than names (Ada).

There are advertisements for ADA programmers.  Sometimes they mean
Ada and sometimes they mean web designers who can make pages that
comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

There are also advertisements for VAX programmers that really mean
Alpha VMS programmers.

I am happy that Ada language processors are much less forgiving than
English language processors.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message news:<3CDB2F01.78B66E87@adaworks.com>...
> John McCabe wrote:
> 
> > I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> > between GPS and GPS.
> 
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.

Actually for us, it seems an unexpected benefit for people to be
arguing about the name -- definitely very helpful ;-)

We like the name, so it is likely to stay :-)

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message news:<3CDB2F01.78B66E87@adaworks.com>...

> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.

Just to keep people updated on the state of the software itself
(which I suspect for most people is more interesting than the
the name :-), we are progressing towards the next internal
release, and will be commencing formal beta testing very
shortly (we will be letting our customers know more details
as the exact schedule is worked out). We still consider that
things are on track for a release of the GNAT Programming
System for GNAT Pro in the fourth quarter.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies

P.S. I am in the process of switching from my OS/2 based
environment to a GPS based environment, so I am getting to
know and like this environment quite well :-)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Stephen Leake]

dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) writes:

> Just to keep people updated on the state of the software itself
> (which I suspect for most people is more interesting than the
> the name :-), 

I'm certainly more interested in the software, but the name is all we
have at the moment :).

Here's a real question that was not answered by the pdf files: is
there a scripting language in GPS? One of the best features of Emacs
(my current favorite IDE) is that it provides a very powerful
scripting language. Some would say that is also it's most intimidating
feature. Perhaps a less powerful scripting language would be
appropriate for GPS. 

At the very least, I want to be able to bind keys to predefined
operations. Beyond that, I'd like user-defined keyboard macros, and
simple scripted macros that call predefined operations. Beyond that,
I'd like elisp, but possibly with a more Ada-like syntax :). Maybe
TPU?

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Rajat Datta]

In article <uit5w2ijg.fsf@gsfc.nasa.gov>, Stephen Leake wrote:
> At the very least, I want to be able to bind keys to predefined
> operations. Beyond that, I'd like user-defined keyboard macros, and
> simple scripted macros that call predefined operations. Beyond that,
> I'd like elisp, but possibly with a more Ada-like syntax :). Maybe
> TPU?

Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
replaceable with emacs (which some of us die hard emacs users are very
grateful for, since its keystroke combinations are by now hard-wired
into our neurons), at least 95% of anything you do on an IDE will be
configurable.

rajat

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
wrote:

>Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
>replaceable with emacs

But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Robert Dewar]

john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3ce0d415.4655263@news.demon.co.uk>...
> On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
> >replaceable with emacs
> 
> But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
> integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
> tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.

Given that GPS is intended as a major upgrade for current GLIDE users,
who of course are used to EMACS, I think you can safely assume the
answer to this one. The architecture is quite open and can support
multiple editors with full functionality. The trouble with Visual C++
is that it is a closed architecture, so of course it is much harder
to integrate other editors fully.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[John McCabe]

On 14 May 2002 07:16:14 -0700, dewar@gnat.com (Robert Dewar) wrote:

>john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3ce0d415.4655263@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
>> >replaceable with emacs
>> 
>> But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
>> integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
>> tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.
>
>Given that GPS is intended as a major upgrade for current GLIDE users,
>who of course are used to EMACS, I think you can safely assume the
>answer to this one.

I don't like to assume anything :-) but if I can assume that setting
breakpoints in the debugger etc from Emacs is supported, and jumping
to error line then I would be very happy.

>The architecture is quite open and can support
>multiple editors with full functionality. The trouble with Visual C++
>is that it is a closed architecture, so of course it is much harder
>to integrate other editors fully.

This is very true.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Ted Dennison]

john.nospam@nospamassen.nospamdemon.co.uk (John McCabe) wrote in message news:<3ce0d415.4655263@news.demon.co.uk>...
> On Fri, 10 May 2002 15:18:03 GMT, Rajat Datta <rajat@austin.rr.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Well, given--from what little we know--that the editor component is
> >replaceable with emacs
> 
> But will you lose any functionality by using Emacs instead of the
> integral editor? E.g, with Visual C++ you can use Emacs, but you lose
> tons of the functionality unless you start running VisEmacs with it.

From what I read in the slides, Emacs is integrated, as is the default
editor. If you use any other editor, the level of integration (past
simply being invoked) is nil. But since the sources are available, you
can change that (assuming your editor cooperates).

As for Emacs *really* being integrated as well as the default editor,
I'll wait and see.

-- 
T.E.D. 
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Arnaud Charlet]

> Here's a real question that was not answered by the pdf files: is
> there a scripting language in GPS? One of the best features of Emacs
> (my current favorite IDE) is that it provides a very powerful
> scripting language. Some would say that is also it's most intimidating
> feature. Perhaps a less powerful scripting language would be
> appropriate for GPS.

Right, that's what is planned.
Currently you can easily change colors, fonts, define key bindings, add
menu items.
The next step will be to have a GPS shell where you have access to all
the GPS high level capabilities, and that every module could have access
to, including external processes. This won't be quite as powerful as
elisp,
but I believe that in practice, this will be enough, and less
frightening.
And if that's still not enough, as Robert said, there's always the
possibility to write Ada code to enhance GPS.

Arno

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 17:34:18 +0200, Arnaud Charlet wrote:
> The next step will be to have a GPS shell where you have access to all
> the GPS high level capabilities, and that every module could have
> access to, including external processes. This won't be quite as
> powerful as elisp, but I believe that in practice, this will be
> enough, and less frightening.  And if that's still not enough, as
> Robert said, there's always the possibility to write Ada code to
> enhance GPS.

Will it be something like BUSH ?

Preben
-- 
Preben Randhol

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Marin David Condic]

I looked over the tour of GPS and was suitably whelmed. This is the sort of
thing that Ada needs to have available. (Which obviously leads to the
question of if/when it will be available to the general public - or, more
precisely, mere mortals who can't afford ACT support contracts. :-) It looks
incredibly spiffy and really fills a major gap that has existed between Ada
and other languages.

But I'd have to agree that (while name recognition is nice) colliding names
with a popular navigation system (especially given the context in which Ada
has traditionally been a big deal) is likely to lead to confusion. It is
most likely to cause trouble with web searches. ("Hey I heard these guys
talking about something called 'GPS' on this newsgroup and they seemed to be
thrilled about it. Gee... I wonder if I can find out more about it from
Google???") Or in word-of-mouth communication (Think of the overheard
conversation where someone goes "Oh yeah. I know all about that thing 'GPS'
they're talking about. I don't need to investigate further." I once had a
headhunter presume that "Adabas" had something to do with "Ada" on my resume
and clearly she didn't know what she was talking about, but kept sending
inquiries anyway.)

That's my $0.02 worth of input on it, but as you observe, that's not our
call. But if a dozen people tell you that you look sick, maybe you need to
lie down and rest a while no matter how good you feel? :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com


"Richard Riehle" <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message
news:3CDB2F01.78B66E87@adaworks.com...
>
> Maybe it's not too late to change the name to GPE, for
> Gnat Programming Environment.   I rather like that better,
> but it's obviously not my call.
>

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Ted Dennison]

"Marin David Condic" <dont.bother.mcondic.auntie.spam@[acm.org> wrote in message news:<abghjk$l3v$1@nh.pace.co.uk>...
> I looked over the tour of GPS and was suitably whelmed. This is the sort of
> thing that Ada needs to have available. (Which obviously leads to the

More to the point, it is the sort of thing that Linux and the Free
Software world needs in general (it does C++ too), and it just happens
to be written in Ada. *That* is precicely the sort of thing that Ada
needs. :-)

Bravo ACT.

-- 
T.E.D. 
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down)

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Florian Weimer]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) writes:

> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> between GPS and GPS.

In Germany, there is also also "Burda gps", a registrated trademark
covering computer programs, a pending registration of "A-GPS"
(probably a computer program, too), a registred trademark "GPS"
(covering "creation of computer programs"), "GPS SoftwareAtlas"
(similar), "GPS" (for "programming services", "GPS" means
"Gesellschaft f�r Gesch�ftsproze�-Software").  These are all
registrations related to computer programs, so you better shouldn't
call the GNAT Programming System "GPS" on a web page.

I'd be surprised if the trademark situation would be different in the
United States.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Florian Weimer]

john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com (John McCabe) writes:

> I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> between GPS and GPS.

In Germany, there is also also "Burda gps", a registrated trademark
covering computer programs, a pending registration of "A-GPS"
(probably a computer program, too), a registred trademark "GPS"
(covering "creation of computer programs"), "GPS SoftwareAtlas"
(similar), "GPS" (for "programming services", "GPS" means
"Gesellschaft f�r Gesch�ftsproze�-Software").  These are all
registrations related to computer programs, so you better shouldn't
call the GNAT Programming System "GPS" on a web page.

I'd be surprised if the trademark situation was different in the
United States.

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Georg Bauhaus]

John McCabe <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote:
: 
: I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
: between GPS and GPS.

Could we pronounce GPS "gypsy"?

-- Georg

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Ted Dennison]

Georg Bauhaus <sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> wrote in message news:<abodo0$9s$2@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de>...
> John McCabe <john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com> wrote:
> : 
> : I also agree with someone else who suggested the possible confusion
> : between GPS and GPS.
> 
> Could we pronounce GPS "gypsy"?

That's interesting. Whereas gnats are notorious for just being
annoying, gypsy moths are a downright menace. :-)

(reference - http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/morgantown/4557/gmoth/ )

-- 
T.E.D. 
Home     -  mailto:dennison@telepath.com (Yahoo: Ted_Dennison)
Homepage -  http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html (down)

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Antonio Duran]

"Steve Doiel" <nospam_steved94@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<9Y1A8.25350$D%5.3478@sccrnsc01>...
> I just had a peek at the PDF file giving a detailed tour of GPS on
> http://www.gnat.com.  This looks like it is going to be a very cool tool
> when it is available :-)
> 
> SteveD

In the late 80s I was involved in the development of the NATO APSE, so
despite of the time passed I'm still interested in APSEs. I guess GPS
will be an APSE in the full definition of the term. But, is there any
KAPSE below it?. I don't mind things like CAIS or PCTE with a node
model but a set of public API's that allow new or third party tools to
be easily integrated in that environment.

Antonio Dur�n

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Martin Dowie]

"Steve Doiel" <nospam_steved94@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:9Y1A8.25350$D%5.3478@sccrnsc01...
> I just had a peek at the PDF file giving a detailed tour of GPS on
> http://www.gnat.com.  This looks like it is going to be a very cool tool
> when it is available :-)

What is "GNSA"? as mentioned in the 90k SLOC lines under
"GPS Architecture" on slide 9 of the short tour.

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Preben Randhol]

On Tue, 28 May 2002 11:49:20 +0100, Martin Dowie wrote:
> 
> What is "GNSA"? as mentioned in the 90k SLOC lines under
> "GPS Architecture" on slide 9 of the short tour.

Just guessing: 

Gnat Navigation System Architecture ?

I see there is a unit for Navigation. Perhaps it is the classbrowser ++
?

Preben

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[Sergey I. Rybin]

> What is "GNSA"? as mentioned in the 90k SLOC lines under

GNSA is GNat Semantic Analyzer. Roughly speaking, it is a GNAT
front-end which can easily be built from sources, which has the
command line interface very similar to GNAT interface and which can be
used as a semantic checker for Ada units (and as a means to create
the tree files to be used by ASIS and ASIS applications)

Sergey Rybin

Re: GNAT Programming System - Wow

[John McCabe]

On Tue, 28 May 2002 17:09:56 +0400, "Sergey I. Rybin" <rybin@gnat.com>
wrote:

>> What is "GNSA"? as mentioned in the 90k SLOC lines under
>
>GNSA is GNat Semantic Analyzer. Roughly speaking, it is a GNAT
>front-end which can easily be built from sources, which has the
>command line interface very similar to GNAT interface and which can be
>used as a semantic checker for Ada units (and as a means to create
>the tree files to be used by ASIS and ASIS applications)

So how would one pronounce GNSA?

RE: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Mário Amado Alves]

Sorry. I accidently hit the Reply button in repetition. Now you all know
I was lurking...
--MAA

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Alexandre E. Kopilovitch]

I found it slightly strange that so many people dislike the name GPS for new
ACT's contribution. For me, this name seems good enough... let's consider some
aspects of that title.
  First, yes, there is an obvious collision, but those GPS'es are from the
different areas, and the intersection of these areas is quite limited. After all,
we see the last names like Smith very often, and very rarely we have a chance
for confusing a man named Smith with a man, which is a smith by profession.
So it is with those GPS'es: one is generic name for a class of devices, while
another is the title for a particular software system - that is, the first is
like "smith", and the second is like "Smith". And at last, ACT's GPS surely
will have versions, and a good part of occurencies will mention not simply
GPS, but GPS n.nn .
  Second, if the ACT's GPS were for Ada language only then perhaps the name
AIDE could be better, but as the ACT's GPS supports multiple languages, there
is little chance to find a simultaneous hit.
  Third, I believe that any good moderm IDE should have a functionality that
really serves the same need as a GPS device does, but relative to a code inventory
instead of the geographical maps. And such a functionality is critically significant
for programmer's productivity, So I think that the title "GPS" may be justified
as a metaphor also.


Alexander Kopilovitch                      aek@vib.usr.pu.ru
Saint-Petersburg
Russia

  

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Oliver Kellogg]

On 2002-05-08 01:17:01 PST, John McCabe (john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com) wrote:

> What about KDevelop?

I'm looking into this.
(Just finished the general purpose ANTLR grammar for Ada95.
Next comes augmenting it with the kdevelop adasupport specific AST.)

Oliver M. Kellogg

-- okellogg at users dot sourceforge dot net

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Preben Randhol]

Oliver Kellogg wrote:
> On 2002-05-08 01:17:01 PST, John McCabe (john.mccabe@emrad.ns.com) wrote:
> 
>> What about KDevelop?
> 
> I'm looking into this.
> (Just finished the general purpose ANTLR grammar for Ada95.
> Next comes augmenting it with the kdevelop adasupport specific AST.)

Nice!

-- 
Preben Randhol ---------------- http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ --
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", Isaac Asimov

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Oliver Kellogg]

I've just bumped into an interesting data point on
parser contruction with ANTLR regarding parse speed.
ANTLR supports syntactic predicates such as

  (subprog_body) => subprog_body

where the rule subprog_body is applied on trial
and if it turns out not to apply then the parser backs
out and applies the next rule. Terence Parr, inventor
of ANTLR, calls this "infinite lookahead".

This feature makes for a prettier grammar because
it allows more liberal reuse of rules. In the above
example, we can write the subprog_body rule in a
place where also a subprog_spec could be expected;
the parser takes care of resolving the ambiguity.

However, that beauty has its price.

As a test, I submitted the source code of the
Ada Graphics Package (agp95_v0.1_x11/src) to parsing
(38560 LOC, 11851 executable semicolons.)

With usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
distinction ("pretty" soft-state grammar rule):

real    1m16.635s
user    1m15.930s
sys     0m0.300s

Without usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
distinction ("ugly" hard-coded state):

real    0m46.058s
user    0m45.110s
sys     0m0.370s

So for kdevelop adasupport I'm going with the hard state rule
for subprograms.

Oliver Kellogg

Re: GPS - A new kind of IDE?

[Oliver Kellogg]

I need to correct myself on the data that I posted.

I was just about to switch from ANTLR to GNAT for disappointment
with the ANTLR parser speed when it occurred to me that I had been
compiling the ANTLR C++ runtime and the Ada grammar without -O
(optimize.)

After turning on -O, I've had quite a surprise.

Here are the timing figures (test case: Ada files of polyorb-snap-4566/src)

Without -O for runtime and lexer/parser:
real    2m41.298s
user    2m39.200s
sys     0m0.860s

With -O for runtime and lexer/parser:
real    0m9.895s
user    0m8.250s
sys     0m0.890s

For comparison, "gnatgcc -c -gnats" (which is roughly
comparable in effect to what the above parser does)
performs as follows:
real    0m4.042s
user    0m2.030s
sys     0m2.010s

So in this case the hand crafted parser (GNAT) is still
double as fast as the parser automatically generated
from a grammar (ANTLR.)  Not bad IMHO.


Oliver Kellogg wrote:
> I've just bumped into an interesting data point on
> parser contruction with ANTLR regarding parse speed.
> ANTLR supports syntactic predicates such as
>
>   (subprog_body) => subprog_body
>
> where the rule subprog_body is applied on trial
> and if it turns out not to apply then the parser backs
> out and applies the next rule. Terence Parr, inventor
> of ANTLR, calls this "infinite lookahead".
>
> This feature makes for a prettier grammar because
> it allows more liberal reuse of rules. In the above
> example, we can write the subprog_body rule in a
> place where also a subprog_spec could be expected;
> the parser takes care of resolving the ambiguity.
>
> However, that beauty has its price.
>
> As a test, I submitted the source code of the
> Ada Graphics Package (agp95_v0.1_x11/src) to parsing
> (38560 LOC, 11851 executable semicolons.)
>
> With usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
> distinction ("pretty" soft-state grammar rule):
>
> real    1m16.635s
> user    1m15.930s
> sys     0m0.300s
>
> Without usage of syntactic predicate for the subprog_spec/subprog_body
> distinction ("ugly" hard-coded state):
>
> real    0m46.058s
> user    0m45.110s
> sys     0m0.370s
>
> So for kdevelop adasupport I'm going with the hard state rule
> for subprograms.
>