Re: Teaching (was: Why don't large companies use Ada?)

[beidler@guinness.cs.uofs.edu (Jack Beidler)]

In article <3bfn7t$75j@felix.seas.gwu.edu>, mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) writes:
|> In article <3b9s34$m58@cleese.apana.org.au>,
|> Andrew Dunstan <andrew@bugalugs.apana.org.au> wrote:
|> 
|> >But your attack is wide of the mark. Languages should be used in teaching for
|> >their pedagogic values, not for their application in industrial use. I happen
|> >to think that Ada is well-suited to both purposes, but let us at least make
|> >the distinction clear. If students can be taught good programming practise
|> >with one tool, then picking up another language should be a snap. I don't even
|> >remember how many computer languages I have written in - I lost count somewhere
|> >in the 'teens.
|> 
|> Bingo.
|> 
|> We are tending more and more to blur the distinction Andrew points to,
|> and this is a real problem. I happen to agree that Ada is a good choice
|> for both purposes, and I think most teachers who have given Ada an honest
|> try in recent years have tended to agree. Many of the students do too.
|> 
   Let me relate an incident that occurred last summer --  Through our
local Chamber of Commerce, I met with high level executives (CEOs,
CI<information>Os, etc.) of 38 firms in our area that have 
significant software development staffs.  This includes several firms
whose local staffs develop software that is used nationally and
internationally.
   As the meeting was coming to an end I explained to them why we
use Ada as the foundation language for our CS, IS, and SE degree
programs (namely, we wish to emphasize concepts -- not only does
Ada not get in the way, but it actually helps with this goal).
   A number of participants insisted that we should offer courses
in C++ for their employees.  I stated that concepts are the issue.
Their typical C programmers do not appreciate the concepts, hence
need to understand concepts before they will make good use of C++.
The typical resonse from them was that they did not need the 
concepts, they just wanted to use C++ because that's were the
industry was going!!

   I am reminded of a comment made to me once (I believe it was
made by Rich Pattis).  "Just as today's good C programmers were
educated using Pascal, tomorrow's good C++ programmers will be
educated using Ada".

   I see this point made every year when students who have been 
using Ada in CS 2 and our Advanced Data Structures and Algorithms
Course take our Operating Systems Course.  The faculty member who
teaches that course requires student programs be written in C
(or C++).  The students learn the new language on their own.
His first response to student programs was that the student
programs don't look like typical C programs -- they are modularize,
you can read them, they use meaning variable names, etc.

   As for learning C or C++ in the first course, I am reminded of
an anti drinking and driving billboard "Drinking and driving is stoopid"
(spelled that way).  

               TEACHING C OR C++ IN THE FIRST COURSE IS STOOPID

     Teacher who teach such a course deserve the grade of C or C++
as an educator.  They certainly don't deserve tenure.
+----------------------------------------+------------------------+
|John (Jack) Beidler                    ++   beidler@cs.uofs.edu  |
|  Professor, Computing Sciences Dept. ++                         |
|  University of Scranton             ++  (717) 941-7446 (voice)  |
| Scranton, PA 18510                 ++     (717) 941-4250 (FAX)  |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------+