Re: Why don't large companies use Ada?

Re: Why don't large companies use Ada?

[Jeff Gray]

In article <D03AL2.5xw@aston.ac.uk>, Gareth Bromley writes:


>Why should they bother??
>
>Given that most students coming out of college/University will have some
>experience in programming some type of language Pascal, Modula-2/3, C
>and possibly BASIC plus any others and also most colleges/Universities
>provide courses in C, it is totally logical, and more important cost
>saving to send/train employees on C++ courses, and thus program systems
>in C++.

I have not seen a recent survey of language use (in terms of CS-1 and CS-2) in
U.S. universities. The last one that I am aware of, however, placed Ada second 
behind Pascal. Many students are coming out with Ada experience. Why not
utilize that experience?

>Why?
>
>i) Cost. If the user has a basic knowledge of C or other programming language
>then converting to C++ is relatively easy.

Relatively easy? Quickly converting C programmers to C++ may give them an
understanding of the syntactic differences between the two languages but
they will be sorely unprepared for understanding the proper way of applying
the object-oriented paradigm. The result will resemble the AdaTRAN programmers
of the early '80s.

>ii) Ada's complexity. Most new users will quickly come across all Ada's *nice*
>type checking, or special constructs which require a different syntax to normal.
>In other languages these are not required.

Nor are they always available. I have often found the type checking in Ada to
be a blessing rather than a hindrance.

>iii) Support. Virtually every computer system in the world has a C++ compiler,
>and it is being updated continually. Because that is where all the money is.
>Not every computer system in the world has Ada on it, plus most will not be
>powerful enough to run it.                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Aside from a Commodore 64 or Vic-20 (or even Timex Sinclair), could you give
me an example of some present day machines that can not support an Ada
compiler?


>iv) Libraries, Code already written and available experts. C++ has access straight
>away to all the C code libraries written. Not just a few nice ones, but all
>C library code ever written, one reason the famous COBOL is still around!
>Lots and lots of code has already been written in C++, and also any company can
>go out and get any number of C++ programmers, or even C ones and train them,
>whereas there are fewer Ada programmers.

Lots and Lots of code is also available from some of the repositories like
CARDS, ASSET, AdaNet (is it still called this anymore) and other suppliers.

Re: Why don't large companies use Ada?

[Michael Feldman]

In article <1994Dec1.043246.13829@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
Jeff Gray <jgray@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> wrote:

[snip]

>I have not seen a recent survey of language use (in terms of CS-1 and CS-2) in
>U.S. universities. The last one that I am aware of, however, placed Ada second 
>behind Pascal. Many students are coming out with Ada experience. Why not
>utilize that experience?

The latest Reid Report on CS-1 languages shows Ada in second place,
'way behind Pascal, which is still the champ by far. The Reid Report
data may be a bit misleading, though, because I do not know how
representative it is. Reid's survey consists of listings from schools
who voluntarily report by e-mail. He lists some 400 or so, but there
are several thousand worldwide. 

I can tell you that his Ada data is reaonably complete. There are a few
places he missed, but not too many, as far as I can tell. I know this
because I think I've tracked down most if not all of the Ada-in-Cs1/CS2
institutions. My list is in the next message; note that it shows _only_ 
CS1/CS2 uses of Ada, NOT "Ada courses" in general. BTW - the CS1 number has
increased _fourfold_ in the last three years, the CS2 number has
doubled. These data are pretty verifiable.

In comparing Reid's data, it is very dangerous, and IMHO not intellectually
honest, to look at raw percentages, because whereas his language A
listings might be nearly exhaustive (because language A has champions
working hard to ensure that language A teachers report to him), language
C or P or M or L might be only a sample, and who knows whether that
sample can be extrapolated across all schools? So we have no idea
what the Ada percentages are. I don't care, because "market share"
is a less important criterion for success than a continuing upward
trend, which is what we've got.

Reid posts updates to comp.edu twice a year or so. I'm hesitant to
post it here because I've seen the data misinterpreted too many times.

Later -

Mike Feldman

Colleges and Universities Using Ada as a Foundation Language

[Michael Feldman]

Ada as a Foundation Programming Language

Michael B. Feldman
Chair, ACM-SIGAda Education Working Group
Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052
(202) 994-5919 (voice) - (202) 994-0227 (fax)
mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu

November 1994

This report lists the colleges and universities known -- or at least credibly 
believed -- to have adopted Ada as a "foundation language," at CS1, CS2, 
or CS7 level in their computer science (or similar) curricula. I choose
to keep track of precisely these courses because they are taken by 
students in either first or second year, and thus early enough to serve
as a foundation upon which to build a large portion of the undergraduate 
software curriculum.

This data is, for the most part, verifiable, based on first-hand reports 
from the teachers of those courses. In a few cases, publishers' textbook 
adoption data was used. I would like to keep this list as complete and up to 
date as possible, so please let me know of any additions or corrections.

Group 1: Colleges and Universities Introducing Ada as the First Language
         Taught in an Undergraduate Computing Curriculum.

Allan Hancock College, California
Auburn University
Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra
Basque University, San Sebastian, Spain
Birmingham Southern College, Alabama
California State University, Long Beach
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden
Clemson University, South Carolina
Conservatoire National des Arts et Metiers, Paris,  France
Cranfield Institute of Technology, United Kingdom
Cypress College, California
Ecole Nationale Superieure des Telecommunications de Bretagne, France
Ecole Superieure en Sciences Informatiques, Nice, France
Edith Cowan University, Perth, Australia
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Arizona and Florida campuses
Florida Institute of Technology
Fayetteville State University, North Carolina
Flinders University, Australia
The George Washington University, Washington, DC
Indiana-Purdue University, Ft. Wayne
Institut National des Sciences Appliquees, Toulouse, France
Jerusalem College of Technology, Israel
LeMoyne College, New York
Lenoir-Rhyne College, North Carolina
Loyola Marymount University, California
Marion County Technical Center, West Virginia
Marshall University, West Virginia
Montana State University
Muskingum College, Ohio
National Defense Management College at Taiwan, Republic of China
Northeast Missouri State University
Northern Arizona University
Norwich University, Vermont
Otterbein College, Ohio
Portsmouth Polytechnic, United Kingdom
Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Australia
Royal Military Academy, Belgium
Sacred Heart College (Connecticut)
Saint Mary College, Kansas
Sam Houston State University, Texas
San Diego Mesa College, California
Santa Clara University
Seattle University
South Bank University, United Kingdom
Southampton Institute of Higher Education, United Kingdom
Southern Arkansas University
St. Cloud State Univ., Minnesota
State University of New York at Plattsburgh
Stockton College of New Jersey
Swinburne University of Technology, Australia
Technical College of Berlin, Germany
Technical University of Madrid (School of Telecommunications), Spain
United States Air Force Academy
University of Adelaide, Australia
University of Aston, United Kingdom
University of Bradford, United Kingdom
University of Canberra, Australia
University of Dayton, Ohio
University of Glamorgan, Wales, United Kingdom
University of Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
University of Lancaster, United Kingdom
University of Liverpool, United Kingdom
University of Maryland (University College)
University of Muenster, Germany
University of New Orleans
University of North Dakota
University of Paisley, United Kingdom
University of Rome at Tor Vergata, Italy
University of Salzburg, Austria
University of Sofia, Bulgaria
University of South Dakota
University of South Florida
University of Stafford, United Kingdom
University of Wales, Aberystwyth, United Kingdom
University of York, United Kingdom
Valparaiso University, Indiana
West Virginia University

Group 2: Colleges and Universities Not Introducing Ada as the First Language
         but Rather in a CS2 or Data Structures Course (or equivalent)

Briar Cliff College, Iowa
California Polytechnic State University, Pomona
California State University, Fullerton
College of West Virginia, Beckley
Daniel Webster College, New Hampshire
Davis and Elkins College, West Virginia
Ecole d'Ingenieurs de l'Etat de Vaud, Switzerland
Florida International University
Gallaudet University, Washington, DC
Georgia State University
Indiana University, New Albany
Mesa State College, Colorado
Monterey Peninsula College, California
Mount Mercy College, Iowa
Murray State University, Kentucky
National University, California
Nicholls State University, Louisiana
Northern Arizona University
Northern Kentucky University
Oglethorpe University, Georgia
Ohio University, Athens
Pennsylvania State University, Harrisburg
Rose Hulman Institute of Technology, Indiana
Southwest Baptist College, Missouri
Shippensburg University, Pennsylvania
State University of New York at Fredonia
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Lausanne
University of Alaska, Fairbanks
University of Brighton, United Kingdom
University of Geneva, Switzerland
University of Missouri, Columbia
University of Richmond, Virginia
University of Scranton, Pennsylvania
University of Seville, Spain
University of Texas, Austin
University of Texas, Permian Basin
Western New England College, Massachusetts