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From: "Don" <d_bleyl@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Future with Ada
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:26:02 GMT
Date: 2001-11-14T16:26:02+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3bf2aad6$1@MAIL.mhogaming.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3BF193F3.5090903@maciejsobczak.com


> Good idea. The problem is that you can learn and try many different
> languages as your own hobby, but when it comes to commerce, you're at
> the mercy of big companies, like M$ or Sun. You see, the problem with
> Ada (and recently with C++ - its market is shrinking, I think - esp. in
> Poland) is that they're *standard* languages. It means, that no company
> can close its market with any of those languages. Making compilers of
> Ada or C++ just does not pay well if people can migrate with their
> software from one compiler's vendor to another. M$ is better off
> investing big bucks into the C# development (and marketing), because
> once you get into the trap, you belong to them forever. The same is true
> for Sun with Java. You will never hear from them that C# and/or Java are
> far behind Ada and C++, even if M$ officially admits that C++ is the
> most extensively used language in the company (Windows, Office,
> Exchange, VStudio, all other stuff). I can bet that Sun still keeps lots
> of C/C++ programmers for server and OS development (and Java run-time,
> for that matter), too. So where this trend to Java/C# comes from? From
> money, of course. And there's a crowd that follows.
>

Good analysis--this issue has been on my mind for a while.  I'd like to add
that part of choosing a language is what you, as a developer, can learn.
Choosing a standardized general purpose (non-proprietary) language means
that you'll learn concepts that you can take with you to other languages.
The literature tends to be better: less marketing and hype.  More
flexibility and control.

When I was looking for another language to learn, I  considered Java, C# or
Ada.
I chose Ada because  I thought I could get more out of it in the long run.

> That's why I'm not so optimistic when it comes to the near future.
> Ada is fine (I try to learn it, too), I personally like C++ (and I think
> I know quite a bit of it), but don't ask me what I'm doing at work... :-(

If C# or Java becomes the lingua franca of programming, I'm confident that
knowledge of more flexible non-proprietary languages will help to master
these proprietary languages.  To a plain VB programmer, a Variant is some
mysterious type; to a VB programmer w/ C++ knowledge, it's a glorified
union, as simple as that.

The problem w/ these marketing machines is that they target the innocent and
ignorant.  If you have a non-tech client or manager who's been brainwashed
by all that rubbish, there's an opportunity to sell the virtues of your
prefered tool.  If it is in fact better, the benefits will ring true.  If
the benefits are tangible, but your audience is unconvinced, then you might
question whether you're at the right place.

So basically, (1) Find a place that values your opinion, might consider
letting you do some programming in different languages(maybe small or
non-tech). (2) Become an advocate. I became interested in Ada when someone
posted a logical, persuasive post in  the c++.moderated ng.  More
advocacy->more programmers->more visibility->more jobs.

-Don

























  reply	other threads:[~2001-11-14 16:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 264+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-11-09 17:59 Future with Ada Michal Nowak
2001-11-10  0:44 ` Adrian Hoe
2001-11-10 13:28 ` Frode Tennebø
2001-11-10 23:09   ` Michal Nowak
2001-11-11 15:10     ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-11 22:31       ` Michal Nowak
2001-11-10 17:31 ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-10 23:09   ` Michal Nowak
2001-11-25  9:50   ` ben
2001-11-26 15:21     ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-26 19:48       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-11-26 20:59         ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-26 23:33           ` Jerry Petrey
2001-11-27 14:24             ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-26 22:56         ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-01 18:43     ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-01 21:29       ` Suzie Cube
2001-12-10 16:25         ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-10 17:03           ` Larry Hazel
2001-12-10 17:19             ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-10 17:34               ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-10 18:10                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-12-10 18:25                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-02  0:19       ` IsraelRT
2001-12-02  0:46       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-12-02 19:58         ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-03 17:25           ` Wes Groleau
2001-12-10 16:39             ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-10 20:30               ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-11 15:15                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-11 16:56                   ` Darren New
2001-12-11 17:14                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-12  1:47                       ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-12  2:47                         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-12-12  6:38                           ` Mark Biggar
2001-12-12 10:53                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-12-12 14:35                               ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-12 17:45                                 ` Peter Hend�n
2001-12-12 19:35                                 ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-12 20:55                                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-16 13:34                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-12 14:55                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-12 18:02                           ` tmoran
2001-12-22 19:58                           ` Gerhard Häring
2001-12-28 21:12                             ` Containers package Eric Merritt
2001-12-29 14:11                               ` Michael Erdmann
2001-12-29 23:03                                 ` Eric Merritt
2001-12-31  2:58                                   ` Nick Roberts
2001-12-31 15:09                                     ` Eric Merritt
2001-12-31 23:19                                       ` Containers package (Tenet) Nick Roberts
2002-01-01  5:45                                     ` Containers package Ted Dennison
2002-01-01 23:30                                       ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-02  0:26                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-29 22:13                               ` Marc A. Criley
2001-12-12 21:49                       ` Future with Ada Darren New
2001-12-14 20:22                         ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-11 20:36                     ` XML and Ada was " Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-12  8:33                   ` rob
2001-12-12 15:03                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-16 13:48                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-16 16:17                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-16 16:21                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-17 15:10                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-17 22:32                           ` Ian S. Nelson
2001-12-17 23:11                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-18 15:49                             ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-18 16:41                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-19 16:33                                 ` Mr. Caffiene
2001-12-19 17:57                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-19 21:07                                     ` Ian S. Nelson
2001-12-19 21:20                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-19 18:36                                   ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-19 19:49                                     ` tmoran
2001-12-19 20:16                                       ` Eric Merritt
2001-12-19 21:11                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-21 14:15                                           ` Eric Merritt
2001-12-20 19:50                                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-20 21:37                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2001-12-21 15:42                                           ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-19 20:37                                     ` Ian S. Nelson
2001-12-19 23:36                                   ` Michal Nowak
2001-12-19 23:36                                 ` Michal Nowak
2002-01-21 22:28                                   ` Harri J Haataja
2001-12-18 12:56                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-12 17:03                     ` Ian S. Nelson
2001-12-13 17:43                     ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-13 20:13                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-14 19:49                         ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-14 19:59                           ` Pat Rogers
2001-12-14 21:00                             ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-14 23:02                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-12-17  8:15                                 ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-17 15:27                                   ` Pat Rogers
2001-12-17 16:29                                     ` Brian Rogoff
2001-12-17 17:05                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-17 15:43                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-17  8:15                               ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-17 16:03                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-17  8:15                             ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-14 20:31                           ` James Rogers
2001-12-15  1:33                             ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-15 16:35                               ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-16 14:09                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-12-16 15:32                                 ` Eric Merritt
2001-12-17 16:31                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-15  2:44                             ` Eric Merritt
2001-12-14 20:39                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-18 23:01                             ` Mark Lundquist
2001-12-19 15:00                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-20  7:23                                 ` tmoran
2001-12-20 22:30                                 ` tmoran
2001-12-20 22:43                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-19 20:50                               ` Wes Groleau
2001-12-19  0:12                             ` Portable GUI (was Re: Future with Ada) Mark Lundquist
2001-12-19  7:36                               ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-20  5:00                                 ` Steve Doiel
2001-12-20  6:19                                   ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-20 14:33                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-20 20:53                                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-20 21:14                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-21 14:53                                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-21 15:08                                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-21 16:40                                         ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-21 16:26                                   ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-12-19 15:07                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-19 15:14                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-19 16:53                               ` Darren New
2001-12-19 17:50                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-20 19:37                                   ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-20 20:05                                     ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-20 20:07                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-12-20 20:28                                     ` Stephen Leake
2001-12-21 17:18                                       ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-22 18:16                                     ` Michal Nowak
2001-12-02 20:26         ` Future with Ada Michal Nowak
2001-12-02 19:55       ` Michal Nowak
2001-12-03 14:53         ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-07 16:54         ` Richard Riehle
2001-12-07 17:14           ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-09 10:56           ` Thomas Mueller
2001-12-09 13:57             ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-12-11 17:45           ` Michal Nowak
2001-12-03 14:52       ` Ted Dennison
2001-12-12 21:56       ` John Kern
2002-02-26  2:22       ` Michael Card
2002-02-26  4:12         ` Jim Rogers
2002-02-27  1:23           ` Adrian Hoe
2002-02-27 17:51           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-02-28 17:00             ` Richard Riehle
2002-02-28 21:24               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-02-28 17:45             ` Michal Nowak
2002-02-28 18:53               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-02-28 19:24                 ` Ed Falis
2002-03-01  0:52                   ` Adrian Hoe
2002-03-01 18:11                     ` Pascal Obry
2002-03-02  1:20                       ` Adrian Hoe
2002-02-28 21:43                 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-01  5:18                 ` Richard Riehle
2002-03-01  5:23                   ` Dave Poirier
2002-03-01 16:45                   ` Michal Nowak
2002-03-01 11:10                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-03  8:28                   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-05 18:40                   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2002-03-01 16:48                 ` Michal Nowak
2002-03-01 17:26                 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-03-03  8:26                   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-03 13:28                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-03-03 17:47                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-03-04 16:30                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-04 19:28                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-03-05 17:03                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2002-03-05  1:41                         ` Richard Riehle
2002-03-05 21:35                           ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-05 22:04                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-06  8:33                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-03-06 11:46                               ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-03-06 15:03                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-07 16:08                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-07 16:25                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-09 14:51                                   ` Gary Scott
2002-03-09 15:13                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-09 15:54                                     ` named control statements (was: Future with Ada) Wes Groleau
2002-03-09 16:40                                       ` Gary Scott
2002-03-09 20:53                                       ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-03-06 16:36                               ` Future with Ada Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-06 17:27                                 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-07 16:04                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-07 16:42                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-11 13:52                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-11 20:02                                       ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 23:56                                         ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-12 16:47                                           ` code partitioning (was: Future with Ada) Wes Groleau
2002-03-12 17:56                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-13 13:42                                               ` labeling (was: partitioning (was: Future)) Wes Groleau
2002-03-14 12:46                                                 ` Michal Nowak
2002-03-14 17:27                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-14 20:27                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-15  8:00                                                 ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2002-03-15 15:10                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-14 15:27                                               ` code partitioning (was: Future with Ada) John R. Strohm
2002-03-15 14:15                                                 ` Ted Dennison
2002-03-16 10:37                                                   ` Kevin Cline
2002-03-13 12:26                                           ` Future with Ada John English
2002-03-13 14:15                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-14  3:34                                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-14 15:36                                                 ` John R. Strohm
2002-03-14 17:43                                                   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-14 11:59                                               ` John English
2002-03-13 15:16                                           ` Kevin Cline
2002-03-13 17:55                                             ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-14 15:21                                           ` John R. Strohm
2002-03-07 20:52                                   ` Kevin Cline
2002-03-07 22:12                                     ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-03-11 18:43                                       ` Kevin Cline
2002-03-11 22:53                                         ` Chad R. Meiners
2002-03-06 17:07                               ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-05  3:45                         ` Brian Rogoff
2002-03-04  1:45                     ` Eric Merritt
2002-03-04  6:03                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-04 13:44                         ` Eric Merritt
2002-03-04 16:01                           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-04 18:14                             ` Eric Merritt
2002-03-04 16:46                           ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2002-03-04 17:08                             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-03-04 18:15                             ` Eric Merritt
2002-03-05 16:54                             ` Pascal Obry
2002-03-05 17:26                               ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2002-03-04 20:06                     ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-02-27  1:30         ` Adrian Hoe
2002-02-27 20:09         ` Ken Pinard
2002-03-09 20:19         ` Richard Riehle
2001-11-11 20:13 ` Ehud Lamm
2001-11-11 22:32   ` Michal Nowak
2001-11-13 21:43     ` Maciej Sobczak
2001-11-14 16:26       ` Don [this message]
2001-11-14 19:32       ` Mark Lundquist
2001-11-14 19:46         ` David C. Hoos
2001-11-15  0:02           ` Mark Lundquist
2001-11-24 23:21           ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-14 21:22         ` Ted Dennison
2001-11-14 21:50       ` Michal Nowak
2001-11-15  7:39         ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-15 14:59           ` Marin David Condic
2001-11-15 15:44             ` Preben Randhol
2001-11-15 16:00         ` John English
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-03-06  6:05 Christoph Grein
2002-03-06  9:24 ` Pascal Obry
2002-03-06 16:43   ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-06 15:05 ` Marin David Condic
2002-03-07 13:51   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-06  7:14 Christoph Grein
2002-03-06  8:43 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-03-07  7:49 Christoph Grein
2002-03-07 14:06 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-08  7:24 Christoph Grein
2002-03-08 13:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-08 16:08 ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-11 12:39   ` John English
2002-03-08 16:34 ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-03-08 19:41   ` Wes Groleau
2002-03-09  1:21     ` Jeffrey Carter
2002-03-11  5:37 Christoph Grein
2002-03-11 13:28 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-03-11 12:56 Christoph Grein
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